6 votes

When and where has socialism failed?

Are any of you historically savvy enough to enumerate the failures of socialism since the beginning of recorded history?

This would help me with an argument I'm currently having.




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How much tax do you think

the Carlyle Group, Halliburton,Lockheed Martin, etc are paying?
The capitalism that we have now is not the same as capitalism in a free market. The Capitalism that we have now, is the tax payer lining the pockets of the few, just the same as Dictatorship, Communism and fascistism.

no idea how much

they pay in taxes, but I guarantee it's not even close to what they benefit from them.

What we have now isn't capitalism. I think it hurts our cause when we call it capitalism because actual capitalism, as its actually defined, is what we need. If we trash the good name of the solution, how will we explain the solution?

I think you're operating

I think you're operating under the false assumption that profit = capitalism. Capitalism involves profits, but that doesn't mean all profits are due to capitalism

I think he was being

I think he was being sarcastic? The person above him said ridiculous things that obviously weren't caused by capitalism, so I think he was throwing those things in as well

Here is one, THE US!

Public streets, Highways and Roads a success = Socialism
Public works a success = Socialism
Public Schools, a success = Socialism
Police Department = Socialism
Public library = Socialism
Waterworks = Socialism
Fire department = Socialism
Wall Street Bailout = Socialism bet you loved that one!

The fact is that we are living surrounded by Socialism but you don't even know it. Because you don't know what Socialism is! You just know the word.

Take Norway, Sweden and Finland! All very socialistic, right! Norway has more millionairs per capita then most other countries in the world. They have the highest wages in the world. The average is 54 Dollars per hour. They get six weeks vacation. National health care. In the US we pay about three times as much as other countries for our health care but get much less care and we are the most sickest Nation out of almost all other countries on the planet.
They also have more time for family and leisure. Here in the US it is work work work for less and less and less. This is because the big corporations now control the government. Like Ron Paul said, Corporatism. The correct word is actually Fascism.

Even Germany is doing pretty well compared to the rest of europe, Socialism.
In Germany they have shut down their Nuclear power plants and are already over 50% Solar. But in the US they are increasing their dependence on oil because of the oil industry political influence. We too could be 50% Solar by now but not as long as the Corporations run the country.

Possibly capitalism could work but we do not have capitalism in the US. We have not had it for years if at all.

So can somebody tell me what is Socialism?

Well socialism

is ownership of the means of production by the state, but any time you rob someone of their property and give it to someone else your system begins to decline which is ultimately done with a state owned gun. Corporatism/fascism is socialism for connected businesses. Private gains, public losses held together again by state violence. The money flowing into Wall Street and banking is coming from the Federal Reserve which transfers wealth from private property owners to those who use the newly "printed" money. If you try to resist the system, you will always end up with a government owned gun to your head. That's key, it's the violence of the state.

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

I get your point

But having an economic system based on socialism, and having a free market economic system with socialist programs are two very different things. Economic systems identified as socialism have had by far the majority of industry owned by the gov't with prices and wages set by the government, I don't think that would be a good definition of the US or any of the other countries you stated.

And Germany has only 25% of their energy coming from renewable energy and solar is not even at the top of that list so you're way off on that.
http://cleantechnica.com/2012/07/26/germany-26-of-electricit...

Norway is also

... one of the most expensive places in the world to live. Food, housing and luxuries are more expensive there than in the UK. Oslo consistently ranks as one of the most expensive cities in the world in which to live. eg. Average price for a pint of beer at a pub is equivalent of 11 USD.

Socialist government subsidy of all kinds has created this crazy environment. Without this government subsidy, no one could afford to live there. It's that perception which keeps the citizens from making too many waves.

Socialism is the concept that society must bear the costs of the needy and the only way to accomplish this is through force of government. This is because, in the Socialist philosophy, two things are assumed to be true: 1) The average person is too stupid to take care of themselves, and 2) rich people (and rich companies) never buy things or employ people with their profits, they hoard their wealth in huge money bins a la Uncle Scrooge or maybe in a mountain like Smaug. This pile of cash is then only used for bathing, and as backdrops for family photos, while starving women and children hurl themselves into the alligator-infested moat outside. And then... well, you get the idea.

Socialism is demagoguing taken to its logical extreme.

Public schools are a success?

Public schools are a success?

Don't try to troll me.

I never said America is currently a capitalist nation. I'm simply asking for examples of socialism failing.

Also, you pretending that any country that employs the use of roads, military, etc... necessarily makes said country a socialist one, is lunacy. Those things, [things that benefit the GENERAL welfare, ("general" meaning - "affecting the whole")] are not what make America a semi-socialist nation... but the bailouts are.

That the government was able to accomplish these things...

isn't evidence that they were successes.

Example - rural electrification. Sure, it got done. But wouldn't it have been done anyway my the private sector? Wasn't there enough demand for electricity? Weren't Westinghouse and Edison and Co offering competing forms of electricity (DC and AC) for sale, profitably? Wouldn't the private sector have gotten the job done at about half the cost, since they had good reason to save money, while the government has incentives to waste money?

Pandas: The Silent Killer?
next 'Nightline'

I think that ...

I think that if you made a list of places it has succeeded it be a very short list if at all.

RickStone