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The Bible does not support Zionism (the geopolitical variety anyway)

My liberty friends, you will hear in heightened tones from your "Christian" friends and family that the bible mandates we " christian/ americans" must support the State of Israel. The bible does not endorse any geo-political entity. Please take time to watch and listen to this relatively short documentary and share it with those who are willing to consider that this long held assumption may in fact be a distortion of biblical truth, by those with narrow political and economic interests. This false mantra(meme) exits in many of my generation (50 and up) and is passed down to the next. Please watch> http://vimeo.com/29901084 Political Zionism is racism and "un-christian" because it requires one to show favoritism, which God does not do. **Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism.....
**Acts 10:33-35

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Please back up your claim

Please back up your claim that these three Arab nations "literally machine gunned down" the Palestinians till they went to Israel and/or Palestine. You know very well why this is such an important issue to clarify. What you are doing is spreading the worst of Zionist propaganda, the kind of info that ignorant Christian Zionists are spoonfed by the likes of Hagee and Glenn Beck. I repeat, just read Norman Finkelstein's critique of the notion that Palestinians are really Jordanians or Syrians who fled back to Palestine. Such nonsense.

You're a really good spinmeister

For the second time, I never said they were Syrian or Jordanians. I said they LIVED in those countries who forced them out at gunpoint. Israel accepted them. That's what HAPPENED. If you were ALIVE during that time, you know that because it was in the papers daily. It was on the TV daily.

I'm happy you read a book.

Further, I am no Zionist. I believe in Ron Paul's perfect view of foreign policy which is ITS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

Which leads me to wonder exactly why you care so much. Are you not a Ron Paul supporter? Or are you, but you disagree with Ron Paul on foreign policy?

The vast majority of Jews' DNA in Israel

... traces directly back to the Israelite tribes. Not a minority and not a minority of Africans. But the vast majority of all Jews in Israel with an extremely tight correlation.

It's hard to argue with hard data.

And that "hard data" is what, again?

And that "hard data" is what, again?

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." -John Quincy Adams

Publicly and widely available scientific DNA test results.

That anyone with 5 minutes and half a brain can find.

Most Jews from the Israelite trbie converted to Islam

and settled in Palestine. The Y-DNA of palestinian proved they also came from the jews of ancient times


1. There is not much difference btw Judaism n Islam. Both believe in one unique God. Both eat animals with no blood etc.

2. Only in America it is considered "outrageous" to think that Palestinian of today had connections with the Israeli tribes.

3. Majority of the Israelis living in Israel today are atheist. If you look at history, they came from former Soviet states

4. What happened was, when western european ppl butchered and killed jews throughout the ages, they fled to Ottoman provinces. Majority converted to Islam but some did not.

5. That is why the war in Jerusalem is a war about land and not religion. The Europeans had no right to gave away Palestinian land to the European Jews just because they want to atone their centuries of sin.

The Palestinian did not cause Auswitch. Hitler was not a Palestinian. Why take Palestinian land? Why not create a safe home for Polish Jew in Poland?

That is fantastic for those Jews who converted to be Muslim.

Hooray for them. I don't think it's outrageous. In fact, I couldn't give a r@ts @ss.

It doesn't change the fact that vast majority of Israeli Jews today *ARE* related extremely closely via their Y-DNA to the 12 tribes, regardless if they are Ashkenaz or Sephardim.

Science is science and data is data.

You can talk around it or vote me down all you like, it doesn't change the hard data.

The hard data shows Palestinian has the same right

as a European Jews does to that land.

If you and your family have been living in California for 100 years and all of sudden the Mexicans want to take back California, would you give your property and land to them on the basis of history?

Great for them.

I didn't express anything about foreign policy or property rights. That's a separate matter from what DNA data demonstrates.

The fact is if you say that the Jewish settlers in Israel are not related to the 12 tribes and you are factually INCORRECT.

If you continue to repeat the falsehood about DNA then you are lying.

If Palestineans and Jews in Israel share the same DNA heritage, hooray for them.

As far as foreign policy and property rights go, it's none of my business frankly what the hell goes on there and I'm willing to bet it's not yours either.

Except that most of those

who call themselves 'Jews' these days are not related to the ancient Hebrews in any way. They are not even Semitic, therefore they have no historical or genetic link, or claim, to that land.

Completely false.

Y-DNA testing demonstrates your statement to be completely false. They are of the exact same Y-DNA haplogroups, by and large, which demonstrates that the majority are direct descendants of Israelite tribes.

It's hard to refute hard scientific data.

if African 'tribespeople' can pass the DNA test for Jewish--

lineage, who knows where all the Jews are!

They weren't treated very well in Israel, but they passed the Israelite test--

Wall Street Journal, a casual reading sometime in the 90s; no, I didn't save the article; it was pretty extensive--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

I don't know about that, but I do know about this.

Y-chromosome testing and tracing I believe was discovered first as a viable methodology in 1999 for which it won a nobel prize in 2000.

So I don't know what people thought regarding race and DNA in 1998 or before, but I would imagine it largely irrelevant at this point in light of Y-DNA testing and tracing via Haplogroups.

I do know that the old concepts of "race" arising from primitive 1800s sceience and writing is dead now in light of Y-DNA testing and tracing.

The new "races" are Haplogroups.

If people aren't educated to this yet, that's just a matter of ignorance. But the information is out there and easily discoverable.

For example, it compeltely disproves the whole "Ashkenazi Jews are descendant from Khazars" nonsense. Ashkenazi are almost as closely related by DNA to the original 12 tribes (and Jesus Christ, for that matter) as the Sephardim or any other Jews.

but Y-DNA also shows Palestinian are descendant from

ancient Jews.


Simpler analogy:

Joe from California and Jane from Virginia met in a Las Vegas bar. When it came to payment, both argued they should pay. Jane argued since Virginia was part of "original America" it would only be right for her to pay.

Joe on the other hand admitted that California was a "late entree" but his great grandparents had live in this state for hundreds of years. So it was his right to pay since the bar is near to his home.

That may be the case.

And it's quite interesting, but it's not the point at hand.

An assertion was made that Israelis aren't "real Jews" because they are not genetically related to the 12 tribes.

That assertion is nonsense and false, as Y-DNA data shows that they most certainly ARE related to the 12 tribes.

If Palestinians are too, hooray for them.

If that's what you believe,

then I can understand being anti-Israel.

"The truth is that neither British nor American imperialism was or is idealistic. It has always been driven by economic or strategic interests." - Charlie Reese

Throw all the barbs you want

but I am SO SICK of this mumbo-jumbo!! Just like they do us with the media (cause division with misinformation), they made this crap up! They know it to be a good means of controlling the unwashed masses,and in the worst of times, will have us ambivalently pointing fingers at all manner of supposed 'bad guys'. If there's one thing they're good at, it's telling people bullshit and jerking their underwear up over their heads.

It's a bunch of Jewey-Hooey! I'm SO damned sick of it!!


barb. I understand your sentiment, but try to be respectful at least to those of us who have religious convictions. I will never try to force my religion on you. I will fight for religious freedom as hard as I will fight for freedom from religion.

"Be a listener only, keep within yourself, and endeavor to establish with yourself the habit of silence, especially on politics." -Thomas Jefferson

barb accepted

It is your right to believe WHATEVER you wish, and I'll proudly defend that right. The moon's made of green cheese, witches fly brooms, or that God sent a messiah to save his 'chosen people', but since they couldn't use him, they let the goyim make a religion out of him, and got him lynched/'sacrificed' (validating Paganism, by the way).
Honestly, the teachings of Jesus are all one needs to know to live an hopefully virtuous life. He died primarily for rocking the Pharisee's boats, and calling them and Jews of those times 'children of the serpent'. The TRUTH has always caused a major malfunction for power hungry assholes. No different there.
He's my savior too, I suppose, but I jumped off the merry-go-round regarding the rest of the BS a long time ago. So, excuse me.

I can respect that,

and you are right, people like to grab power and control others. Church history shows this as well as Western history. Power hungry assholes are everywhere. So are people who want to grab your liberties and make you a slave. I personally find answers to these problems in Reformed Christianity. But my faith also teaches me that the solution will not be found on earth. People will always be people. My hope is heaven.

"Be a listener only, keep within yourself, and endeavor to establish with yourself the habit of silence, especially on politics." -Thomas Jefferson

I feel the same way

Admittedly, I'm a little rough around the edges sometimes, and I have a lot of frustrations, particularly with other family members who take this stuff to the Nth.... But I accept Jesus and his tenets for a good life. I also agree people will never be much different....
There's just been so much hurt and damage to humanity, and while the 'official story' is typically over religious/freedom ideals, the end game is always territory, resources, and power....I'm sure we're on the same page with the history, or not much different.
Religion, unfortunately, is used as a prop and for propaganda, and to shape cultures and groups of humanity into like-minded, dare I say, zealots...Like it's a team sport or something. U of M vs. Ohio State...Good guys vs 'Bad' guys stuff. Every religious text I know of, tries to express it's 'totality', where "The streets will flow with the blood of the non-belivers!", and I just think that's pretty messed up, but I certainly don't blame Jesus or God for that.

At the end of the day, my finger is pointing at, not unlike the jackal's of our media, and the financial and corporate institutions,... I blame the people who seek power, and would be so depraved as to use people's myriad (usually culture bound) religious beliefs to hate on some other group or culture of people. Or worse yet, to justify killing them.

Let's get something straight

Israel IS God's chosen nation... and guess what... SO IS AMERICA!
-Both countries were founded by God WITHOUT ANY KING OR RULERS.
And God is VERY CLEAR about His plans and actions FOR and AGAINST Israel and AMERICA.

The Israeli and American Neo-cons have hi-jacked authentic Zionism.

They have perverted it and used it to manipulate Israeli's and Americans.

People need to STUDY the matter and stop adding to the confusion.


You can start here;
America's Fatal Mistake

And Here;
Isaiah 9:10 & NYC 9/11

Full Version;
The Harbinger - Rabbi Cahn, Full Version

David Wilkerson's sermon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&src_vid=tXei0Zb3dxM&......
Link to John Edward's speech - http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=84922
Tome Daschle's speech - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukYiWd3T9sk

At America's conception our forefathers prayed and consecrated it before God, asking for his protection and favor; God heard them and he surly granted it. But now America as a nation has largely departed from him, now 10 years ago God gave us a warning that he is soon going to revoke his protection and favor that was granted on the request of our forefathers, a judgment is coming unless our nation returns to God and it's roots.

"The scale of the attack of the World Trade Center on September 11th, 2001 was massive. Technology insured the continued visibility and recollection of insistent images. Was this event in New York unique in history? On the surface it would appear that it was not: catastrophic and unimaginable yes, but unique? Rabbi Cahn describes the "Eight Harbingers of Judgment" experienced by Israel and their uncanny parallels to the events of September 11, 2001: his insights are prodigious, overwhelming and foreboding. The consequences that would befall the nation that would not hear the Watchman after experiencing the prior warning which would be a shadow of the cataclysm to come."

If you read your bible you would know

Samuel appointed Saul from the tribe of Benjamin to be the 1st KING of United Kingdom of Israel.

Of course some dude name David (you know the father of Solomon) was the 2nd KING of Israel

It's my understanding that

Israel *asked* for kings. In other words, that wasn't how it started, nor was it how things were intended to operate. See the book of Judges, which precedes the books of Samuel.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

The USA is God's chosen nation? Is that a Mormon thing?

Seriously, could you expand on that or point me to something? Which of the links you provided speak about the USA being chosen and God's plan for the USA?

Sincerely, thanks.

this is an interesting--

third possibility--

something to consider--

I'm always looking for the truth--

I just know that I 'trust' Jews Against Zionism more than Netanyahu and his IDF and other thugs--

God will not condemn righteous people, wherever they are found--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--


So the people living in Israel now are the true Israelites? They are linked to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob through DNA? Psh, ignorant. The people who live in Israel today are all Russian/Polish/European in origin. They have no more link ethnically to the Patriarchs than you and me. They have mixed and are not longer a pure race in the Biblical sense, which was contrary to God's word in the Old Testament. Besides, it was never the 'nation' of Israel that God choose, it was the 'people', those of faith (Galatians 3:7). Think of Rahab and Ruth. It's the same today. Stop believing the Dispensational garbage.

"Be a listener only, keep within yourself, and endeavor to establish with yourself the habit of silence, especially on politics." -Thomas Jefferson

Sorry but DNA testing utterly refutes what you just posted.

Yes, they are related. You can't refute the DNA data, sorry.

Here we go again.

Libertarians downvoting hard scientific data because they dont LIKE it or it makes them ANGRY.

One might think that a Libertarian would actually look it up, but no, they are no better than ignorant Dems or GOP or any other sheeple that would rather wallow in the mud of their own ignorance and downvote anything, no matter how factual or scientific, that conflicts with their subjective worldview.

Unbelievable hypocracy.

But you can refute the DNA testers

After all we've seen, you still trust the authorities?