15 votes

My State Legislator wants to know how we can secede, need your thoughts please

I just got off the phone with my State Legislator and we talked about all these petitions and how they wont work but are waking people up to the idea. He wants me to put together an email about how we are going to do this and what it should say. I am not good at that kind of stuff but I know someone here is, can you please help?

I do know that seceding should include trading with neighboring states, helping neighboring states militarily if need be and having open borders with neighboring states.

my email is knarfxii@yahoo.com

thank you

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Lets try nullification first.

First...

you have to establish the moral high ground in the eyes of local society and the greater surrounding society. A mere declaration of secession, even if done formally by the state legislature and governor, is meaningless unless you have recruited the critical mass of sympathetic companions who are both willing and logistically prepared to fight and die by your side enforcing the separation.

Also, non-combatants in the region that is separating must be willing and logistically capable of withstanding the hardships that are part-and-parcel of societal upheaval and reestablishing functioning societal structures and equilibrium.

Establishing the moral high ground means a coherent highly visible message of specific grievances that have been unaddressed or responded to in a manner hostile to the perceived rights and freedoms of persons and communities. Legitimizing these grievances requires one-by-one challenges that are clear and understandable by the companions to the cause that are hope to be recruited.

I doubt very much any kind of critical mass of citizens are ready just yet to sacrifice their livelihoods, families, possessions and lives in such a hasty manner. Most want to try other avenues first.

The very first step in building a consensus of moral high ground in our current system, short of a traumatic upheaval caused by a rapid economic collapse, will occur by repeatedly challenging the federal on 10th amendment grounds and for the federal to repeatedly cross the line in denying any claimed independence of action. And the news and nature of these events must be successfully articulated to the society.

All of this is going to be a long messy ordeal and very potentially bloody and with a good chance of not being on the winning side in either the mind of society or on the battlefield...

.
~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Bump

for relevancy!

A good question

A good question is why is this even gaining traction? Is it because Texans et. al. are racist? Of course not, though it will be painted that way.

The reason behind this is because the people have lost faith in the federal government. Cognitive dissonance can last only so long, and people's subconscious minds are revolting.

I believe the awakening started with the Bush bailouts and the seeds of doubt are now beginning to mature.

There's only one mistake you can make..

DO NOT ASK FOR PERMISSION.

Anything else is fairly straightforward really.

Secession is NOT the answer

Secession is NOT the answer right now! States need to utilize NULLIFICATION. I bet 90% of states' problems would go away with proper nullification of unconstitutional actions. The only need for secession is if a state no longer likes CONSTITUTIONAL actions (which there are very few of)...

"You must be frank with the world; frankness is the child of honesty and courage...Never do anything wrong to make a friend or keep one...Above all do not appear to others what you are not" - Robert E. Lee, CSA

You can't know that.

First of all the constitution either gave you the tyrannical government you have today or it was unable to prevent it, in either case it's unfit to fulfill it's purpose and should be abolished and with it the principle of involuntary services of any kind.

Second of all, I'm sorry but you aren't smart enough(no single person is) to know the answer to today's problems with tyranny. Secession might not be the answer for you, but it is for many other people, why do you want to deny them the freedom to lead their lives as they choose?

And lastly if you ask me, anything that diminishes the power of this monster is a step in the right direction so I fully support state, town, local community and even personal secessions. But please don't ask for permission, just do it.

And that is why this is a learning tool

As many point out, you don't ask permission to secede, you just do it. What this initiative does is make people aware that it's a POSSIBILITY. That is the only proximal and beneficial outcome.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

There has to be a State convention first

First, there has to be a State Convention and adopting a resolution to secede. Once that happens, the people from your state votes and to make it good, if 2/3 ratify the resolution to secede. Then it is binding and the state secedes by setting up a currency backed by a commodity such as silver or gold. Getting your national guard on high alert for possible invasion.

great

comment

South Carolina was the first to secede in 1852

It is worth reading their Declaration of Secession. While the insertion of slave ownership into the Declaration is abhorrent, reading the context and construction of the Declaration is a worthy endeavor. Similar language could be used today to lay out the grievances of a state wishing to secede.

-------------------

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D. 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

And now the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act.
In the year 1765, that portion of the British Empire embracing Great Britain, undertook to make laws for the government of that portion composed of the thirteen American Colonies. A struggle for the right of self-government ensued, which resulted, on the 4th of July, 1776, in a Declaration, by the Colonies, "that they are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; and that, as free and independent States, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do."

They further solemnly declared that whenever any "form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government." Deeming the Government of Great Britain to have become destructive of these ends, they declared that the Colonies "are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved."

In pursuance of this Declaration of Independence, each of the thirteen States proceeded to exercise its separate sovereignty; adopted for itself a Constitution, and appointed officers for the administration of government in all its departments - Legislative, Executive and Judicial. For purposes of defense, they united their arms and their counsels; and, in 1778, they entered into a League known as the Articles of Confederation, whereby they agreed to entrust the administration of their external relations to a common agent, known as the Congress of the United States, expressly declaring, in the first Article "that each State retains its sovereignty, freedom and independence, and every power, jurisdiction and right which is not, by this Confederation, expressly delegated to the United States in Congress assembled."

Under this Confederation the war of the Revolution was carried on, and on the 3rd of September, 1783, the contest ended, and a definite Treaty was signed by Great Britain, in which she acknowledged the independence of the Colonies in the following terms:

"ARTICLE 1 - His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz: New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that he treats with them as such; and for himself, his heirs and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof."

Thus were established the two great principles asserted by the Colonies, namely: the right of a State to govern itself; and the right of a people to abolish a Government when it becomes destructive of the ends for which it was instituted. And concurrent with the establishment of these principles, was the fact, that each Colony became and was recognized by the mother Country a FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATE.
In 1787, Deputies were appointed by the States to revise the Articles of Confederation, and on 17th September, 1787, these Deputies recommended for the adoption of the States, the Articles of Union, known as the Constitution of the United States.

The parties to whom this Constitution was submitted, were the several sovereign States; they were to agree or disagree, and when nine of them agreed the compact was to take effect among those concurring; and the General Government, as the common agent, was then invested with their authority.

If only nine of the thirteen States had concurred, the other four would have remained as they then were - separate, sovereign States, independent of any of the provisions of the Constitution. In fact, two of the States did not accede to the Constitution until long after it had gone into operation among the other eleven; and during that interval, they each exercised the functions of an independent nation.
By this Constitution, certain duties were imposed upon the several States, and the exercise of certain of their powers was restrained, which necessarily implied their continued existence as sovereign States. But to remove all doubt, an amendment was added, which declared that the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people. On the 23d May, 1788, South Carolina, by a Convention of her People, passed an Ordinance assenting to this Constitution, and afterwards altered her own Constitution, to conform herself to the obligations she had undertaken.

Thus was established, by compact between the States, a Government with definite objects and powers, limited to the express words of the grant. This limitation left the whole remaining mass of power subject to the clause reserving it to the States or to the people, and rendered unnecessary any specification of reserved rights.

We hold that the Government thus established is subject to the two great principles asserted in the Declaration of Independence; and we hold further, that the mode of its formation subjects it to a third fundamental principle, namely: the law of compact. We maintain that in every compact between two or more parties, the obligation is mutual; that the failure of one of the contracting parties to perform a material part of the agreement, entirely releases the obligation of the other; and that where no arbiter is provided, each party is remitted to his own judgment to determine the fact of failure, with all its consequences.

In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows:

"No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."
This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."
These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy.

Sectional interest and animosity will deepen the irritation, and all hope of remedy is rendered vain, by the fact that public opinion at the North has invested a great political error with the sanction of more erroneous religious belief.

We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.

Adopted December 24, 1860

thank

you

I would suggest:

That anyone that has the fortitude to tackle this collaboration refer to the founders and the documents they forged. I believe the answer is in there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my country
I am appalled by my government

Well, seceding would only

Well, seceding would only work if you actually have your own currency. Seceding won't protect a state from the collapse of the US dollar, unless you find a way to adopt your own currency.

Any email, should atleast take this into consideration.

Kathleen Gee's picture

You could still use FRNs as an official currency

They're the official currency in Ecuador, of all places, I think.

"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid." - Ronald Reagan

Public Relations Consulting

How about seceding from the federal reserve

How about seceding from the federal reserve

scawarren's picture

Brian, what state are you in?

Brian, what state are you in?

Individualism-
To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.
e.e. cummings

South Carolina

He is my legislator, he supported Sound money legislation because I called him and asked him. He actually listens to me

scawarren's picture

Tom Davis?

Tom Davis?

Individualism-
To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.
e.e. cummings

no Tom is a st senator

Im talking about Dennis Moss

scawarren's picture

Okay, sorry for the

Okay, sorry for the confusion. I've got to agree w/ user CSA1861 and say seceding isn't the answer but nullification of unconstitutional federal legislation is a better path to pursue.

Individualism-
To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.
e.e. cummings

thanks

I just need an awesome email to send him, I only want to send one and I have to make it count!

Texas has the Answers...

The Republic of Texas Initiative has been a strong one here for the past century or so. Our State Legislature has jointly issued several bills that declare the Annexation Treaty void due to certain qualifications that have never been met.

You might try looking for some advice at the following websites:

www.texasrepublic.info
www.texasnationalist.com

The .info site has quite a few links to Legislature passed bills that if the governor were to enforce them would effectively result in a free and independent texas.

The other thing that the Republic of Texas has going for it is that there are existing documents (from when Texas was its own nation) that can act as a template for any state's national constitution or the like.

The first thing to do is get off the financial grid. At the state level, pass bills that validate and legalize silver and/or gold as officially recognized monies. The texas republic coin is actually quite beautiful, and if I could exchange for them individually, I'd get one or two.

The next thing to do is to make sure that the state's economy is strong enough to be independent for a while. If necessary, it may be important to do what the nation's merchants did after the revolutionary war to get the national economy off the ground. Refuse to sell imports.

Once that's determined, start looking at the military structure, I think. Are state militias sufficiently armed?

Also look to South Carolina's history. They were the First to Secede before the War of Northern Aggression.

Legally, I think it goes as follows: It's similar to the Amendment Process for the Constitution.

However it comes up from the State Legislature, through the Governor, etcetera, it should eventually be presented in ballot form to the people of the state. There is a special vote that is held to determine if the people of the state wish to secede.

Once that's determined, I believe its presented on a national ballot, when the people of the other states may allow or disallow the secession to take place. But again, this requires a bit more research; I only know the basic skeletal structure, and even then, some major bones might be missing.

The Founders of this great nation abhorred tyrrany and loved liberty.