18 votes

I was the libertarian black sheep at Thanksgiving.

My cousins were making fun of Papas Johns for opposing obamacare.

"I don't mind 11 cents per pizza if it means their workers have good healthcare."

I had no response. It was a purely emotional argument.

What would the rational Austrian response be to this statement? Make it simple. One sentence.



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There's much truth behind your humor :)

With those kinds of people it seems that keeping yourself composed and making them feel like they're not up to speed on something will prompt in them a desire to know what you do. It's a bit tricky and different with each individual but I find that saying something along the lines of, "this and that is going on but I don't think you're ready to hear the full details. It's not easy to grasp."

Just doing that, most people will need to feed their now diminished egos and may ask to know more.

I suggest anyone in this position spend some time going over dialogue options in their minds if/when faced with these people. Trick them to want to know more rather than trying to force something on them.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

"yeah, I would too, It's a

"yeah, I would too, It's a shame that santa doesn't exist though."

then follow up

"I don't oppose obamacare because I want to see people suffer, it's quite the opposite. I just realize that a bunch of lobbyists and politicians probably aren't going to be able to put together a coherent healthcare plan that is going to work for 300 million individuals that all have different needs and desires. There are solutions, but placing all your hopes on the lobbyists saving you seems just as silly as thinking santa could fix it."

I dont mind paying 11 cents more for pie when my healthcare

costs will rise by 200%, not all Americans are covered, and the rationing of health care services will ensure that when I need the care it is only months away. Sounds like a great trade off.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Just tell them it's stealing and it is..

Forcing a company to provide free stuff to you which has to be paid by people who do mind paying 11 cents more per anything..because it NEVER STOPS.

Tell them if they care so much, they should start a healthcare fund for me so that I can have it. Tell them I'll take my first payment next week, please ask them to give me their address so I can pick it up after they head to the bank.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

How about:

It's not a good idea, and not needed to make it a law, though, to achieve that.

Turn It Around On Them.

"I don't mind slavery, as long as we have good healthcare".

At their core, individuals who support socialized medicine are advocating for the violation of our basic liberties in order to provide a new fictitious human right - the "right" to healthcare.

This is very contradictory and impossible to defend. On the one hand they emotionally and morally support this new human right of Health Care yet they fully embrace and support the destruction of our existing (and eroding) basic human rights of property and money in order to bring about this new fantasy of Slavery Health Care. It's illogical!

Make them question how healthcare is now a right, but to keep what you own is now not a right? Ask them how "safe" people can be in a government in which health care is a right, but keeping your OWN property and money is impossible BECAUSE of this new right to health care? It's illogical and impossible for government to violate our liberties to "defend another liberty".

Attack them by turning their principles back around on them. It's been my experience that the socialists often argue this from a moral perspective even if they're atheist/agnostic. Turn that around on them and explain to them that the right to protect your life, property and money is more important than violating those liberties in order to provide free health care.

You can go further. Why not steal from everyone to provide the following;

Free food.

Free clothing.

Free housing.

Why is Healthcare more of a right than say a right to food, clothing or housing? Are those any less necessary? They may "dig in" if you embarrass them like this but you might actually be making more progress than you realize. In a few years you might have an ally. Always argue from the "I used to think like that" point of view. Let them know that you used to be the same, until you learned x,y,z. This can ease people into the idea that they're wrong because you also used to be wrong so they can calm their ego down a bit. Good luck.

Just tell them socialism

Just tell them socialism doesn't work in the long run. Just look at Social Security or Medicare. Short term, yea it's great that your grandparents are getting a check, but their grandkids are not going to see that check.

"Where liberty is, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin

In my experience

that isn't very effective unless you word it just so, because it always leads back to "but Social Security is good! If we didn't have it then old people would be lined up and shot!" and "it'll be reformed when I'm old enough to collect/that's too far away for me to care about!"

It's extremely difficult to get people to not want "free" things.

Americans have been conditioned to believe that they are nothing without the state. Perhaps they're right.

A signature used to be here!

»»»— taxation is theft —«««

... always throws dems for a loop. Follow up with a compare and contrast: street robbery ( omg he's got a gun! ) versus government tax-collection methodology ( it's ok he's got a shiny badge )

givemeliberty.org
larkenrose.com

inflation is stealing from the poor

... can get the brainwashed lefties to maybe start using their brains just a little tiny bit? { I can attest first-hand: Dems are the most brainwashed idiots on Earth }

Social Security numbers were sold against strong objections with the promise that these new numbers would never be used for identification. YEAH RIGHT . . .

Government doctors?

You couldn't pay me enough to visit. The only role for government doctors will be death management and denial-of-care. Get yourself wellness now, before you get yourself killed by allopathy !

"What else wouldn't you mind

"What else wouldn't you mind paying extra for if it meant every person had a Government issued car, house, and job?"
(you could also add TV, Clothes, Facebook, Food, and School from K-PhD)

Southern Agrarian

Something similar came up at

Something similar came up at my thanksgiving..... Obamacare adds closer to $2 per hour per employee.

How about:

"Who says Obamacare is good insurance?" or "What makes you think they don't already have good insurance?" or "What if it's $5 more?"

Hearing that Papa Johns opposes Obamacare makes me want to go out and buy their pizza.

"Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." -- Thomas Paine