16 votes

Ron Paul rejects Third Party strategy 10/15/2012

CSPAN interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n6gXbqIWDE&feature=youtu.be

21:55

Question: "Do you think the libertarians will take the place of the Republicans as one of the major parties?"

Answer: "No, I don't because Republicans and Democrats are in charge and they're one party and they have control of the system . . . (as a libertarian) I wouldn't have been in the debates, I wouldn't have been able to get any coverage, and you can't get on the ballots because of the system it's very biased . . under the rules today it's virtually impossible to compete (with the Dems/Reps) The only way you can do it is if you have correct ideas you infiltrate both the Democrat and Republican party."

. . sounds like the Rand Paul strategy to me, another nail in the coffin of the Gary Johnson trolls and the Rand haters.




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He addressed this question

He addressed this question YEARS ago. He was right then and hes right now. The LP is and will be corrupted just like the other two major parties (ie Bob Barr), so using a third party is a giant waste of time. Third parties will never get the same respect as the other two, both in the eyes of the media and the voters. To deny this is to deny we are a nation of sheep. Welcome to reality.

Both parties

What are we doing to infiltrate the Democrat party?

Will we have a liberty candidate to support on the left and one to support on the right?

I think our Liberty movement needs to operate independent of the duopoly and have one candidate on each side in 2016.

The problem is that I don't know of any libertarian thinking lefties to support...

I think his argument is that the

2 major parties are the only ones worth going after but that doesn't mean that it's always wise strategy to split our forces. When it comes to running for president the Republican party was selected because it is the most vulnerable so all effort needs to go there. We definitely still need to convince liberals to join the effort and both parties are fine for liberty candidates running for house and senate, federal and state.

I'm in favor of taking all

I'm in favor of taking all the roads to challenge the duopoly. Being Ron Paul Republicans, Ron Paul Democrats, Ron Paul Independents or Ron Paul Libertarians, whatever.

I've always been in favor of taking over the duopoly and using the independent or third party route just to provide for competition to put the freedom ideas if either the GOP or Dems shut us down.

Listen, I think there's no right way to acheive freedom via the ballot box. Some suggest going the Ron Paul way, others the independent way. I'm extremely open to taking over not only the GOP but also the Dems. I'm also in favor of using the third party route just to have a freedom option to compete against the duopoly while continuing to take over the 2 parties.

Let me see if I understand this correctly...

...the Republicans and Democrats are too powerful for a third party to rise up and challenge them, but not too powerful to head off being overtly infiltrated? I'm not buying it.

My focus is now on preparing my local community for the impending collapse. The Ron Paul revolution was a good cause, but it was too little too late.

that's actually how every political revolution works

eventually the people learn how to beat them at their own game.

watch presentation by g edward griffin, "an idea who's time has come" for history on this.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzhiSFZp_7U

.

exhibit A

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Thank You

Hopefully this puts an end to the debate about the validity of the LP. Bottom Line, leave the LP help us in the Republican Party

No, thanks.

No, thanks.

Jason

Happy Libertarian

Actually Ron Paul seemed to

Actually Ron Paul seemed to be suggesting going into the Democratic or the Republican parties as opposed to going third party. I am LP, but I vote for liberty Republicans. If I had to choose one of the major parties to work in, I would work within the Democratic party. I prefer to work in the LP because I enjoy libertarians more and it is important that the LP stays to always be some push back for liberty.

I was an advocate for voting for Gary Johnson. I also was (am)

in favor of the Libertarian Party getting 5% of the vote so that they can be taken seriously at the next election, have ballot access and qualify for matching funds, to try to change that monolpoly that the two major parties enjoy.

BUT I am a registered Republican, that has not changed, and of course I advocate changing the party from the inside. I always have.

When the Republicans allow the NeoCons to ambush the primaries and the convention and give us a NeoCon candidate who is virtually identical to the Democrat - I would advocate voting for the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson, in this case, in a heartbeat.

Only a FOOL votes for whatever the Republicans give us - even if it stinks to high heaven. And only a fool writes in the name of a NONcandidate, who never asked you to, when it will not be counted or reported.

And if the big money NeoCons continue to put a stranglehold on the Republican Party, and resist change, no one should continue to bash his head against a wall, instead of looking to the Libertarian option.

The Whigs

The Whigs probably thought they would be a national party forever...

"One resists the invasion of armies; one does not resist the invasion of ideas" Victor Hugo

Michael Nystrom's picture

Of course I have all the respect in the world for Ron Paul

but I disagree. He's talking as if nothing ever changes, and nothing ever will, as if this arrangement is set in stone now and forever. And I can understand why he believes this: He's been in this system for 35 years or more, banging his head against the same wall. It never moves and it never changes.

But eventually, everything changes. John Runnings was a Seattle activist when I was in college there at the University of Washington. He had an old Pinto, that was painted with all kinds of protests, as well as a big sign on top. He used to walk around campus with a giant world on a stick. I remember seeing him when I was eating lunch. Everyone thought he was a kook.

So imagine my surprise when I went to the Berlin Wall museum in 1998, to find a big display dedicated to Mr. Runnings, the Wall Walker, hero, and a video of him walking around on top of the Berlin Wall, long before it ever fell.

Like the Democratic/Republican Duopoly, it looked like that Wall would never fall. It was there, and it looked like it always would be. And then one day, without much warning, it was gone, relegated to the dustbin of history.

Things change, and they change when you least expect them.

Ron Paul is a revolutionary in some respects; In this respect, he's very much for the status quo.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

The first thing I thought

The first thing I thought when reading his statement was: If Gary Johnson can get ballot access in 49 states, then surely the Doc would have been able to get all 50 this time around.

Personally, I think Ron could have given Ross Perot's numbers a run for their money if he had dropped out when that infamous email went out and gone third party.

After seeing what happened at the RNC though, it was clear he had no intention of winning.

You know how much time it

You know how much time it takes up trying to get on the ballot on all 50 States. That's basically all your doing in 3rd party's is working to get on the ballot.

Status quo? Far from it..

He's telling the truth as always. 40 years and where are the Libertarians? He, in a relatively short time, has shaken up the RNC.

He saw the fastest way forward and he was correct.

The Libertarians have garnered more votes this time around than any other time in history. They owe that to Dr.Paul. If he hadn't been in the light, taking the heat, Gary could have never gotten as far as he did.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Thanks for this, Michael.

Thanks for this, Michael. I'm in agreement with you.

Jason

Happy Libertarian

Well stated Mr. Nystrom,

Christina Tobin and her Free and Equal org made a very small crack in the Commission on Presidential Debates this year, and we have a very solid plan to rip that crack open wide in 2016 - add that to the work being done on so many other fronts as well as the most important ingredient - alternative media - I don't think this paradigm will be with us much longer...

Support Liberty Media! http://benswann.com/

I believe we won't turn things around in this country until we first change the media and the culture - please donate to a liberty media creator today! http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/truth-in-media-project

Michael Nystrom's picture

Good!

I'm very happy to hear that. Little cracks, all over, are good. In the blink of an eye, the little cracks become bigger, and in one fell swoop, the whole edifice disappears. Just ask the former East Berliners.

Keep up the good work. I'm happy to keep banging away as well.

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

You better keep at it!:)

You are part of that most important ingredient after all!

Support Liberty Media! http://benswann.com/

I believe we won't turn things around in this country until we first change the media and the culture - please donate to a liberty media creator today! http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/truth-in-media-project

and yet another crack forms...

thank you also Michael for this post. I signed in just to reply to this...something just hit me like a ton of bricks and what a coincidence that i read your post.

what happened in a nutshell is this...

since the election I have been a mouthpiece for action, that we have to take over the GOP and start pushing for Rand in 2016. I am known at work as the "Ron Paul guy", and I literally had establishment republicans running to me asking what do we do after the Romney loss. Most did not like him but voted anyway and couldn't bring themselves to vote GJ in the hopes of reaching 5%...so anyhow, I have been whipping myself into a frenzy as of late even to the point of calling a local radio staion this morning (WPDH) to give them my two cents on the gas rationing that happened in the wake of Hurricane Sandy.

I saw this Politico piece on Rand
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83737_Page3.html

I am floored at his suggestion of how to handle immigration...that as we "assimilate" those that are here...legal applicants have to wait?? no new applicants while we accept into our society those that broke the law to come here?

I am sorry, but being born here into a family of immigrants all who got into line and at any given time throughout my extended family there are those who are contending with the byzantine regulations of the INS...but we follow the rules...and we wait.

Rand Paul would punish my family by suspending new applications and reward those untold millions who ran across the border?

I have given generously to the RP2012 campaign and to the grassroots efforts. Though I may not be as vocal on the DP, in real life it is a different story.

I can no longer support the idea of Rand 2016...or for that matter the GOP.

I am done with that...another crack has formed.

Fictitious labels

Michael. What is our infatuation with imaginary labels, anyway? The only thing it means to be a "Libertarian" or an "Independent" or a "Republiacn" is the meaning you give it. Labels only serve to draw circles around ourselves and paint with a broad brush. They are 100% fiction, anyway. The tribal idea of embracing one illusionary label over other is totally antithitical to freedom and liberty.

"Michael" is even imaginary if you think about. But if you changed your name to "Pete" would your eye color change? Would your DNA change? You are still the same person no matter what.

The beauty of taking over the GOP is that we know the label is just an illusion. One fake name or the other. What do you really care?

Is this discussion really about Republicans, or is it more to do with the ego and make-believe titles? More to do with team-thinking? More to do with polarization instead of unity.

At the end of the day, we are actually all on the same team. Humanity's team.

Correct. It's the ideas that

Correct. It's the ideas that matter, but labels matter to the feeble minded in a democracy and they will continue to vote for people with a D or R next to their names.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Disagree. Labels are not imaginary

They have meaning. They may not have meaning to you, but they do to others. How many people didn't vote for RP because of the (R) after his name? To all of those people, labels have meanings.

Nor is "Michael" imaginary. It is deeply embedded and intertwined with who I am. If my name had been "Pete" from the beginning, my eyes would be the same color, but there would be thousands of subtle differences in my life which would lead me to being a different person.

If you don't think so, imagine if my name were "Snoodle" from the getgo. Would I be a different person? Michael is a popular and well liked name; it is identified with the Archangel Michael, which works to my advantage. My name attracts certain people to me in a way that "Pete" or "Snoodle" would not. So a name is just imaginary.

The beauty of taking over the GOP is that we know the label is just an illusion. One fake name or the other. What do you really care?

Good for you. What do I care? Most of the GOPers I have met in my life are people I don't really like.

Again, the two party system is the status quo, and I'm not interested in working to reinforce the status quo.

Is this discussion really about Republicans, or is it more to do with the ego and make-believe titles? More to do with team-thinking? More to do with polarization instead of unity.

I don't know. You're getting pretty abstract here.

If you're on humanity's team, what use do you have for a political party?

All art is only done by the individual. The individual is all you ever have, and all schools only serve to classify their members as failures. E.H.

I agree with your label

I agree with your label assessment. Labels definitely influence others. However, I have experienced both the best and worst traits of individuals belonging to a particular group. No one group can proclaim they are any better than any other group regardless of religion, race or background. People within groups may feel superior because of the human tendency to forgive or minimize the faults of individuals within their respective group.

"With enough of us, around the world, we’ll not just send a strong message opposing the privatization of knowledge — we’ll make it a thing of the past." ~ Aaron Swartz

I'm not denying names and labels can be influential

Labels, afterall, do have the power that we give it.

Like the fiat USD. It runs on fiction.

If you're on humanity's team, what use do you have for a political party?

Political parties are just a tool, like a hammer or a keyboard. Given my stated goal of retaking the country and bringing it back to the people. Registering R is a strategic incentive. After watching G Edward Griffin's "An Idea Who's Time Has Come," it hit me.

By the way, every D, R, I, L, G is on humanity's team -- they just don't know it. ;)

It will change once the

It will change once the dollar collapses.

More voices and choices are needed and encouraged

There is definately a need for third parties and indy's, in a democratic leaning republic; however, for anyone involved, to think a third party or Indy can win?

This is nieve.

It's important to support more voices and choices, to listen to the issues they haveknowing.. as long as those issues are third party and Indy.. they will remain fringe issues.

I am very grateful to Ron Pual for waking me up and giving me the courage to get in the GOP and bring my issues with me to the table.

The Largest Party

The largesg party is the one that is not formally organized right now, and it is made up of independants and those who are so disgusted with the system that they are not registered to vote or if they are haven't voted in years...this party will win in a land slide when it is formed, organized and overcomes the vote counting rigging!

Yet they are not a party

I was an Indy since 93. Ron Paul convinced me that joining the GOP was the way to materialize our issues in the GOP. When I joined the GOP, my first time joining a manor party, or being involved with a major party.. I had no idea what a committee seat was, because Indy's don't have them. It dawned on me that as an Indy, I was voting for whoever the major parties or third parties gave me. I had no representation. I never saw it like that.

As an Indy grassroots I worked so hard to get ideas heard.. and then I join the GOP and it's like this buffet.. I was so starvednd now I have nmore than enough... SO.. I think I'm backwards of most.. I think most join a major party, don't really get involved, but they begin with a major party and then go Indy.. where I was a Libertarian who went Indy and wound up GOP (whihc I would have never nver joined without Ron Paul's asking me to become a delagte).