-14 votes

Why Bitcoin Acceptance Should Be A Litmus Test Of Liberty Proponents

Dear Michael,

Please read this below, and really, really consider accepting Bitcoin for donations.

Whether an individual, merchant or organization is a true proponent of liberty should largely be measured by whether they accept bitcoins for payment or donations. After all, actions are much louder than words; particularly actions that are tied to money and currency.

By accepting bitcoins merchants protect their customers from potential identity theft or political persecution from purchasing liberty orientated products and services. Failure to accept bitcoins casts aspersions on their sincerity towards the fight for liberty because it leaves open the possibility of them being a honeypot.

read more here: http://www.howtovanish.com/2012/09/why-bitcoin-acceptance-sh...

Source: Trace Mayer, howtovanish.com

continued...

Failure to accept bitcoins for purchases or donations makes one either ignorantly, lazily or complicity a servant of the surveillance police state and tyranny and therefore accepting bitcoins makes an excellent litmus test for whether an individual or institution is a true liberty proponent.

WHAT IS A HONEYPOT?
A honeypot is a trap set to detect, deflect, or in some manner counteract attempts at unauthorized use of information systems. Generally it consists of a computer, data, or a network site that appears to be part of a network, but is actually isolated and monitored, and which seems to contain information or a resource of value to attackers. Honeypots are often used as bait to catch spammers and other malcontents nefariously using computing resources.

In the fight for liberty, an individual may become a honeypot either ignorantly or complicity. For example, suppose they sell a product or accept donations and use credit cards for payments. The transaction is stored, archived, databased and searchable forever with or without the consent of the merchant or consumer/donee.

Let us assume some malcontent wants to know who all the serious liberty supporters are so they can round them up and throw them in cages to later be exterminated. What would be the easiest way to identify and find them? Easy, query the transactional databases for how much money has been directed towards individuals or organizations that promote the ideas of liberties and sort by individual total.

Have you ever ordered The Law from Amazon, taken a Mises Institute course, bought Jim Willie’s newletter, bought gold or silver from GoldSilver or GoldMoney, subscribed to Doug Casey’s investing column, made a donation to LewRockwell.com, participated in Tom Wood’s Liberty Classroom, bought Gerald Celente’s Trend Research, bought from Alex Jones’ various products, donated to Ron Paul’s Campaign for Liberty, donated to Stefan Molyneux, subscribed to the incredibly insightful Robert Wenzel of Economic Policy Journal, subscribed to The Dollar Vigilante Jeff Berwick, consulted with privacy advocate Mark Nestmann, donated to GATA, joined The Sovereign Society, been considering purchasing the highly anticipated Silent Circle by PGP creator and Internet Hall of Fame Inductee Phil Zimmermann, used the VPN CryptoHippie, donated to AntiWar and countless others.

Well, perhaps you can send them this article in an attempt to persuade them to protect their customers and accept bitcoins.

Well, all of these liberty supporters currently do not accept bitcoin payments and could be or may become honeypots. Do you purchase or want to purchase their goods or services but do not want to be trapped by a honeypot?
Failure to accept bitcoins for purchases or donations makes one either ignorantly, lazily or complicity a servant of the surveillance police state and tyranny and therefore accepting bitcoins makes an excellent litmus test for whether an individual or institution is a true liberty proponent.

Want to know one group that is serious about liberty and shows it in their actions by accepting bitcoins? Libertopia 2012 where I will be speaking along with others like Doug Casey, Stefan Molyneux, Jeff Berwick and many others.

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Well Folks, The DAILY PAUL PASSED the LIBERTY TEST!!

I couldn't stop adding this one (last?) comment here!

Thanks Michael for at least trying this Bitcoin "thing"!!!

Congratulations on your fundraising drive! And thanks to all those who donated.

And for all the people who think bitcoin is "not anonymous" can you please tell me how much I donated!?! :)

Okay, I will answer for you... YOU CAN'T!

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

"Can I please donate to your organization?"

"No... we don't accept that form of payment."

Need I say more to drive the point home?

Donate to me in whatever form of payment you'd like... except perhaps cow dung and sea shells (Which have actually been mediums of exchange in the past/present depending on the culture/age).

Costs

When a competitor offers the same thing or better at a lower price the force of many individual decisions of many individual people, each having names, each trying to reduce their own costs, without sacrificing quality, are inspired to choose the lower price, which is a lower cost to all those people making all those choices.

That is the supposed Free Market, and the Free Market is just a term, not the actual people and not the actual decisions being made by all those people making all those decisions.

How much does it cost for anyone currently using Legal Fraud Money to stop using it?

The topic starter asks, in so many words, will is cost less to use something else instead?

If you do not "get it", then you may be one of two possible types of people, and there are as many types of people as there are numbers of grain in the sands on all the beaches on earth, but these two types of people are general characteristics shared by many of those people who belong in these groups because of those thoughts and actions that they share with each other as follows:

Group 1.
They prefer Fraud Money because they are Frauds and they make their living perpetrating Fraud upon the many victims.

Group 2.
The victims

So if you don't "get it", then go ahead and confess that you don't "get it", and when asked why, as you confess your state of thinking on this forum, in your own words, why do you shoot down the message, why do you shoot down the messenger? when asked why, confess even more if that is what you must do, and meanwhile this experiment in competitive Legal Currency, a choice, may grow, and if it does grow, and if it does challenge the Legal Frauds, then chances are those who are in Group 1 won't be using only words to shoot the message or the messengers, since these types of Free Money Market choices cannot be allowed to exist while Legal Fraud Money exists.

Check your wallet.

Check your "savings" accounts.

Check your "Retirement Accounts.

Check any investments of any kind that are denominated in the Single Legal Fraud Money produced by the Single Legal Group of Frauds at The Federal Reserve, those criminals who produce Federal Reserve Notes, and other fraudulent products, which you have bought, and which many have bet the farm on, and see what happens as those Frauds continue to enforce this:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

That is THE FRN denominated account.

Fraud is precise in how well it moves POWER from those who produce POWER to those who steal it.

So, naturally, those who steal it HATE COMPETITION.

Confess all you who are frauds, please, since knowing better is by definition better than being victims - perpetually - and passing that condition onto the next generation.

If the Liberty Dollar failed.

If E-Gold failed.

Their failure may help in understanding how to make a better money that does not fail to provide the demand for it without having the "quality" of moving POWER from those who produce POWER to those who steal it.

Who is threatened by money competition and why?

Are there really people who claim that Their Money has to be used by Everyone or else?

I think it may be a good idea to know the facts on this question.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amend...

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

Those who share the desire for a Legal Money Monopoly POWER are those who plan on taking more power with the power they steal.

They can steal all the POWER they can, so long as their victims fail to know better.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

Someone commenting on this forum, discrediting a credible competitor in money markets, works for the Monopoly Fraud Bankers.

Pro bono, or for a price, knowingly, or unknowingly, they work FOR the Monopoly Fraud Bankers if they discredit, injuring, by resort to deceit, a credible money market competitor.

Why?

Prejudice?

Joe

Joe,You hit the nail right on it's HEAD!

I totally agree with you, and seeing that this post now has -15 votes makes me really curious about all the FRAUD peddlers here!

You are right, all this post tries to do is to offer an option for people to choose. The article is trying to make a VERY HARD point, and all the opponents to this "litmus test" are quick to knock a strawman of Bitcoin, and even worse, completely FALSE, not even a "strawman", argument, and suggest that people somehow use their gold/silver stash to do what this article suggest: use a new system for supporting/donating/paying online, liberty proponents.

...i can hardly wait to see all the unfortunate negative voting for your and my comments... C'est la vie

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

I can help with that curiosity.

You spoke of litmus tests. I do the same thing. I can smell a rat with my litmus tests, and this is a very valuable skill.

This is the skill required to accurately distinguish, or discriminate, friend from foe.

Look here:

http://www.dailypaul.com/246669/rothbard-and-menger-trustworthy

What constitutes the full measure of that which is censored?

I have a competitive perspective on the subject of political economy, as you may have already measured, doing so accurately if that is in your power to do.

My effort, as poor as it may have been, to offer my viewpoint is met with negative 14 votes.

Your effort is met with negative 15 votes.

What does your perspective challenge competitively and competitively enough to inspire 15 negative votes?

What does my perspective challenge competitive, and is there a common denominator between our perspectives, and furthermore, is there a common denominator linking those who generate those negative votes?

"...i can hardly wait to see all the unfortunate negative voting for your and my comments... C'est la vie"

Resort to deception is a common denominator.

Joe

Ha ha, let's see who gets more negative votes!

I am tempted to down vote you and my posts!! :)

I guess this has become a race to the bottom as per the Gandhi quote people through around here all the time:

"First they ignore you, then they fight you...then you WIN!"

Hey all you down voters! Can you see where you fall...? Of course a valid and intelligent resistance is expected. And I am glad that at least we are finding "resistance" shows interest :)

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

Preference to avoid false assumptions

Stay happy George.

Even during the worst of times there will be a few people who keep on finding the will to pursue happiness.

When the Legal Criminals have made the dollar worth less than nothing and most of the dupes are still using it, as far fetched as that may seem to a logical mind, then the Legal Criminals usher in the Golden Answer on the White Horse delivered by the White Knight - to save the day - of course.

You may not be thinking I am speaking in riddles, since we two may be on a similar, if not the same, page.

Meanwhile, in between the enforced (by fraud and threats and violence) Money Monopoly denominated in Federal Reserve Notes and the New Bright Future with the replacement Monopoly Fraud Power (out with the old Monopoly boss and in with the new one), there are a few people, or many, relatively speaking, who see the value on the force of competition in legal money markets.

Ron Paul is one in that number, and I dare anyone to assume, falsely, otherwise, or in case I've made that mistake - prove it.

Joe

.

The free market should/will decide which currency rises to the top and no one else.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

People who are truly friends of liberty don't make demands via

litmus tests.

I'd bet though, the irony of your actions escapes you.

You can take your fiat bits and go to hell.

I see irony in your irony... or something to that effect! :)

I think it is your statements that show an "irony" of understanding.

If someone gave you a way of knowing what politicians advocate Ron Paul's style of LIBERTY, and tried to find 1, 2 or 3 main characteristics to look for in that person. What would you call the action of looking for those characteristics?

In this particular case, the author suggests to call that a "litmus test"

It is intended only for those who CARE, and those who seek to understand. All the others can simply ignore the whole thing (as per their LIBERTY)

You are attacking the messenger more than the message here, my friend, in my view

Oh, and ORDERING people to "Go to Hell" is nice. Excuse me if I don't pass that along to the well intentioned writer of the article.

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

I didn't order anyone to do anything. I said "you can..." One

is free of course, to not do so if they don't wish to. I'm not issuing a command. I'm effectively saying "feel free to go to hell, as this is where I think people who make such demands of others should go, but of course, I can't MAKE you go there."

The irony is the fact you can't see your nothing but a shill

If you honestly think bitcoin can "save" the system, you have not studied free markets, or what Ron Paul has taught. If you honestly knew what "Ron Paul's style of Liberty" was, you wouldn't have suggested it in the first place.

It's like someone saying, we should force them to close down Guantanamo by opening up a competing jail and saying "It's what Ron Paul was talking about when he talked about shutting it down".

I am reminded of a movie when hearing you speak of liberty, in the movie he says "You keep saying that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

"Inconceivable!"

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."—Inigo Mentoya played by Mandy Patinkin in The Princess Bride

Are people really so dense?

Bitcoin is yet another fiat currency that is unsustainable and doomed to fail. When will you Keynesians get it in your head something must be scarce to be valuable.

LOL

Bitcoins have absolutely nothing to do with being a Keynesian. It's the exact opposite if anything gold is more Keysian since you can still have a viable fractional reserve system with gold. With Bitcoin you can't do fractional reserve lending no matter how bad you wanted to. Loans would be 1:1 not 1:10 or 1:whatever as is the case with any other form of monetary system. You have to look at Bitcoin in a different light. Look at it as a monetary system not just as currency. Even with we had gold as currency but had a debt based monetary system with fractional reseve lending we would still be screwed!

The good thing about Bitcoin is that no one can change the Monetary System, no one can make up new rules. Another thing you can't print Bitcoin to infinity the system won't let you even if you wanted to. There will ever only be 21 million Bitcoins ever no more its built in to the system.

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    Not "dense" but understanding of "fiat"

    Fiat = by (government) decree

    Why do you think Bitcoin is fiat?

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    No, fiat does not necessarily mean by government decree.

    Anything that is "made money" by decree, rather than deriving from market interaction is fiat. The decree doesn't have to come from government, though it certainly can and this is most used.

    BitCoins are not a commodity that the market has settled on as money. They aren't even real. They exist only in your imagination, and they function as currency only because someone has decreed that they are currency. No one has to declare gold and silver to be currency for them to function that way. (though a decree can inhibit that activity for gold and silver if made with respect to some other currency, like FRNs)

    I'll give you this. BitCoins are an attempt to solve the problem of Coincidence of Wants without using a commodity to facilitate transactions. But due to their imaginary nature, they aren't taking off, and they never will. There are only a limited number of solutions to this economic problem, and this is dictated by the laws of chemistry and physics combined with the laws of economics. You won't create a new solution by ignoring economic laws and trying to focus only on the abstract.

    Take a peek..

    The term fiat money has been defined variously as:

    any money declared by a government to be legal tender.

    state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.

    money without intrinsic value.

    Patriot Cell #345,168
    I don't respond to emails or pm's.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

    You are misinformed

    Bitcoin doesn't fit any of those definitions.. so I have no idea why you'd call it fiat.

    .

    bitcoin is a redherring, unconstitutional and not considered legal tender and never will be.

    "OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

    Rand Paul 2016

    Bitcoins ARE scarce.

    They are scarce to the tune of 21,000,000 of 'em.

    That's it! No more, EVER!

    Please read on down the posts here, you may like this new IDEA if one main criteria for you is scarcity!

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    I'm a business owner and take

    I'm a business owner and take Bitcoin. Nobody has taken me up on it yet. It really doesn't matter that none of my vendors take Bitcoin, because from what I understand I can exchange for cash for the same 2-3% merchant rate I'm used to. I'm not going to turn away good money. I don't take any foreign currencies due to risk factors. I'd take gold and silver, if I knew how to validate it.

    Why push Bitcoin so hard?

    I don't think I've ever seen you post about anything else...

    A signature used to be here!

    Because of LIBERTY!

    I believe that Bitcoin is the ULTIMATE WEAPON against the FED

    This idea is a R3VOLUTIONARY as all the ideas I have learned from Ron Paul

    It has the potential to completely HALT the expanding government plague that is all over the world

    It has the potential to free people from the banker's clutch

    As the digital M-Pesa in Kenya is actually helping the poor more than anyone, you can imagine how much MORE POWERFUL a similarly digital but DECENTRALIZED and completely TRANSPARENT system like Bitcoin may REVOLUTIONIZE commerce

    Have you heard how when Columbian coffee farmers started selling their coffee DIRECTLY to their customers bypassing a whole slew of middlemen, paypal stopped them, and blocked them from doing it! Bitcoin transactions cannot be stopped!

    This may bring not only freedom in commerce, but there are already developments for how the blockchain idea may be used for fair elections, for making governments transparent and a million other amazing things!

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    Please inform me again where Ron Paul said "more fiat"

    Care to explain how this could possibly be for liberty. It is the exact opposite, it is the exact problem we are facing. You don't fix a problem by making a 2nd option of the exact same problem. Could it solve some of our problems? Yes, but years later when it is once again controlled by the same people running the fed now, we will be in the exact same position, in fact it could be far worse. They could lower its value to nothing because it is made of nothing. At least with my pennies I still have copper or zinc.

    This garbage you are spitting out makes me beyond disgusted. I see only tyranny in your words.

    Bitcoin is not a fiat currency.

    It is not even a "currency"... it is simply a way of transacting, using a very ingenious system, that controls FRAUD and the total amount of bitcoins in the system, automatically.

    Since the system looks to be hack-proof... and also not centrally controlled, it will quite possibly take over in a large way all the places where "the little guys" have not had a chance to use internet "barter" or finance, or banking... whatever you want to call it.

    It is liberty promoting because it does not constrict users with any rules and regulations that limit their ability to transact anytime anywhere cheaply.

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    This reply alone shows me you know nothing of currency

    1.Currency can be anything. Cigarettes can be currency. Anything someone will take in exchange for something, with the hope of buying something else they do need later, is currency.

    2.Your basing it on a system that could easily be changed. There is no such thing as hack-proof. If you took even a basic computer class, you would know that. If you know enough about how they work, anything can be hacked into.

    3.It IS centrally controlled. There is no way it accidentally came together all by itself on its own. I'm sorry Big Bang theologists. Those things simply do not happen in real science. There was a creator of bitcoin at some point. Someone has access to it, and when that person dies, someone else will have access to it.

    4.Liberty does not mean 'without rules and regulations'. Liberty means justice only where justice is due and nowhere else, that you are free to do anything you want, unless you violate another persons rights.

    You really need to go back and study more. On everything. Bitcoin is the exact same problem we are facing with the paper dollars. It's a "medium of exchange" that was created to fill a gap between transactions, and where does bitcoin get its amounts from? Do I buy bitcoin with Gold? US Dollars? Did you know there's 4x the amount of US dollars flowing in the world than the entire earths "goods network" is worth? Would bitcoin accept all of these dollars? Lets assume bitcoin DID replace US dollars, bitcoin would still have to adjust to the inflation from too many US dollars. Nothing would be solved.

    Please educate yourself before you reply, i don't want to hear another "I'm just a messenger" or "I'm promoting Liberty" without the knowledge to back it up.

    Eh

    That's like saying FRNs aren't currency, they're just numbers in a computer occasionally represented by paper with serial numbers.

    It's a fiat system.

    Eric Hoffer

    Sounds like

    Sounds like someone has a ton of Bitcoins and needs people to start accepting it so he can actually use them for something.

    Here's the problem, see if you can fix it for me.

    I'm a business owner. We enter into a transaction. I am doing a valuable service for you, in my case I am calibrating and repairing a gas detection device that can protect your life or that of your employees. I need to buy parts, pay employees, pay my rent, utilities, and taxes. None of these things go away no matter what I do.

    How do I use your Bitcoins to pay for the sensors I need? Will you convince my landlord to accept Bitcoins for rent? Will you explain to my employees that Bitcoins are superior, even though you can't buy food with them?

    You're trying to shift the pain off the person with the Bitcoins like there's some moralistic element at play when there's not. Market forces are all that count.

    Donations? SURE! Send me all you want. But not for my time.

    Here's an idea. YOU take the Bitcoins to an exchanger, and then bring me the FRNs which I can then spend on my suppliers to keep my business from going bankrupt. Otherwise all you're saying is, "But YOU can accept these and then go exchange them! It's your moral duty to do so!"

    No thanks pal.

    Eric Hoffer

    The article is about DONATIONs ... in Bitcoin

    I see your point, and it makes sense that you wouldn't want to take Bitcoin as it would be a "headache" for you at this time (and maybe for ever) just as the Canadian dollars seem to be.

    If I was a young business, I sure as heck would not turn away someone who was going to give me their time and "business" in EURO, CAD, GBP or whatever. As long as I knew I could exchange them.

    Anyhow, this article is about a completely different animal. It is saying that if someone wanted to easily, quickly and ANONYMOUSLY donate to a liberty site that advocates the PROTECTION OF FREEDOMS and that includes your RIGHT TO YOUR COMPLETE PRIVACY, well then it makes little sense to not accept something that does EXACTLY THAT.

    Of course, accepting bitcoins does not rule out other options, its just really strange that with this available, easy and FREE option, one would not offer it.

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]