25 votes

One way to retire debt - call it immoral

I love the irony.

All those Americans suffering under repressive loan arrangements could perhaps take a leaf out of the George Bush playbook. Faced with the inconvenience of a huge debt incurred by Saddam Hussein when Bush took over Iraq, he just declared all the debt as immoral and refused to pay it.

The link below details how Ecuador successfully applied the same strategy against debts to an American Company (the United Fruit Company) and Bush / Obama were forced to back down.

Just one more reason for them to hate Assange. A fascinating read.

http://removingtheshackles.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/assange-e...



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I think the states should secede & declare their share of

the National Debt to be immoral, citing GW Bush and Ecuador as precedent.

This would have MAJOR benefits.

1) The Federal government would have to stop wasting over $1tn a year and run balance budgets.
They would no longer be able to borrow any money except from the Fed and they would have just lost $2tn on their Treasury Note holdings.

2) It would save the US $16.2tn+

It would cause some problems for a few months like Iceland had.
But Iceland is now doing very well after defaulting on it's debts and kicking the bankers & the old government out.

Boy would that put the wind up the likes of Goldman Sachs.

The US would also need to balance it's trade deficit, currently running at $600bn p.a.

The US National Debt is undoubtedly immoral.
Only the states are allowed to coin money according to the Constitution.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Along with the Debt, we should also consider the US Gov't

Immoral.

Morality can, and in my understanding should, be defined as an absence of Right Infringing Activity or Behavior.

The US Gov't engages in Right Infringing Acts just about every time they meet. It can truly be defined as a chronic behavior.

I do not however understand that Seccesion or violent revolution is necessary to declare our Gov't Immoral and rid ourselves of the Immorality.

The Libertarians are on the Map, we've got our foot in the Door, and we're just getting Started. One of our Missions must be that we educate people on when their Rights are being abridged and how Morality, especially form our Gov't, is the path to Peace, Happiness, and Prosperity for almost everyone (especially our Govt's enemies).

Yes, default on the debt!

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As long as there is investment

... there will be debt. Even in a totally free-market economy.

In the context of a system of sound money, debt is simply the use of "current money" denominated in terms of "future money". If the value of that future money (overall, rather than per unit) is more than the value of the money now, an interest rate is created.

Calling debt immoral is equivalent to denouncing negative numbers because you find them offensive. It doesn't change the fact that the concept of debt (and negative numbers) will continue to exist.

If you want to retire debt in this fashion, be honest and call it what it really is: default.

It's kinda a default

It's kinda a default... but more like if somebody moved into a house after the old tenants die and being asked to take over the payments, and in this case the old tenants have no next of kin to pass the debt to so the banks take the "loss"

also the new owners tell the banks to get lost, they own this land now, and they are going to suck the oil and gold from their newly pillaged lands:)

Tools of war are not always obvious. The worst weapon is an idea planted in the mind of man. Prejudices can kill, suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has an everlasting fallout all of its own.

DJP333's picture

That's one hell of a story!

Big bump! There is definitely an information war going on right now, and the bankers, politicians and elites are getting a little nervous.

"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different." ~CW

Can someone narrate this to some video

to make something more palatable to the masses. The entire read, all I could think of was how to get a bunch of sheep to read it.

Important stuff... for many reasons.

In the unlikely event of a state seceding

In the unlikely event of a state seceding from the USSA, they can use this little ace in the hole to "pay" off its "debt".

I always knew there was more to the Assange story. I just didn't realize the scope of what Assange helped do.

Tools of war are not always obvious. The worst weapon is an idea planted in the mind of man. Prejudices can kill, suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has an everlasting fallout all of its own.

This is telling, hopefully some state legislators and governors

will see the wisdom of secession.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

lindalsalisbury's picture

Oh Ho! Agree!

Certainly, my share of the national debt was visited upon me by a greedy government, not acting in my best interest. I have been wondering how secession states would absolve themselves of the massive debt visited upon them by an immoral government!

What a grand opportunity to hand the debt back to the FED and the federal government!

My hope for the future is restored!

Seems like

all this national debt we raise might just be canceled out like many centuries ago. I mean they are just numbers on a screen, isn't that were our money supply comes from?

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

Debt is not christian, it is unholy.

It suggests and tends to indicate a covetous behavior if nothing else.

Of course there is a time for everything (Book of Ecclesiastes), but that is generally NOT the reason that people borrow.

Charging Usury and Interest is an evil practice; thus it (and those who practice evil) is the foundation for our entire banking system.

Ezekiel 18:13
If he has exacted usury Or taken increase— Shall he then live? He shall not live! If he has done any of these abominations, He shall surely die; His blood shall be upon him.

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Charging Interest is no more

Charging Interest is no more evil than than a car company charging you to rent a vehicle. It is the price you pay to rent money. Ironically, Ben Bernanke seems to agree with you. Interest is the cost you pay to rent money. Do you decry all renting as evil?

You have to realize though

You have to realize though that the money loaned is created out of thin air, and is not a real loan. The item loaned (money) devalues at a rapid pace, it's currency, not money.

It makes it evil/immoral.

Over in the Muslim countries where interest is illegal, this is how the banks works (explained by a friend in KSA).

You need a loan, but don't have any money - you are out of luck.

But lets say you can buy a car, but need to save some of the money. You then buy the car with you own money, and then sell it to the bank, which you will then rent to own. That's legal.

(My friend doesn't speak good English, so it's hard to get what he said perfectly, but this is the general idea.)

Its stops a loop of immoral borrowing when you are unable to pay, because you have to have the assets to purchase it before hand, and then whatever you do with it after wards.

They are still working on a system (banking) that creates money out of thin air (fiat), and they don't like it, but they have modded the system to limit wild borrowing.

In our system, eventually you can loan out ~9x any deposit in the bank, making the interest rate lets say 10% * 9 = 90% a month (or more). It transfers all the wealth to the rich, destroying the people. Cut back the loans, people can't pay, and the bank gets all the assets. It is flat out evil and immoral once you truly understand it.

Blah.

Sounds like you are talking

Sounds like you are talking about fractional reserve banking, which is not the same as interest. Also, if banks are allowed to fail, they do not participate in risky lending processes.

Of course I am talking about

Of course I am talking about that, and that is immoral. If you take our (current) money system and remove that, there will be no money, no banks.

It's exponential or death in our (now worldwide) system.

Blah.

Yes, i consider fractional

Yes, i consider fractional reserve banking immoral, too, but not charging interest. They are not the same thing.

Agreed

Its kind of hypocritical for one fiat currency to charge another with immoral debt. Let them go to a commodity backed currency if they really are interested in immoral debt. That being said, the USA is king of the hill for immoral currency lending.