-30 votes

Are you misled on the issues surrounding the Israeli/Palestinian conflicts?

For a while now I've been seeing a lot of anti Israel rhetoric here on DP. I wanted to take a minute to say that I think many of you are mislead on the issues surrounding the Israeli/Palestinian conflicts. I see people coming down on the side of the Palestinians and view Israel as the perpetrators of all aggression time and time again. I do not and here is why.

________________

Israel became a nation in about 1440 BC (at Mount Sinai), two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

In about 70 AD the Romans took over the whole land, flattened Jerusalem, burnt down the Temple and killed and exiled a large part of the Jewish population of the area.

In 139 AD, the descendants of those who remained, under the command of Bar Kokhba, again rebelled against Rome. The Roman army came in again and this time they killed many thousands of Jews, flattened Jerusalem again and built a new Roman city on the ruins, calling it Aelia Capitolina. They then expelled all the Jews, who had survived the slaughter.

The Roman Procurator in charge of the captured Jewish territories called for historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their history. The historians replied, "the Philistines";

Thus, the Procurator declared that the Land of Israel would from then forward be called "Palaestina" to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history.

For nearly 2000 years the land of Israel was known as Palestine. In 1948, it became Israel once again.

The Arab nations initiated at least four of the Middle Eastern wars- in 1948, in 1967, in the War of Attrition and in 1973-and they lost. Israel defended herself each time and won.

The PLO’s charter still calls for the destruction of Israel.

Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

_____________________

“Since 1948 it is we who have demanded the return of the refugees while it is we who made them leave. We have rendered them dispossessed. We have accustomed them to begging. We have participated in lowering their moral and social level. Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson and throwing bombs at men, women and children.”
Khaled al-Azzem, former Syrian Prime Minister 1973.

_____________________

DO THE PALESTINIAN MOSLEMS REALLY WANT PEACE WITH ISRAEL?

"The governments of the world should know that Islam cannot be defeated. Islam will be victorious in all the countries of the world and Islam and the teachings of the Koran will prevail all over the world."
(Ayatollah Khomeini "The Blood of the Moon" page 72)

"We shall export our revolution to the whole world. Until the cry, ‘Allahu akbar’ resounds over the whole world, there will be struggle. There will be jihad!"
(Ayatollah Khomeini "The Blood of the Moon" page 72)

"Anyone who relinquishes a single inch of Jerusalem is neither an Arab nor a Muslim."
Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the P.L.O.(Voice of Palestine, Algiers, 2 September 1993)

"The Zionist entity exists on seized land. The Jews remain enemies because they expropriate lands, build settlements and pay high sums to buy properties. They are the greatest enemies of us Muslims."
"The Zionist entity" is a common euphemism used by those who do not recognize the legitimacy of the State of Israel.
Ikrama Sabri, Palestinian Authority mufti for Jerusalem.
(The New York Times, 18 May 1997)

"I want to say that this is our Palestine, from Metulla [Israel's northernmost city] to Rafiah [Southern border] and to Aqaba [Israel's southernmost point], from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea; whether they want it or not."
Dr. Jareer Al-Kidwah, advisor to President Arafat, PA TV broadcast, November 29, 2000

"Allah’s messenger- may peace be upon him- has commanded: Fight the Jews and kill them. Pursue them until even a stone would say: Come here, Moslem, there is a Jew hiding himself under me. Kill him. Kill him quickly."
(Moslem Tradition)

"Our war against the Jews is an old struggle that began with Mohammed…It is our duty to fight the Jews for the sake of Allah and religion. It is our duty to end the war that Mohammed began.
(Al Ahram. Nov 26th 1955)

"You don’t understand…Islam can never negotiate or recognize Israel."
(Hamas leader in BBC interview 1994)

"Our position is clear: all of Palestine. Every inch of Palestine belongs to the Muslims."
Mahmoud Zahar, senior leader of Hamas -Quoted in the Jerusalem Post, November 14, 2003

"Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated. We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity."
Excerpt from the Hizballah Programme, 16 February 1985.

“The hatred which we indoctrinate into the minds of our children from their birth is sacred”
(Suleiman Al-Khash in Al-Thaura, the Ba’ath party newspaper, May 3, 1968).

___________________

MOSLEM REACTIONS TO THE ATTACKS ON AMERICA

"If you want to know the real perpetrator of every disaster or every act of terrorism, look for the Zionist Jews. They are behind all the violent and terror operations that have occurred everywhere in the world...It is the Jews, with their hidden filthy hands, who play their part with expertise in order to harm the Arabs and Muslims and to intensify hatred towards them...Actually, it is they who are behind the events of September 11..."
Dr. 'Atallah Abu Al-Subh, a columnist for the Hamas weekly Al-Risala (Gaza), November 1, 2001.

"What happened is, in my opinion, the product of Jewish, Israeli, and American Zionism, and the act of the great Jewish Zionist mastermind that controls the world's economy, media, and politics..."
Ahmad Al-Muslih,Al-Dustour (Jordan), September 13, 2001.

________________________

WHAT DO PALESTINIANS REALLY THINK OF ISRAEL ?

The following are quotes from ordinary Palestinians. No names, no pack drill.

"The hell of Israel is better than the paradise of Arafat. We know Israeli rule stinks, but sometimes we feel like Palestinian rule would be worse."

"If a secret poll was conducted, I am sure an overwhelming majority of Jerusalem Arabs would say they would prefer to stay in Israel."

"They tell me—we are not like Gaza or the West Bank. We hold Israeli IDs. We are used to a higher standard of living. Even if Israeli rule is not so good, it is still better than that of the PA."

"I prefer Israeli control."

"I can only tell you to pray that the Israelis don't leave your town," because "the Jews are more human" than Palestinians."

"Here you can say whatever you like and do whatever you want—so long as you don't touch the security of Israel. Over there, if you talk about Arafat, they can arrest you and beat you up."

"We no longer fear the Israelis or the Americans, regardless of their hostility, but we now fear our Arab ‘brothers.' “

_____________

“When Yasser Arafat and the PLO arrived in Gaza in 1994 there was a lot of hope that the Palestinians would enjoy a free media. However, one of the first thing the PLO did was to order an immediate crackdown on the Palestinian media. Many local journalists - including those working with the international media and those who had independent press offices were targeted. Some were arrested, beaten, their equipment confiscated and offices torched. Sadder still, the foreign media did not really cover the story.

Why was there a crackdown? Because those who came with Arafat from Tunis came with a different mentality. They did not live here. Most of them had never spoken to an Israeli Jew in their lives. As such, they came with what could be called an "Arab regime" mentality, like that of Arab dictators. They wanted to make sure that the Palestinian media was 100-percent under control. They secured that control by appointing editors, closing down newspapers and funding competing ones.

The PA, for example, ordered a crackdown on the pro-Jordanian An-Nahar newspaper in Jerusalem and closed it down. Another newspaper edited by the Khatib family, which had been operating with an Israeli license between 1967 and 1994, had its offices burnt down, and the publisher fled to London.

THREE YEARS ago I began reporting daily for The Jerusalem Post. The irony is that as an Arab Muslim I feel freer to write for this Jewish paper than I do for any Arab newspaper. I have no problem writing for any Arab newspaper if it will provide me with a free platform and not censor my writing. My Post editors do not interfere with my writing.
The fallen hope for Palestinian press freedom, Khaled Abu Toameh. January 3, 2006

___________________

"Honestly, the problems we face in our relations with some of our Arab brothers are much worse than those we face vis-á-vis Israel."
Yasser Arafat, 1985

http://www.peaceforourtime.org.uk/index.html




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Relevance?

Citing a 200 year old national claim as authoritative is pretty ballsy. (Anyone think there should be an actual national entity such as Cherokee-land or maybe Seminolia?) Citing a 2000 year old claim is preposterous.

Fact: The nation of Israel was legitimized by a proposed international mandate, which was part of a proposed two state solution to partition Palestine. However the border Arab nations rejected any notion of the creation of Israel; it was a non-starter for them. No matter, the Zionists jumped ahead and declared themselves a nation in May of 1948. THERE IS NO FEASIBLE, VALID CLAIM to Israel before that date.

Since then, the Israeli arrogance has only been exceeded by poor decisions by the Palestinians. The Six Day War was stupid and totally on the Palestinians. They should have accepted the reality of the two state solution to begin with, and they would have a larger territory, more national autonomy and more citizens. But they didn't.

This tragedy is ultimately a function of a series of failures, starting with the British Mandate over Palestine (former Ottoman territory) that began after World War I. The British failed to protect the property rights of the indigenous Palestinians. The Zionists saw an opening and inexorably took advantage.

Support our republic and the liberty it provides - Todd

Mises quote

"If some peoples pretend that history or geography gives them the right to subjugate other races, nations, or peoples, there can be no peace."

“It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till." -J.R.R. Tolkien

Katniss

I have told you that I really like your screen name, haven't I? :-)

Thanks to this forum, I have learned to really appreciate Mises Institute. I wish that I would have learned of it much sooner.

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I find nothing unusual in your comments from . . .

Arabs/Palestinians--

the most cruel people to *me* are people in my own church; I prefer associating with people from other religions--

Israelis who don't like the Israeli regime don't feel safe either--

so there's nothing unusual about the idea that 'someone else' is better than an abusive neighbor--

or family member--

"anyone but _____________"--

that's a universal problem--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

If I posted some of Paul's

If I posted some of Paul's thoughts pertaining to Israel here under my name id get scorned and downvoted.
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/paul-israel-support-wead/...

Why is that?

I'm pretty sure most of us agree that the government should stop giving foreign aid and mind its own business.

so sad--

man's inhumanity to man--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

And the Megaphonies decended on the DP

I am comforted by the fact that most of the Americans using the Internet now realize that Israel is a Terrorist State. It has but one goal in mind and that is the destruction of every man women and child who is not Jewish.

When I say Israel, I am referring to Zionist not Jews. They're to many good Jewish people to mention that have fought against Zionism that I could not mention them all but Zionist are the true enemy of all free men for are not Jewish.

Their religion dictates that God has chosen them and just them to rule the world. Wrong...wrong.....wrong. They could not be further from the truth.

If the truth be know, the Palestinians are more Jewish than these Jews who have immigrated from Europe.

BMWJIM's picture

This whole argument does not matter.

This is just a repeat/play in the whole of what is coming.

The real war has been won. Now we ALL just play our respective parts. That is the drawing in of the innocent to the left/right BS.

Jim

Screw the MIDDLE EAST,LoL! There is going to be a spiritual zone in Iran when it is all over anyway. Teach that to the ELITE!

The rest will be wiped out. Just thought I would let you know! Can't change what has already occurred.

Jim

1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.

I just want to add a few more

I just want to add a few more thoughts on this topic. I don't claim to know how modern day Jews fit into all the ancient Bible texts but I think it's important to know the back story if I ever expect to arrive at a reasonable truth. It's quite clear many here have made up their minds. I'm just not there yet. There are a lot of great posts here - passionate and informative. It will probably take me another week to just give this comment thread it's due diligence. I'm glad to have such a great resource like DP. God knows there just aren't that many places to go to have a real meaningful conversation on Middle East policy and ancient history.

So here are my final thoughts and a bit more information that I believe everyone who has an opinion should be aware of.

_________________

To ever begin to understand the present Middle East conflict, we need to understand the history of those in conflict — the Jews and the Arabs. The modern day conflict between the Jews and the Arabs stems back thousands of years and revolves around a covenant God made with Abram(Abraham).

God promised Abraham that he would be richly blessed for his faith. Abraham was promised that his descendants would be as the dust of the earth, the stars of the sky, and the sand upon the seashore. He promised Abraham the land of Canaan to the descendants of his son Isaac. He also promised that in him all the families of the world would be blessed.

Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael.

Arab Muslims trace their lineage back to Abraham through Ishmael.
Jews trace their lineage back to Abraham through Isaac.
(No surprise that their DNA shows little discernible difference)

The book of Genesis says the covenant with Abraham would be fulfilled through his son Isaac.
The Koran says that Ishmael was the one through whom God’s covenant would be fulfilled.

The Bible states that Abraham was a Hebrew (Jew).
The Quran tells us that Abraham was Muslim.

The Bible states that God tested Abraham’s faith when He told him to sacrifice Isaac.
The Quran states that Ishmael, not Isaac, was the sacrifice.

It’s important to note that the book of Genesis was written between 1450 and 1410 B.C. The Quran was written between 609 and 632 A.D.; 2058 years later.

The root of the conflict in the Middle East stems from the fact that Muslims do not believe the Bible’s testimony given by God over 2,000 years before their religion began with Mohammad. The Quran does not recognize Israel and seeks to remove her title as God’s chosen people and nation. The Muslim faith, from its inception, has attempted to convince the world through deception and revisionist history that Arabs, not Jews, are the true heir to God’s promised blessings on the lineage of Abraham and that Allah, not the God of the Bible is the only true God. They are not one and the same IMO.

The Bible does say that Ishmael received a promise as well.
Abraham asked God to bless his son Ishmael and God answered: “And as for Ishmael (Abraham’s son to Sarah’s servant Hagar), I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.”

It also says of Ishmael would be “A wild donkey of a man, and his hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand against him, and he will dwell in the face of his brothers.”

Despite the obvious problems the relatively young age of the Qur'an should generate for any rational person taking an objective look at the middle east to determine the rightful property owners of the land of Israel, it is amazing to hear the Arabs claiming it is the Jews are imposters to the inheritance and blaming them for steeling the Palestinian land and identity. Arafat even claimed Jesus was a Palestinian freedom fighter. Others claim he was a Muslim martyr.
Muslims have simply altered the text and teachings of Genesis to lay claim to God’s promises to Abraham, including the land promised to the descendants of Isaac. That is how I see it at this point.

An interesting sidenote: Alfred Guillame who is a Professor of Arabic and Islamic studies states, many words in the Qur'an do not yield a meaning unless they are traced back to their Hebrew or Syriac sources.

Again, thanks for all the input on this most important subject. To me, If we get this wrong, we'll be off track on a lot of other issues as well.

um . . .

Ishmael WAS Abraham's son and DOES have claim to the blessings--

God never wanted the sons of Abraham to quarrel; that was their human choice, and there wasn't a good guy and a bad guy (though the Bible would like you to think that)--

Ishmael was punished enough for Sarah and Abraham's choices (and the choices of Hagar)--

Ishmael is part of the covenant, like it or not.

And though Israel had 'enemies', Israel was also an 'enemy'--

it's time to get rid of the white hats/black hats--(though generally the Jews wear black hats and the Arabs white, literally--kind of funny)

the Muslim faith is no more deficient than the Jewish faith--

There are devout and very good Muslims who are basically Christians at heart, and there are devout and very good Jews who are basically Christians and heart--

the others . . .--

it helps not to label and collectivize--

Yes, God did covenant, again, with Jacob (Israel), but it was never intended to strike Ishmael out--

God is inclusive, not exclusive. So when religions become exclusive, they are unGodly--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

with all due respect . . .

... this is complete crap!

1) When the Muslim armies pushed across the Middle East and also into Southern Europe, they put the Jews in charge of the conquered cities.

2) According to Gilad Atzmon, the Jews hated Jesus and prayed for death be visited on his followers.

3) The Muslim recognize Jesus Christ a prophet, however not the son of god.

4) I do NOT subscribe literally to the old Testament, the new Testament or the Koran. Too many oddball occurrences. FOR EXAMPLE: Why does Noah sleep with the same woman, his wife, and yet bear three sons with completely different skin colour?

5) Why are there statuses of Moses with horns? It's astro-theology baby! Check out Santos Bonacci on YouTube and Bill Donahue on the web - hiddenmeaningsDOTcom

the idea that Jews and Muslims have been . . .

"traditional enemies" (a term I've heard used)--

is not true; I appreciate your comments--

I think there is a lot of corruption in the Bible, especially the Old Testament; I think there are truths in there, too--

God made it quite clear that He wasn't happy with the ancient Israelites in many ways--

so, yes, corruption--

all over the place--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Do you support Israel? Watch this video

This site is by Gilad Atzmon, a Jew born and raised in Israel, who has totally denounced his birthplace, and will blountly stat he is a British citizen. He is a musisician by trade, but follows and gives outspoken input on the plague of Zionism, which inhabits Palestine. This is for you onesquarelight, the lover of slaughtering innocent children for a mythical cause, named Zionism. http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/do-you-really-support-israel...

I myself, know both Christian and Muslim Palestinian's who's ancestries date back over a thousand years in Palestine. Both, who don't know each other, claim Christians and Muslims lived in peace, celebrated each others holidays, without any strife, up until the terrorist Zionist's came about the region. They still have relatives who refuse to leave, were the Christians state they are not bothered by the aleged terrorist group, Hamas, only by the Israeli Jews.

the non-Zionistic (sp?) Jews got along . . .

well with Muslims, too--

I have had a powerful need to separate myself from the Muslim-hating, Christian warmongers, because I am a Christian, and I love my faith--

So I can understand the desperate feelings the non-Zionistic Jews feel about distancing themselves from the Zionists--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

dual citizens of Israel and United States

It's chilling to see just how long the list of government officials who are dual citizens of Israel and United States.
---
Colonel's Wife Tell-All Interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A159Q9K8MlM

Kay Griggs speaks freely about the unimagined corruption and extent of the oppressive systems of deception within the leadership nexus of military intelligence with secret society internationalism. - this is part 4 of 4 parts.
It's pretty scary. Abuse, drugs, alchol, sexual deviancy, mind control, murder, violence... etc. Watch all four for jaw dropping revelations.

In one of the sessions she mentions visiting the Middle East section of the State Department... not one Arab, Muslim, Christian, American working in the Middle East department. Instead, it is controlled by Israelis. She claims that on the walls were pictures of nothing else but Israel and Zionism.

Sorry

In any case

Israel and the Palestinians are stuck at an impasse. Both are at fault, no matter what happened when. Neither can defeat the other--The Palestinians have the seventh largest birth rate on the planet, with grievance from past hurts that produces political capital for world sympathy. As well being exploited by militant radicals like the Hamas who have their own agenda.

Israel naturally should and will protect itself and of course, has its Holocaust history--hijacked to preserve the state which has its own interests at sake. Same thing when the slavery issue was used as a cloak to justify the Civil War, or Wilson "Making the world safe for democracy" to get the US into WWI.

So short of Armageddon, both nations will continue to be locked in a Hatfield and McCoy blood feud, encouraged by other interests and parties who benefit from the conflict.

I wish the US would stay out,as we only enable the bloody cycle.

Conscience does not exist if not exercised

"No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up!
---Lily Tomlin

After reading the OP, I am disappointed

The list of quotes is highly selective, leaving out the comments by the founders of Israel, and current occupants, that justify treating the Arabs like animals.

Also, there is no mention that most Palestinian organizations have accepted that Israel is going to exist no matter what. The question is: within what boundries? Hamas leadership has accepted the idea of the 1967 borders, but the Israeli government has not.

Several years ago I met an old man who told me a story about his youth. It seems he was a physical education instructor at American University in Beruit after WWII. One day, he was taking his girlfriend to the seashore in an old army surplus jeep when they encountered a stream of people with bundles on their backs and pulling carts full of possessions.

Realizing there was a human disaster going on, he turned around, went back to Beruit where they called a hospital they knew of to the south. The hospital had doctors, but many of the nurses and orderlies had fled. They were swamped and were in desperate need of supplies. This young American gathered a couple of friends, piled the jeep high with blankets and supplies, and the three of them headed south to render assistance. A Christian (Quaker), a Muslim, and a Jew.

That's how it was before 1948, he said. The religions generally got along, each living side by side trading with each other, and mostly in respectful peace. 1948 changed all that.

After reading three books by Benny Morris, I've come to believe the old man's story is a pretty good representation of how life was. The never-ending conflicts since 1948 are the result of the establishment of a State that defines itself as representing ONLY one of the three great religions.

I believe there is NO religious or ethnic or historical reason the Christians, Muslims and Jews cannot live together again in peace, but that will never happen until the State underwhich they all live treats everyone equally.

What's the phrase: if you want peace, work for justice?

Regardless if it's Israel or

Regardless if it's Israel or the PLO, the US gov is to blame. Look at US aid to Palestine. The problem is not whatever each side is doing, the problem is that we're paying both of them to do it.

I'd like to offer some constructive criticism of Israel...if you look at their domestic policy, they're still a fundamentally Keynesian social democratic country. The "right wing" parties are usually just more religious or nationalist and don't differ significantly from the left wing ones (which are well to the left of the US Democratic Party). If Israel took a more fiscally conservative direction, I think it would improve as a whole. A big reason for the popularity of social democratic and Keynesian ideas in Israel is that all of this is paid for by the US, just like how India is in a similar situation with the UK. Cut the aid to Israel and I see it going down a more Hong Kong-like route which will improve the nation as a whole, both domestically and on foreign policy.

This is the Unproductive & Silly Side of this "Movement"

Why the hell are we devoting so much space and energy to this issue? This is not our cause, It is not our fight? You people should be ranting and railing against monetary policy and government spending, loss of civil liberties, US Wars and bases throughout the world, etc., instead of choosing sides in a fight between racists tribes in the middle east.

They hate each other over there. The Palestinians are destitute and ignorant. They are going nowhere fast, whether the Jew is their neighbor or not. Half you people act like the Gaza Strip would turn into Sunset Strip if the Zionists would just pack their bags. Sure, eventually things might improve if the Jews left. The Arab might finally realize that they are their own problem without the jew to blame.

The Jew was stupid in 1948. Someone had the bright idea to try and build a luxury Condo in the middle of South Central. And now they are paying the price. Do we have to pay that price along with them forever?

They will always fight. The Jews have 250 nukes and are not going anywhere. The Palestinians will always be losers and always blame the Jew for it. And Zionism? That is pretty much settled at this point. Why beat a dead horse? We are not pulling out of North Dakota and the Jew isn't going to leave "palestine".

This is not our business and that is the point. Our business is here. We are losing our freedom right here at home. It just seems silly to worry about insolvable, everlasting trouble in the middle east.

We don't have to decide who is right or wrong. Their all wrong. If you are looking for clean hands in the middle east, you are a just being silly.

A pox on both their houses. Just stop sending them my money.

"This is not our business"

You're right. So tell that to the dual citizins in gov who are trading American blood and treasure for Israel.

This coming from a person

who equates any criticism of Israel to "anti-semitism" and shows a pro-Israel bias in their own posts. So much for not taking sides.

zionist's

Google countries without a Rothschild controlled central bank in 2000...you'll find it self evident of the 'events' this century and why/who/whats next... Have Swann do the 'real' banking story!!! Do the search, this connection is the likely trip wire that'll usher in the beginning of the end... Lets make it happen!

Don't hate the player, hate the game!!!

Except all those lists are

Except all those lists are just fabrications. None of it is true. For example the Swedish Riksbanken is said to be Rothschild controlled but it's actually not even private, it's owned by the government and controlled through the parliament. All these anti-Rothschild conspiracies are ridicolous, sure they are a big and wealthy family and if you are then chances are pretty large that you didn't get all your wealth "naturally". The Rothschild got most of their wealth from predicting government fuckups. Anyway, these conspiracies have no proof except some 90s style websites and grainy youtubes. It's really something the liberty movement must distance itself from.

facts are facts...

None of it? The government is innocent of any 911 crimes...

Don't hate the player, hate the game!!!

Conspiracies continué taking

Conspiracies continué taking place,Rothschild, aka zionists, international bankers, Israel, etc.(they have assumed surnames of ???) The Libya event is The Américan people are lost in conspiracy theories, its too much bother for most to research historical events and root out fact from fiction, we have blindly accepted Hitler as being some evil man responsible for wwii and the holocaust of Jews... Nothing could be further from the truth. Google what jfk had to say about this great man in history. Watch the greatest story never told... Rothschild is the name of Hitler's greatest enemy very revealing, not to mention the 5 dancing israelíes that were here to document the event. The liberty movement is deeply rooted in/from conspiracies, they are many, they are not mear theories. Who is it with a deep history of owning/controlling media around the world?

Don't hate the player, hate the game!!!

ytc's picture

Noam Chomsky: My Visit to Gaza, the World's Largest Open-Air

Noam Chomsky: My Visit to Gaza, the World's Largest Open-Air Prison
Friday, 09 November 2012 09:03
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/12635-noam-chomsky-my-visi...

THIS is the present REALITY on the ground. . . that no reconstructed propaganda "narratives" can justify.