23 votes

How Libertarians can beat the "Somalian Government" argument.

With Justice. What Libertarians are ultimately proposing is not Somalian government; it's justice.

We've all heard it before; some Big Government Nanny State Satan Claus attacking Libertarians, saying 'small government fails', and if you have any doubt 'just look at Somalia', as if that's what a Libertarian is proposing.

We as Libertarians should look at this argument as an opportunity to teach people about liberty and what a Libertarian is. We can teach them why Somalia isn't what we're proposing; it's what THEY'RE proposing.

We're proposing a government that meets injustice with force, which is the only legitimate purpose of government, and justice comes from defending peoples liberty.

The same problems faced in Somalia are the same problems born from big government; a lack of justice, and the same people who destroy a country with big government are the same people who spread misery and death in Somalia; those willing to use force to take what they covet.

A Libertarian isn't "anti-government". We're pro-liberty, pro justice, and we know where justice is born; defending liberty from those who'd take it with force. It's not Libertarians that destroy Somalia, it's a lack of justice; it's a lack of liberty, it's one warlord after another promising people the opposite of justice; slaves, plunder, and dominion.

What you find in Somalia are the same kind of people who populate the Nanny state crowd, covetous people stealing from one another, and that's why our country looks more and more like Somalia every day; we have no justice.

The problems in Somalia ARE NOT born from liberty, they're born from the same kind of people who beg a politician to answer their unjust prayers, people who oppose liberty.




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say whaaaa?

Go start an Anarchist party? That's like saying go start a vegan butcher shop, a contradiction in terms. Also, all anarchists are libertarians, but not all libertarians are anarchists.

Finally, here is a poem for you, called "Anarchy is not Chaos," by David Freedman:

In Washington there isn't any plan
With "feeding David" on page sixty-four;
It must be accidental that the milk man
Leaves a bottle at my door.

It must be accidental that the butcher
Has carcasses arriving at his shop
The very place where, when I need some meat,
I accidentally stop.

My life is chaos turned miraculous;
I speak a word and people understand
Although it must be gibberish since words
Are not produced by governmental plan.

Now law and order, on the other hand
The state provides us for the public good;
That's why there's instant justice on demand
And safety in every neighborhood.

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

cognitive dissonance

What you said:

Libertarians want a government that serves justice.

What libertarians hear:

Libertarians want people who violate the NAP to serve justice.

“The ultimate solution is not

“The ultimate solution is not in the hands of the government. The solution falls on each and every individual, with guidance from family, friends and community."

-Ron Paul, November 14, 2012

"The ultimate solution"

"The ultimate solution"

He's correct, as you can now see, Libertarian government fails for the same reasons an Anarchists chaos will fail; the world is filled with covetous people who choose to revel in their nature.

The only way to win is from the bottom up, by addressing the reasons we fail with our families, friends, and community.

"The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want."

I hate to break this to you, but you WILL fail too, because you don't know what the problem is.

The best we can do is to speak truth and serve justice in word and action. Jesus tried to show you. You can't save these people, but you HAVE been saved if you'd choose to be.

At this point, humanity doesn't choose liberty. They've rejected God, justice, and liberty. People now worship themselves, and that's why you're going to get destroyed. The principle of self interest is ALL about feeding mans covetous nature.

I'm not anti-government

I just want it to function within the guidelines of the Constitution. Is that asking too much? apparently so....

If you want to function

If you want to function within the guidelines of the Constitution, you are a conservative, not a libertarian.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

yes

we already tried to create the smallest government in the world a couple of hundred years ago and within around half that time it grew to be the biggest empire the world has ever seen. it was a noble idea but one that as you can look around and see has failed.
i used to feel the same as you. i still believe in working at all levels if just to educate people as we peacefully transition into a voluntary society.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."
Thomas Jefferson

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.

The lack of private property rights I believe is the biggest roadblock to a more prosperous Somalia.

The problem

Is the presumption in their argument. The libertarian argument is not "We will create a perfect world", it is that given a certain population of people, a libertarian society will be better than society run by a centrally planned government.

This holds true in Somalia. Most economic indicators show that the Somali economy is doing better without a central government than when it did have one. The period of the most strife are seen when foreign government and the UN intervene and "back" one of the sides.

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Agreed

"The libertarian argument is not We will create a perfect world"

Agreed. Liberty is anything but a perfect world, but it can be what we make it.

A perfect world can only exist in a world filled with perfect people who all agree on it's definition. Imagine how a covetous person defines a perfect world...

At this point in history we should all recognize those who sell Utopia to covetous people for what they are; Judas Goats. It really pisses me off when people call Libertarians idealists. We're anything but idealists, and all we seem to do is compromise with evil men. I'm tired of it. I say win the debate and let the chips fall where they may. My money is on Humanity.

On This Thanksgiving

I'm thankful that FreedomsReigning and myself can find complete agreement on something!

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