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Why Bitcoin Acceptance Should Be A Litmus Test Of Liberty Proponents

Dear Michael,

Please read this below, and really, really consider accepting Bitcoin for donations.

Whether an individual, merchant or organization is a true proponent of liberty should largely be measured by whether they accept bitcoins for payment or donations. After all, actions are much louder than words; particularly actions that are tied to money and currency.

By accepting bitcoins merchants protect their customers from potential identity theft or political persecution from purchasing liberty orientated products and services. Failure to accept bitcoins casts aspersions on their sincerity towards the fight for liberty because it leaves open the possibility of them being a honeypot.

read more here: http://www.howtovanish.com/2012/09/why-bitcoin-acceptance-sh...

Source: Trace Mayer, howtovanish.com

continued...

Failure to accept bitcoins for purchases or donations makes one either ignorantly, lazily or complicity a servant of the surveillance police state and tyranny and therefore accepting bitcoins makes an excellent litmus test for whether an individual or institution is a true liberty proponent.

WHAT IS A HONEYPOT?
A honeypot is a trap set to detect, deflect, or in some manner counteract attempts at unauthorized use of information systems. Generally it consists of a computer, data, or a network site that appears to be part of a network, but is actually isolated and monitored, and which seems to contain information or a resource of value to attackers. Honeypots are often used as bait to catch spammers and other malcontents nefariously using computing resources.

In the fight for liberty, an individual may become a honeypot either ignorantly or complicity. For example, suppose they sell a product or accept donations and use credit cards for payments. The transaction is stored, archived, databased and searchable forever with or without the consent of the merchant or consumer/donee.

Let us assume some malcontent wants to know who all the serious liberty supporters are so they can round them up and throw them in cages to later be exterminated. What would be the easiest way to identify and find them? Easy, query the transactional databases for how much money has been directed towards individuals or organizations that promote the ideas of liberties and sort by individual total.

Have you ever ordered The Law from Amazon, taken a Mises Institute course, bought Jim Willie’s newletter, bought gold or silver from GoldSilver or GoldMoney, subscribed to Doug Casey’s investing column, made a donation to LewRockwell.com, participated in Tom Wood’s Liberty Classroom, bought Gerald Celente’s Trend Research, bought from Alex Jones’ various products, donated to Ron Paul’s Campaign for Liberty, donated to Stefan Molyneux, subscribed to the incredibly insightful Robert Wenzel of Economic Policy Journal, subscribed to The Dollar Vigilante Jeff Berwick, consulted with privacy advocate Mark Nestmann, donated to GATA, joined The Sovereign Society, been considering purchasing the highly anticipated Silent Circle by PGP creator and Internet Hall of Fame Inductee Phil Zimmermann, used the VPN CryptoHippie, donated to AntiWar and countless others.

Well, perhaps you can send them this article in an attempt to persuade them to protect their customers and accept bitcoins.

Well, all of these liberty supporters currently do not accept bitcoin payments and could be or may become honeypots. Do you purchase or want to purchase their goods or services but do not want to be trapped by a honeypot?
Failure to accept bitcoins for purchases or donations makes one either ignorantly, lazily or complicity a servant of the surveillance police state and tyranny and therefore accepting bitcoins makes an excellent litmus test for whether an individual or institution is a true liberty proponent.

Want to know one group that is serious about liberty and shows it in their actions by accepting bitcoins? Libertopia 2012 where I will be speaking along with others like Doug Casey, Stefan Molyneux, Jeff Berwick and many others.




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The article was not just about donations.

It was about payments/purchases and donations, so not "a completely different animal" with regard to what EricHoffer posted.

Whether an individual, MERCHANT or organization is a true proponent of liberty should largely be measured by whether they accept bitcoins for PAYMENT or donations...

By accepting bitcoins MERCHANTS protect their CUSTOMERS from potential identity theft or political persecution from PURCHASING liberty orientated PRODUCTS and SERVICES....

...Failure to accept bitcoins for PURCHASES or donations makes one either ignorantly, lazily or complicity a servant of the surveillance police state and tyranny and therefore accepting bitcoins makes an excellent litmus test for whether an individual or institution is a true liberty proponent...

{bold/caps emphasis mine}

My bad, I emphasized "donations" ...LIBERTY would've been better

Okay, I either should not have emphasized "donations" or should have emphasized both "donation" and "payment"

but

you have completely FAILED to emphasize LIBERTY products/services!!!

THAT IS THE POINT: L I B E R T Y ! ! !

Thanks for correcting me! :)

I will leave my "mistake" for posterity's sake, and to show I am human (still) :)

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

It's a matter of time before there is wider adoption

I own a gold and silver shop now and I take Bitcoin for bullion and scrap gold and silver. No one has ever taken me up on the offer yet but still if you wanted to buy from me and use Bitcoin I would gladly accept them. I'm starting a garbage removal company and I will be giving my customers the option to pay me in Bitcoin. Somethings happen a little bit a time.
Also just like you probably wouldn't taken Canadian dollars for your business doesn't mean that they are not worth something and that people aren't using them to buy goods and services. It's just not something that you are used to accepting does it mean that you couldn't do business if you decided to take Canadian dollars along side USD's?

  • New Jersey's Premier Junk Removal Junk Service!
  • Accepts Bitcoin
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    Check out my blog:
    www.yoanante.com

    It's the same point

    And Canadian dollars is an excellent point. My business is near the border, and I HAVE been offered Canadian dollars before. I don't accept them, and ask that they get them exchanged. Simple process, but they're asking me to spend my time and energy on it, and that means a loss in my book.

    The fact that you're starting a company and planning to accept Bitcoins is fine. It doesn't work in my business. There's nothing saying you SHOULDN'T be allowed to accept Bitcoin or anything along those lines in the Liberty book. However, claiming that a person isn't a true Liberty supporter because they don't accept Bitcoin is just absurd.

    If I can't use the currency to buy the things I want, it's worthless to me, that's the end of the story there for me.

    Eric Hoffer

    My lowest priced main supplier doesn't take bitcoin

    I would take bitcoin for sales, but my suppliers, which comprise 80% of my sales totals don't accept bitcoins. In fact, none of my suppliers take it, nor do my utilities, or anybody else I currently pay. Like taxes. Or dining out. Or local gas stations.
    Finally, one of my suppliers takes Paypal. So now I accept payment for our manufactured goods with Paypal.

    I was a member of e-gold and Moneybookers for years and nobody accepted them. I suspect it will take some time for bitcoin to be accepted by mainstream businesses. I looked a couple of days ago and the list is still lame.

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

    I take bitcoin

    and you can buy scrap gold and silver from me anytime.

  • New Jersey's Premier Junk Removal Junk Service!
  • Accepts Bitcoin
    www.powercleanouts.com
    Check out my blog:
    www.yoanante.com

    i think it's going to take time for a truly viable market money

    platform to emerge as well. it's not always monkey say monkey do, you tell people to take some newly formed, still non-credible money in their mind and they just mindlessly listen to you.

    btw i find people who hold opposing views against mine are usually of the type of pansies that mark down people's comments and chicken out, not daring to elaborate and putting their own opinions out there. i find it funny, coincidental and somewhat reassuring, if this is the type of people i am being contrasted against

    the only thing that stands behind the value of bitcoin is the

    credibility of this company.. which it has none because its founders are nobodys. if ron paul were to issue his own currency and put his personal credibility behind it, it might be worth something. but not these guys, no. i actually had some intuitive 'what if' moments when i was trying to brain storm on things about finance, 'what if in a future totally free market, individuals were allowed to issue their own currency and use their personal reputation as collateral?' it felt and still does to me like a completely logical idea, so long as there's some real trustworthy person behind it.

    i would buy a ron paul coin, whatever it's made of. bit coin issued by who knows what? nah. say their founder ceos wanted to change policy at any time and change the rate of circulation, create more or less of it and dilute its value at their own convenience, what's going to stop them? the horde of mindless bitcoin holders?

    you do realize if they signed a contract to be bound legally not ever to increase rate of circulation, the goodness of this promise is only good so long as their total liable asset in a lawsuit is under the market worth of total of their bitcoin clients? meaning if he can be sued for 100 million, then his promises are only good for 100 million worth of bitcoins out there? what small market this is.

    The credibility backing

    The credibility backing Bitcoin is the established science of cryptography. There is no company running it much like there is no company running the law of gravity.
    I suggest you do some research to find out how it works.

    Bitcoin is now three years old and worth $130,000,000 (total capitalization). If there were a vulnerability it would have been found by now.

    Where Bitcoin has most trouble is where it interfaces with humans. It does require a bit of a learning curve but so does gold.

    i have read that bitcoins get paid to people who run the servers

    and obviously that is new circulation into the existing bitcoin market, that right there already confirms an external human element

    I really want to help you understand

    ..but it may be a bit hard to do that... perhaps do a search on "introduction to Bitcoin" or something

    There are also a lot of good suggestions below for where to start. The thing you heard is quite... not even sure how to say this... well, it is: "Not even wrong!" :)

    "People who run servers" probably refers to "miners". They don't really get paid anything, they are "allocated" bitcoin depending on how "lucky" and dedicated they are in the amount of computing resources they through at the project

    Then, they can take those bitcoins and sell them to "external human elements" on international exchanges, on local markets, or buy things with them...or DONATE them.

    So I guess that is kinda what you wanted to know.
    here is a beginner's guide on the biggest bitcoin forum online:
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9430.0

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    There is no CEO

    of Bitcoin. It's totally decentralized just like their is no CEO of the internet. The way the system works can't be changed you can't just change the rate of circulation of Bitcoins it follows a mathematical pattern that is built in.

  • New Jersey's Premier Junk Removal Junk Service!
  • Accepts Bitcoin
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    www.yoanante.com

    A litmus test ...

    Recently we had pushy people attacking others that if they didn't vote for a certain candidate, they must be Romney trolls and enemies of liberty.

    Now Michael has to do your bidding and accept bitcoin, or else he must not be a real proponent of liberty.

    Good grief. Do these manipulative kinds of posts have no end?

    Is everyone already forgetting the recent past?

    Hey, the whole point is to have the option of ANONYMITY!
    If you think someone who uses "cash" and "bitcoin" or some other LIBERTY promoting medium of exchange, then what the heck are you doing here?!? Please read about the whole point of the LIBERTY MOVEMENT!

    The point is exactly what HAZE says, forget "bitcoin" think about LIBERTY and offer an online alternative to "cash"

    By the way, I hope people see why MANY here prefer CASH to VISA/MC/PP even if it is in FRN, right? If you don't get this please research, and come back and re-read the above article.

    Some sites take donations by having people "mail" money to them, I would do that, but that would be weird because you would have no way of knowing if it ever arrived. That is the other thing about Bitcoin, you can "see" that your favourite FREEDOM site got your donation.

    Oh, and the "recent past" I was talking about, you all remember RP supporters were labeled as TERRORISTS! I don't think those sentiments have changed very much in the database of our masters, and I am so sure that if you were to donate $10,000 to, hmmm, say WIKILEAKS... or even DAILYPAUL... you may be FLAGGED... "Just in case!"

    -okay, I AM SUPER PARANOID! AREN'T WE ALL?!? :)

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    If transactions themselves are not anonymous...

    ...and they wouldn't be with purchases of products and services, bitcoin as a medium of exchange would not solve the anonymity problem.

    There is still going to be a transaction trail with names and addresses.

    Forget about Bitcoin for a second..

    Let's imagine that you run a business and your friend comes to you and ask to pay for your goods/service with a new kind of money that he claims it protects him from a tyrannical government(maybe even a foreign government) and he tells you that you can accept this new kind of money from him without really carrying any risks because you can immediately exchange it back to a currency of your choice

    What do you think your friend will think after you turn him down? Do you think your friend will think you really believe in liberty? Be honest.

    I will

    Think my friend is a shiester for trying to pay me in a currency no one else will accept.

    "Here let me pay you in these worthless numbers!"

    The worth is determined based on what goods you can get for those numbers. If I cannot buy more goods to sell with what he gives me, I'm not accepting his form of payment.

    Eric Hoffer

    a SHIESTER? REALLY?

    Maan... do you think that about people who pay you cash?

    Or, well, you probably won't, since you are "used to" cash. But will you think that once everyone is "forced" to use Government issued digital cash (totally TRACEABLE etc...), and then someone comes and tries to pay you CASH... will you think they are allSHIESTERS?

    Just because he preferred the old way, where he wasn't TRACKED through all his transactions!?

    The point is: PROTECT PRIVACY!

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    That's not the point at all

    The point is that he's trying to pay me in something I can't use.

    For instance, he could also offer pay me in shiny rocks. They are untraceable, but the fact that they're untraceable doesn't give them worth. If they're gold or silver, I'd be willing to talk, but if it were quartz or sandstone, I'm really not interested, because I can't USE those rocks for anything.

    Do you get the point? I'm all for protecting privacy, but not for protecting someone else's privacy at my expense and in lieu of payment which has value for me.

    Eric Hoffer

    I would expect my "friend" to let me make up my own mind.

    My "friend" suggesting this new thing to me and asking me to consider it for whatever reasons is one thing. But my "friend" stomping his feet and being manipulative trying to back me into a corner with obnoxious pushiness and accusations is quite another.

    The latter would turn me off from that which they wish me to consider...and it would turn me off from the "friend" as well.

    My reaction and thoughts would be exactly that which took place in the recent example I gave with regard to some who were being pushy and hostile in attempts to ~persuade~ people to vote for a certain presidential candidate.

    Except that

    it's not the same as asking you to vote a certain way.

    Asking you to vote a certain way means you have to give up your own preference with regards to voting, asking you to accept bitcoins means giving up exactly nothing.

    There is virtually no additional expense to you to do what you friend is asking you and you are refusing because you're being judgmental and stubborn.

    You wanted me to be honest.

    What I described to you is EXACTLY how I'd feel if "friend" was making demands of me with such manipulative statements.

    You could substitute the part about bitcoin with just about anything and this statement would still be a turnoff:

    Failure to [fill in the blank] makes one either ignorantly, lazily or complicity a servant of the surveillance police state and tyranny and therefore [fill in the blank] makes an excellent litmus test for whether an individual or institution is a true liberty proponent.

    I have no opinion about bitcoin. I do, however, have an opinion about the style of ~persuasion~ being used here, and I've given it to you. Take it for what it's worth.

    Well keep on being stuborn

    but you and I both know that you're twisting my words saying that I suggested the friend demanded when I really said he asked for help.

    There's a difference. The article doesn't say you must offer to accept Bitcoin. The article says that you should help your fellow liberty proponent and accept Bitcoin and that you can't really call yourself a liberty proponent if you don't, but you go ahead and do what you will.

    No

    Your friend is offering you the equivalent of funny money and using his personal situation to influence your better judgement.

    He'd be better off offering shiny rocks.

    It's kind of obvious that you don't own a business and neither does the person writing the article.

    Lets say we convert my entire gross receipts into bitcoin acceptance. I now have an awesome business until I run out of FRNs I had left over. In fact, what I'd need to do is convert those bitcoins over to FRNs anyways to pay my suppliers, most likely incurring a fee from an exchanger who is taking a risk on the currency.

    Yeah I don't think so. What the article proposes is shifting the work of conversion from the "friend" and to the business owner. Nice friend.

    Eric Hoffer

    No, to your "NO" :)

    I think you are missing the point of what is CENTRAL to the article.

    It is not talking about any 'ol "business". You keep talking about your business and all the other "businesses" you do business with.

    This is SPECIFICALLY about LIBERTY MINDED SITES (businesses if you like). Meaning their product is LIBERTY! Usually that means they are giving/selling "information" and maybe even "tools" that help one FIGHT that which is NOT-LIBERTY!

    Now that is considered to be a bit of a "dangerous" fight in many people's view, and would like to remain anonymous.

    Your "business" has nothing to do with LIBERTY, even though you, yourself are obviously very much "liberty minded" :) And I think both HAZE and I love you for it, and so does every other LIBERTY MINDED supporter of the DailyPaul.com (I am excluding trolls here! :) )

    Do you know what I mean? I don't mean to seem pushy, or jumpy, or "feet stomping" or "manipulative". Just trying to find the exact point of our "misunderstanding" of each other

    ---- I LOVE THIS DISCUSSION, thanks for your time EH and JC ----

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    If

    If you're just talking donations, sure, it's definitely a great idea. Heck, MY business would accept donations of Bitcoins :)

    But honestly, I just don't think the OP is worded well if that's the case. Being a liberty proponent doesn't really have to do in this situation, and I think the argument should be reworded to:

    If you'd like the extra donations that Bitcoin users and supporters would be willing to spend/donate, then you should accept Bitcoin. By not accepting Bitcoin, you're missing out on a potential market.

    The stuff about "true" liberty proponents and that misses the mark with me, because it reeks of judgement and force. Just my two cents.

    Eric Hoffer

    Word

    !

  • New Jersey's Premier Junk Removal Junk Service!
  • Accepts Bitcoin
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    Check out my blog:
    www.yoanante.com

    In the case of a loss of all Power . .

    And digital communications, over a wide area, for a prolonged periods of time, I was told by Haze, that -

    Bitcoin is just math. You don't need a computer to store numbers, you can print them out, and send them via mail.

    http://www.dailypaul.com/264392/why-bitcoin-acceptance-shoul...

    A couple of key words there, "Print them out"? With what, and from what, You have no power? . . So the codes are in your head? . . Can you please answer this then.

    Who, Is going to accept that as a form of payment, will they be willing, in the case of having no power, to accept the code? How will they authenticatic it, and will they be willing to wait for as many days, weeks ,months, it takes for the power to come back on to receive payment, or can they pass on the code to some one else as payment, how will they then authenticate it, and will they trust it?

    In the case of no power, and no electronic communications, I would believe that most, at least I would be, taking cash on demand! and don't see how you would be able to faithfully use bitcoin, people I believe, would not trust it, in that case, making them worthless/useless. Please, show me how I am wrong?

    We are simply trying to expose the fact, that, there are flaws with bitcoin that you cannot avoid, So make you own mind up, while also understanding the risks.

    Without Electricity LIBERTY sites will be down too

    So there will be no need to support them.

    I think you are mostly correct, but the point is that if you use Bitcoin to STORE value, and not to actively exchange, you won't be affected by a powerloss, since your "keys" can be stored without needing electricity.

    You are very right that you will not be able to transact during the loss of power and communication, so we will have to turn to shiny stones or pebbles or feathers, whatever.

    But, if, let say, some power did work, and maybe even the phone system, and you could reach a part of the land/country/world where there is power you could mail, deliver, or "message/dictate" your secret key to recover that which was yours before all the calamity.

    Of course, you will be at the mercy of market forces and how they react to the huge loss of electricity in a big chunk of the world, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you will loose the value which you had stored in them. Why? Because it may be that while a huge number of users "loose" their bitcoins (if they didn't store them properly, print them, or created brainwallets, then there will be fewer available bitcoins for the remainder of users. So their bitcoins may go up in value especially if they see that even a powerloss didn't kill the whole network.

    Now, if there is a loss of confidence, then no amount of printing or remembering your brainwallet's key would save your bitcoin's value.

    But I wouldn't know which scenario will be the result of such an event.

    I am not even sure if there ever be such an event.

    There probably are some weird flaws with bitcoin, but this is not one that worries me in any way.

    Oh, and the option that you only use bitcoin for instant transactions and you only have/buy as many as you need at any particular time, well, then the loss due to electrical failure is really minimal.

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    Physical coins

    I bought several of these last year as a white elephant gift:
    https://www.casascius.com/

    It is a brilliant idea and is a good first step towards wider acceptance.

    Of course trust will need to be placed in Casascius or other enterprising individuals that do the same. Much like gold smiths in ancient times.