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Lincoln, good or bad?

I'm not sure why Lincoln is talked about so much right now. Obviously there is a movie out, and the Oreily book was talked about, so why the fascination with Lincoln all the sudden? Coincidence so many states have a petition to secede? Anyway, most people here know Lincoln was an abomination on the liberty front, but what about the fiscal side of him? Did he really try to stop the banks with the greenback? And does that make up for all the tyrannical stuff? Just thought I'd get some opinions here because a lot of people are talking about Lincoln right now.



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"The Real Lincoln" by Thomas DiLorenzo

is a must-read for any liberty-lover who cares about history and how it is represented. Growing up in the South, I was taught from an early age of Lincoln's tyrannical war to suppress Southern secession. "The Real Lincoln" covers the attrocious Lincoln committed against Southerners and Northerners alike who even as much as dared criticize the Union war effort.

Lincoln = King George

Both invaded a territory that seceded from their abysmal rule.

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The Greenback is not something to be prasied.

It was just another government fiat currency inflated to oblivion.

Lincoln's moral bankruptcy is easily matched by his economic illiteracy.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Lincoln was one of the worst, if not THE worst. His set-up...

of the civil war and the violation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights at practically every step along the way was unconscionable. Patrick Henry Warned us about such knaves.

He demanded a blockade against the South, an act of war, without consulting Congress.

He fortified Ft. Sumpter, thus tempting the South to Attack before being swamped.

He suspended the right to know what you were being charged with, and by whom.

He suppressed the freedom of the press.

He imposed martial law on the citizens.

and

Seized private property, no just compensation, of course.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Lincoln no good.

Read Politically Incorrect Guide To American History by Tom Woods.

Pandacentricism will be our downfall.

GoodSamaritan's picture

An incredibly evil man

who valued power more than human life. The CSA wanted to leave peacefully but dishonest Abe preferred murder and carnage.

Considering that he was personally responsible for destroying millions of families needlessly, it shouldn't matter what his fiscal policies were or if he was the greatest Austrian economist who ever lived. Nothing can make up for what he did.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

Lincoln

Married into a prominent slave owning family and most likely whipped some of the slaves there imo. He was a tall and imposing man, I think he could of been capable of it.

donvino

Abe Lincoln (videos)

Lincoln was a tyrant, plain and simple. He put people in prison who spoke out against the war (northern invasion). His Vice President was even worse! Read Thomas DiLorenzo's book "The Real Lincoln", it will open your eyes. His isn't the only book about how bad Lincoln was. Honest Abe wasn't so honest.
Here are 2 videos Judge Napolitano's Lesson on Lincoln:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CwkG2C5sAc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEDz9pUDx4Y

Yep

as I commented below I went and found Dr. Paul's comments on Lincoln and going to war over slavery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwM6v47j1bE

(start at the 25:00 mark)

Dilorenzo

Hey Prof. Dilorenzo,

Are you a neo-con?

The reason I ask is because, I recently heard a Stanford history grad/professor call you one. LOL

What can I tell him if I see him again? :)

Cheers,

donvino

Go read the Confederate Constitution for God Sakes

Go read the Declaration of Causes

Go read the speeches given by the Secessionist Commissioners

Then wonder NO MORE over WHY the Civil War was fought.

Go read the Confederate States Constitution
---And wonder no longer over the slavery issue

It was ALL ABOUT slavery -- Wars are ONLY fought to expand profit-drivers, protect profit-drivers, or obtain new profit-drivers; according to all world history.

Quote from the Confederate States Constitution:

"Article IV Section 3(3)
The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states"

They WANTED to expand Slavery -- As did the Bankers of England and France the South was DEEPLY in-debted too.

Noooooooo -- The South was not fighting for slavery and Lincoln was "evil" for protecting the rights of future generations of Americans.

Slavery was one of the main reasons why the

Gulf States seceded. Virginia, North Carolina, Tenessee, and Arkansas did not secede because of slavery however. They seceded because Lincoln was demanding they provide militia to invade the original 7 Confederate states. However, the war wasn't fought over slavery. It was fought by the North to preserve the union and squash secessionist. A lot of Northerners protectionists were terrified of having to compete with a free trade South, independent of tariffs.

Yes

the Civil War was definitely over slavery.

Lincoln wanted to end slavery, but as I understand it this was also a sort of power grab for the federal government.

Dr. Paul had a good answer for how he would have handled it when interviewed on Meet the Press in his '07/08 run. He said the way to do it, if I remember correctly, was to buy the slaves from the owners then set them free. Please someone correct me if I'm misremembering.

Anyway, my understanding is the federal government has a duty to uphold the U.S. Constitution, which does trump state law. That's why the 13th Amendment, making slavery illegal, was adopted.

Edit: I think this is the Meet the Press video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwM6v47j1bE

How many other countries can you name

That had to murder 700,000 of their own citizens to end slavery? Every other civilized western country did it peacefully. It had begun to wither away even in America, state by state. Lincoln specifically said if he could keep the union together without freeing a single slave, he would do that.

Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

I think he was a good one

I think this because of the greenbacks old Ab implemented. Maybe he's main reason for them were for generating income to fund his troops, maybe it was to get governments to print their own money. I do believe you can find some quotes on Ab were he points out the evil of private banks in control of the money supply. I'm biased because I'm not from America and I believe the only evil worth fighting for is the money scam run around the world today. Kill the corruption virus at its source and everything else will follow.

He also did get assassinated, and all other U.S. Presidents to have an attempt on their life usually follow the same trend of defying the money makers. So maybe he is a good one

source of the virus?

Its not a privately controlled fiat currency that is the source, its the fiat greenback money itself. I am honestly more worried about the imbeciles in congress controlling the money than the powers that be.

Greenbacks were a trick

I am not expert on the subject of lincoln or of green backs. However, my understanding is that he needed more money to slaughter more southern patriots and the interest rate the banks were going to charge him on his bonds was too rich for his tastes. Killing must be done cost effectively, you know.

So it is the same story with every war. Government needs money so government creates new money out of thin air. Greenbacks are the most obvious ones in history. He just had money printed up and forced people to use it.

no coin clipping, no fuss, just print and here you go!

It's my understanding the

It's my understanding the banks were the ones really pushing for preservation of the union (for obvious reasons), and had a vested interest in supporting Lincoln and the North's efforts. There really must have been something that wedged the two apart.

would not surprise me

If Lincoln and the banks had the same objectives. But there is no honor among thieves.

Banks back then were tight with their money and you got to remember the south was actually winning the war until Gettysburg.

If the southerns were able to break the blockade they would have beat the yanks, but they couldn't sell their cotton.

So it was a risky investment for banks. Risk brings a high premium.

Great bloody post

I was thinking the same thing regarding the bank issue.

If the bloody British indirectly supported the south along with the Czars perhaps he had limited options. Not saying he was an angel due to his lobbying efforts and mercantilism and tax policies.

donvino

I consider him to be...

...by far the worst of what I call the presidential Unholy Trinity, consisting of Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR. These three presidents, in my opinion, did more than any others to utterly destroy the already-weakened Constitutional restrictions on government, though Wilson can be disputed; I've considered replacing him with Teddy or Obama.

Refer to Thomas J. DiLorenzo for information about (title drop) "The Real Lincoln."

don't let Wilson off the hook.

imo Wilson is the worst simply because of his role as chair of the Paris Peace Talks following ww1. The world rejoiced the 14 pts - and Wilson crumbled under the pressure and approved the unjust Treaty of Versailles. This treaty led directly to WW2, Vietnam, Iraq, China becoming communist and the entire Israeli-Palestine conflict. I can go into detail (Ho Chi Minh was actually present as a representative of French controlled Vietnam - he wanted to read from the French Rights of Man and the US Declaration of Independence as reason why vietnam should become autonomous. He was told that they could read that on their own and to run along. He was bitter - and like China - was finished looking to the West, and began looking to the new system of the North - Communism.)

with all that blood on his hands - together with Income Tax and the Federal Reserve Act... my worst president.

My best presidents?
Martin Van Buren
Grover Cleveland
John Tyler

The best president was ...

... William Henry Harrison.

Took his oath of office, got pneumonia, lasted about a month in office, and died.

Didn't do any damage.

even better that following his epic fail of a death

Tyler took office and had a sudden change of heart from the Whig party line - he opposed the return of the national bank, kept the ind. treasury and vetoed internal improvements.
I like Tyler not only because of what he did, but more so because he opposed his party - whom would make sure he would not be elected to a second term.

Interestingly, Harrison died because he wanted to prove that he was still the tough Tippecanoe kinda guy. Gave his inaugural address on a very cold day... without a hat... or a coat... and his speech lasted over 2 hours long... he then contracted pneumonia and died - these days we would call this an 'epic fail'.

In his address Harrison promised the return of the national bank with a new feature - paper money for purposes of expansion of credit, as well as a full turn to the American system of henry clay.

The Worst President

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/106246.html
http://lysanderspooner.org/node/44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuEBEUeyX2k

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"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

This was posted here not too

This was posted here not too long ago, and didn't see it. Excellent article

http://www.dailypaul.com/263038/avoid-the-abraham-lincoln-pr...

In Tom DiLorenzo's book, "The

In Tom DiLorenzo's book, "The Real Lincoln" he talks about how Lincoln's main goal was to create a centralized state, which unltimately to centralize the currency. Lincoln was a strong idolizer of Henry Clay who fought against Andrew Jackson to implement and keep a central bank. Tom DiLorenzo stated that Lincoln should of been named the "The Great Centralizer" instead of the "the Great Emancipater". The Radical Republicans at this time passed the National Banking Act and Legal Tender Laws of 1862 that set the stage for the Federal Reserve Act to come 60 years later. In short, Lincoln pretty much destroyed the Constitution and repeated frequently that the Constitution got in his way to carry out the policies he wanted.

So did lincoln want to create

So did lincoln want to create his own central bank then? Ive read before that him giving the finger to the banks with the greenback was a possible reason for assasination. He just wanted centralization on his own terms then?

He did print money to pay for

He did print money to pay for the Civil War, (Greenbacks) because it was quicker and easier to pay for it. It wasn't until about 4 years after the war and Lincoln's assisnation that Congress decided to go back to the gold standard, which was government controlled.