19 votes

Dear Religious Right

Note: this post is not anti-Christian, please read the entire article before criticizing. I'm a pretty devout Christian and I happen to agree with this article for the most part. Learn and listen to this perspective! thanks. It should also be noted that the term "Religious right" is very relative. Context is key.

via Muslims4Liberty
Hello average GOP values based voter, I wanted to take a little time after the election to thank you. You have handed the US another 4 years of Obama, and as a Libertarian I appreciate that. Your failures may possibly spell out to our party’s future success as you continue to stick your head in the sand and drive away voters from your party.

Now some may see this statement as harsh, which it is, and it should be. Sometimes, when dealing with the pathologically delusional you have to be firm and direct. A quick slap in the face to bring them back to reality, and remind them what planet they actually live on. A wake up call to let them know that culture war, class war, and advocating US imperialism are no longer viable strategies for carrying national elections.

The failures of 2012 are entirely of the GOP’s own making, particularly those among them who see themselves as the “moral majority”. That evangelical and conservative jewish block that the talking heads do all they can to court 365 days a year. A portion of our country that wants to legislate its own moral views on the rest of us, and outlaw or stifle the rights of other religious traditions in the name of “patriotism” or “national security”. They are NOT irrationally targeting anyone different from them, they will argue, “we are only trying to save America”.

Continue reading here: http://www.muslims4liberty.org/dear-religious-right/



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Frankly, dumb

Frankly, I think this was a dumb article. It's pro-Republican, and they have always been bad guys, just like the Democrats. If I read it correctly, it was specifically pro-Bush, pro-McCain, and pro-Romney. Everyone of those is a traitor and a creep.

Why would you even recommend reading it?

No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul

pro-Whom?

Dear Spock

In reading the article in full myself, I agree that the OP is saying liberty loving Muslim voters were inclined to the message Bush gave in the 2000 election but not that they were blind Bushies or tribal GOP voters.

The irony for Muslims is that the liberal equality doctrine is taken to extremes and opens the door wide for much that anyone who submits to and loves above all else Almighty God, Creator of the heavens and the earth and all besides would be appalled by. Nonetheless, this is oft the concept which has allowed for freedom of religious expression where Muslims targeted.

Similarly, the tremendous overlap between Muslims (lit. One who submits to the will of God) and conservatism in politics in America is undermined by the fact that much Islamophobic funding originates on the right..

No matter. If one believes in God one asks of Him first and last. Muslims supporting liberty should, again, not be blind supporters. Nonetheless much is found to support. Ron Paul being a beautiful example of being unafraid to speak truth to power.

Indeed the integrity that radiates from Ron Paul - and many staunch supporters of liberty - in never bending knee nor back to the powers that be (in the form of the banking cartels, AIPAC or any populist tilt where it shreds liberty) resonates with all who love truth and justice.

Muslims who see and understand liberty in action, in its conforming and being a demonstration of Faith and its duties, support liberty with an open heart. If one loves God and hopes to return to Him in a happy state, fighting to lift the yoke of statism, fiat money fraud and good neighbourliness need no encouragement.

Virtue not religion

The conservative movement needs to be a movement that promotes individual virtue rather than religious convictions. Forget, revelation, Zionism, and this incessant focus on Judeo-Christian values and the supposed Christian roots of America. Focus on individual responsibility, voluntary charity, and thrift as enduring American values. This is where the Founders were.

Speak about hot button issues through the lens of virtue rather than religion.

The only people that push

The only people that push religion on these forums are athiests.

You have no idea how it is to work your butt off, and have a bunch of trained marxists try to stab you in the back on your most cherished beliefs - which you NEED to have life.

And it isn't even what you signed up to work for. And what the forums are suppose to be for. Inclusive, not exclusion.

Yes, I'm not putting up with this in 4 years. Ron Paul was a special case.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Cyril's picture

Out of mere curiosity...

"The only people that push religion on these forums are atheists."

You make an interesting point. And I really don't know - yet, if ever - whether you are right or wrong.

But I have a follow up question :

Here is an example of an unambiguous post against atheism - http://www.dailypaul.com/118233/atheism-is-a-fraud

Now, I would like to know, out of mere curiosity, and ever since the Daily Paul has been brought into existence, what are exactly the proportions of :

1. unambiguously pro-atheism and anti-religions posts
2. unambiguously pro-religions and anti-atheism posts
3. unambiguously neutral posts (e.g., posts discussing the last spot price of silver, and other silly things like that ;)

I ask genuinely. I don't claim it is easy to figure out.

But I am quite curious about it.

For instance, here's one post of mine which doesn't fit in either of the above two (for it does cite a Bible passage, that I find positive personally, but it makes no claim, has no intent, to call for people "to fight" atheist views otherwise).

http://www.dailypaul.com/263613/ezekiel-332-6-is-more-curren...

Peace.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Let me reread the last half

Let me reread the last half of your post and reply to it later.

But to the first half:

It's a well known fact that a lot of time people bait others into argument, and then blame them for the argument. It happens everywhere. One of those disgusting things in life.

I'm not claiming, nor do I care, if someone posts a thread that uses their point of view to explain something. A mere thread: I am an atheist, whatever, and here is why is not what I am saying is a baiting thread. My point is, most of the religious posts you see are replies to baiting threads. Those almost always come from athiests.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Pro-Life?

I am pro-choice for a very simple reason. In this modern world, a woman can buy a pregnancy test at the dollar store. They are accurate within one day of conception . ALL women experience the occasional late period. Now, many of them take the home test and are either happy or shocked when it is positive. Often, within a few days or weeks of the positive test, the period starts. These women were pregnant and now they aren't. Do you think they reach into the toilet and pull out the glob of blood screaming "my baby died" - ridiculous. Do any of these so-called religious people want to put this in a casket and hold a funeral for it? Should we begin burying these blood clots and putting up headstones? We all know intuitively that this product of conception is not a baby. Get over it and move on with your life.

Where to begin?

1) Pregnancy tests are NOT accurate 1 day after conception. Typically, the most sensitive (the kind that you cannot get from the dollar store) might be accurate 10 days after conception.

2) A chemical pregnancy - the kind you describe above (where there's a positive test and a period a few days later) does not result in implantation or the beginning of anything that could be a baby. It is simply an event where a woman ovulates, the egg is fertilized, but never implants and is expunged in a period. This delays a period by a few days because the fertilized egg will immediately begin producing pregnancy hormones.

I am a woman and a mother and have gone through three miscarriages. I knew I was pregnant, I felt bonded to those babies and I mourned their loss privately (I did not have caskets or funerals or anything like that).

The truth is that by the time most surgical abortions are performed (before 10 weeks), there is a *baby* with a beating heart and brainwaves. It has implanted and begun the process of growing to the point where it can safely enter the world. It is not a glob of cells or a blood clot. Saying such things makes you sound like a very ill-informed individual.

I agree there is something about the naming of pregnant vs. not pregnant that is subjective, nothing in what you just said provides any justification for supporting the choice to murder an unborn child.

(for the record - I am not militantly anti-abortion...I tend towards thinking these days that the gov't should stay out of pregnancy and birth as much as possible, I just do not want to be forced to facilitate another woman's decision to end a baby's life)

I don't know why so many

I don't know why so many libertarians constantly try to alienate the "religious right" and social conservatives. Whether you realize it or not, many social conservatives supported Ron Paul in the Republican primary. Ron Paul himself has several socially conservative views, particularly on abortion. Ron Paul has many supporters who are paleo-conservatives who oppose the Patriot Act and NDAA but take more conservative positions on issues like abortion and gay marriage. I don't see why libertarians constantly try to alienate these people, rather than focusing on areas of agreement and working together.

not meant to alienate

I can understand that the term "religious right" is a very broad term and can be interpreted in many different ways. But you are definitely not the type of person that it's addressed to. I agree it's hard to figure out a label for that type of person. But the people the article is talking about are the ones who war monger for religious reasons, alienate minorities and are so paranoid that they infringe on other peoples rights. They have caused immense damage to this country. It's not meant to put pro-lifers in with these types of people; some pro-lifers are like that and some are not.

Then pick another "term",

Then pick another "term", because it's bigotry

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

This post is not alienating

This post is not alienating social conservatives who recognize the state is not God or the church. You can be socially conservative, like I said, just so long as you don't force it upon others therefore depriving them of their free will.
We should however, condemn social conservatives (yet another relative label!) who constantly advocate racism and warfare in the middle east and think religious freedom is only for Christians. You ought to understand why Muslims are so angered and hurt by these types of social conservatives!

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Anonymous
http://youtu.be/cjkvC9qr0cc

Sure aliented me. The people

Sure aliented me. The people you insulted are the ones that determine you are insulting.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I have a couple relatives just like you.

Born again Christians that think they're oppressed in some way, very easily offended by everything. They can't be happy being Christians, but need everyone else to adhere to they're beliefs.
They NEED government to recognize their belief system in order to feel that they are living in line with God.

The thing that sticks out to me the most, anyone who believes in Jesus, no matter what laws or commandments were broken, will meet God when they die.
Everyone else, no matter what good they do, gets to shovel coal for eternity.

Now you have a reason to feel alienated, but not by the OP.

It will be extra divided next election

You don't have any relatives like me, because you know absolutely nothing about me.

If you want to go through the divide the liberty movement again next election, then go ahead and use this term. But next election, I will be working specifically to throw people out that are using it myself. Just like they're trying. Considering America is mostly a Christian country founded by Christians, that's the only rational thing to do.

It will be extra divided next election unless you drop the Christian attacks.

And remember, Rand Paul is not going to be an atheist friendly candidate to rally around.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I know enough to see you are

easily offended. Someone uses "religious right" as a broad term, referring to those in that group as people who generally want to govern from the church.
This "offends" you and makes you feel like a victim of bigotry.

I am not an atheist, I do believe in a higher power. I'm actually baptized catholic.
A candidates religion is the absolute LEAST important thing to me in my decision to vote for them.
Governing from the church is not anything I can vote for.
The church would infringe on my personal behavior excessively.

I'm sorry you feel that way

Though I am a bit confused on why you would be. I thought people in the liberty movement (Religious or not) were beyond the right vs. left paradigm. And anyway, as I've stated before "religious right" is a terribly relative term. Can't you see this post is talking about the neoconservative theocratic sort of Christians? I don't think you nor I fall in that category.

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Anonymous
http://youtu.be/cjkvC9qr0cc

Well, I consider myself to be

Well, I consider myself to be a social conservative, and I don't advocate racism, warfare, and taking away religious freedom from anybody. I do however, oppose the idea that social libertarianism should extend to killing babies. I don't have a problem with libertarian views on issues like gambling and drug use, but libertarianism shouldn't extend to killing people. When people bash the "religious right" I assume they're criticizing pro life policies, since the religious right opposes abortion rights.

You're the type of social conservative

Who's respectable and I'd probably agree with you on many issues. However, truth be known most social conservatives are not like you. Sad, but true. Thanks for sharing your perspective. It's a pity the terms "religious right" and "social conservative" are so relative these days. I hope you and others reclaim the term in the future. Ron Paul social conservatives are honorable individuals, though I'd disagree with them on certain issues. :)

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Anonymous
http://youtu.be/cjkvC9qr0cc

Never should have been deleted

Thank you for reposting!
Anyone offended by what was said in the article is probably one of those right wing religious extremists who the author was talking about. These are the people who've been sabotaging the Republican party for decades. The author is against religious extremists, not against Christianity.
I know the author and for your information I'm a Muslim too. We have the highest regard for Jesus (peace be upon him) his holy mother the Virgin Mary, and all biblical prophets. We respect the Christian and Jewish religions. Most of the biblical prophets are also mentioned in the Quran and are given the highest praises as messengers and prophets of God. Muslims believe that the best woman to ever step foot on this earth is the Virgin Mary. We believe that she is even better than the prophet Muhammads mother, wife, daughter. Just look in the Quran at Chapter 3, Verse 42.
The author is Libertarian, not a Democrat. He appreciates the way the religious right in the Republican party have been acting self righteous and have been turning the people off from the GOP. So where are these peole going to go? Do yo think they'll become Democrats? Not really. They may choose to be Independent and flip flop, or they may choose to join the Libertarian cause. Either way its a plus for the libertarians. So yes, thank you to the religious right for helping bring the downfall of the GOP. America might be abetter place because of it.

Thank you

for the wonderful comment.

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Anonymous
http://youtu.be/cjkvC9qr0cc

Ramyos...EXACTLY the Kind Of Posts We Need

...and especially in light of Ron Paul's farewell speech. I recently found an article on Islam that would be eye-opening to anyone with an open mind.

While many things have been less than ideal about governance in the Middle East, who can possibly say that everything has been right in governance in this country. What we are allowing to happen in the Middle East is against everything I , as a Christian, believe and I am outraged and feel an enormous amount of compassion. For that reason I have been a sponge for researching truth as opposed to the lies spread.

I regret that I lost the article I found or I would post it. The history of the people of the Middle East was told in a manner most people have not heard. When I was a little girl I was told that there was this place on earth where all religions lived side by side in tolerance and peace. That place was called Israel. It put a positive slant on what I might otherwise have felt toward the Jewish people. While I hardly lump the actions of Israel as definitive of the jewish people, I found that place called Israel was anything but how it had been depicted.

In this lost article I heard another story. A story of how "the people" and sometimes with the absolute support of the so-called dictators lived side by side with mutual acceptance, tolerance and neighborly support. Was it perfect and not from time to time interrupted by radicals of which we have in all religions? No it was not perfect, but it more nearly approximated what I had once thought of the so-called "Holy Lands."

I encourage everyone to think about what Ron Paul said. Do some research. And, for those who call themselves Christians, think what we are doing to the land holy to a lot of different faiths. Ask yourself WWJD. This is the land where he walked and talked. Even those sites of religious historical significance are no longer called sacred to say nothing of his biological roots. What we are destroying can never be built again.

My read of Middle Eastern citizens of the US is that they are, like the Japanese of another war, far more forgiving than many Christians. And, they are my brothers and sisters...we share a planet even if we seldom consider that.

fonta

Muslims would be good GOP members cause they are Conservatives.

1) They love God
2) They are a moral people.
3) They believe in Jesus as the Messiah (Al-Masih)(Sunnis)
4) They believe in the prophets like Noah, Jonah,Moses(Musa)
5) They like praying to God.
6) They believe in the Last Day
7) They are not for abortions
8) They certainly are not for gay marriage.
9) They believe Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed cause of the sodomites.
10)They are fiscally conservative. Back home in the ME, some only have rugs with a pillows for a living room.
11) They do not approve of sex before marriage.
12) They are very family oriented.
13) They believe the man should be the head of the family.
14) They do not believe in bowing to idols.
15) They have friends who have lots of oil.

This is why I refuse to

This is why I refuse to believe the urban legend that Obama is a Muslim. Muslims are far too conservative to be like him.

^^Sounds like the mormons

Translation:

I believe that it's the people having sex and smoking pot who are truly free

Seems legit

Nothing says freedom like becoming a slave to your body.

Maybe to you that's not free

And I'm not agreeing with everything there, but I wouldn't say that's necessarily "unfree" to be a Muslim. Those are their beliefs and we should respect that. The Islam faith's views on modesty for women is very admirable. Our society strongly condones sexual objectifying of women, on the other hand.

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Anonymous
http://youtu.be/cjkvC9qr0cc

Their god has a little "g" and a big "D" for Demon.

What are they conserving?

Conservation of Moloch? Allah? What is the demon's name? What is the difference who, how many or if it is an entire legion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch

Conservative traditions are not what makes one a conservative Christian. I am sorry to let all of you catholics and good baptists down off your high-horse.

But just because you went to mass or Sunday service and dropped your money in the plate/tin... well you may still, even likely, be going straight to Hell.

This is what cults do, both big and small ones... they make lists for you to follow and respect. Christ calls these lists the "Commandments of men" Matthew 15:9, commandments and traditions of a false church, a cult, wicked priests and wicked pastors.

Some cults are big some are small time but it is all about pleasing man or a group of men. And most all modern churches are this way, wicked, without exception.

"Threshing" is not "plowing" as some of these evil brute beasts claim while they at the same time pretend to read and understand scripture in 3-4 ancient languages (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, etc) while demon-strating that they have not even a grasp of English (or can use Webster's dictionary).

Those lists that they make for you become traditions apart from God even if they were of God's word; because without Faith, Hope and especially Charity/Love (1 Corinthians 13) all of the cheek kissing and praise from your cult leader; whether a pastor, priest or other sinner; well they are all just brute beasts/deceivers apart from God and there is no secret "code", approval or "Get out of jail (hell) free pass" that your little pope-man can give you that Christ might accept as valid.

In fact that approval or pass from a man will likely be a "free ticket to hell" if your little deceptive pastor-man who nods his head to you turns out to be a demon worshipper in the end: 2 Peter 2.

Read your bibles and call your pastor and priest a liar when he fibs against God. They all do. Every one of them big and small. And it is your job and responsibility as a Christian (a real Christian if you are in fact one at all) to contend for the faith and shout the most wicked down when they sin.

When these wicked ones who are worse than the unbelievers accuse you, well you should know and take comfort in Jude 1:9-10... THE WORD OF GOD, is all you need to defend yourself from the wicked pretenders...

--------
Jude 1:9-10

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

.

I May Have Misread Your Post

...and am sorry. The issue of Muslims and the Middle East and our intervention and militarism is a big issue for me. I see now that you were referring to the Christian labels people hang around their necks and then either do not understand the labels or live up to them...or the labels were filled with double meanings in the first place.

I jumped to the conclusion tht you were somehow implying that Islam's God was "g" and that the "D" was for them.

Due to Sierra's post I went back and reread yours and see that you merely jumped to one of your issues (which is a good one)ie "conservative traditions (or labels) not making one a conservative Christian."

So I apologize and...Peace. I am always willing to admit it when I am in error and, in fact, am happy when it is pointed out.

fonta

Good post Appeal. For many

Good post Appeal. For many this is way over their heads.