8 votes

"BITCOIN" posts get no traction here... WHY?

I just noticed something... I posted a bunch of really informative and useful links and stories here, and they are all being VOTED DOWN!

It just seems unnecessary, I mean, it is only information, and in my view it is EXACTLY fitting to the liberty message, and in line with Ron Paul's competing currency ideas.

So who is doing all the down voting of bitcoin related articles??

Any ideas?

-- maybe I don't quite see how this site works --

Dear Michael (Nystrom), it sure would be nice if we could see all the voting activity, not only the final vote count. It would make it more interesting to sort posts according to "activity"

here are my recent posts:

Expatriating from the United States? Consider this!

Wikipedia Accepts 'Enemies Of The Internet' Currencies

Why Bitcoin Acceptance Should Be A Litmus Test Of Liberty Proponents

The future of Bitcoin: new applications and rebuilding the banking system

Why do I bother trying to EDUCATE here about BITCOIN?

Gold vs Bitcoin

Here are other people's (GREAT) posts about Bitcoin:

Allten's Bitcoin Thread

Bitcoin Report Vol 26 with BrotherJohnF VIDEO

Adam Kokesh: What is Bitcoin and Why is it Important

Gold, Silver and Bitcoin: The ultimate interview by VisionVictory

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Just checked the current USD-Bitcoin exchange rate

$13.45

I'm kicking myself for not buying at $5.00!

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

A couple of things off the top of my head..

There is always a risk the internet gets shut down, what happens then? Bitcoins are inherently hard to understand, gold isn't.
Lets just say I'm still skeptical.

Mises.org
Know your stuff, learn real history and economics @LibertyClassroom.com

Some quick responses...

"There is always a risk the internet gets shut down, what happens then?"

Nothing, really. If the Internet never comes back up, then (potentially) Bitcoin is useless. But if that happens, I would think that we would all have bigger issues to worry about. A temporary Internet interuption, even lasting years, wouldn't effect Bitcoin in any significant way.

" Bitcoins are inherently hard to understand, gold isn't."

Verifing a gold coin is a technical skill, that very few people possess in our modern world; and is a task further complicated by the advancements in technology that can create credible counterfits. I know that I couldn't tell that some of these fakes were not just tungtsun rounds plated in gold. Bitcoin, however, is verified only using very complex mathmatics. Not the kind that I could do myself, mind you, but the kind that is trivial for my computer (or even my cellphone) to manage. Thus, no assayer is necessary.

Chinese inscription, "All counterfeiters will be decapitated."

[With trepidation let me wade in... MT]

Oriental Cutlery, 1,100 B.C.: Chinese moved from using actual tools and weapons as a medium of exchange to using miniature replicas of the same tools cast in bronze. Nobody wanted to ... impale their hand on a sharp arrow so, over time, these tiny daggers, spades and hoes were abandoned for the less prickly shape of a circle, which became some of the first coins. Although China was the first country to use recognizable coins, the first minted coins were created not too far away in Lydia (now western Turkey).

Coins and Currency, 600 B.C.: Lydia's King Alyattes minted the first official currency. The coins were made from electrum, a mixture of silver and gold that occurs naturally, and stamped with pictures that acted as denominations. In Sardis, circa 600 B.C. a clay jar might cost you two owls and a snake. Lydia's currency helped the country increase both its internal and external trade, making it one of the richest empires in Asia Minor. It is interesting that when someone says, "as rich as Croesus", they are referring to the last Lydian king who minted the first gold coin. Unfortunately, minting the first coins and developing a strong trading economy couldn't protect Lydia from the swords of the Persian army...

Not Just a Piece of Paper: Just when it looked like Lydia was taking the lead in currency developments, in 600 B.C., the Chinese moved from coins to paper money. By the time Marco Polo visited in 1,200 A.D., the emperor had a good handle on both money supply and various denominations. In the place of where the American bills say, "In God We Trust," the Chinese inscription warned, "All counterfeiters will be decapitated."

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

I like

that inscription!

It's a good thing it's mathematically impossible to counterfeit a Bitcoin, and the 21 million coin limit can't be raised or further inflated by anybody!

I think Bitcoin will reach $1700.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, but it is based on "fact"

It was a really interesting article that did an analysis of Bitcoin's potential. Since it is a bit "unconventional" and not talked about it much, you will probably not find that article too easily.

I will share it if I get 10 plus votes on this comment. Okay! Can I please have one comment with +10 votes? :)

Oh, the reason I am asking for this is because I know it will take time for me to find it... I've did a quickie search for it before and couldn't find it. So please give me some "love" before I go research/work to find it for you all!

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

YES! Thanks for finding the article... YOU FOUND IT!

Thanks MoonShadow!

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

premise

The basic premise of why Bitcoin will reach high amounts is the potential if they ever gain market share as a currency.

If there are $14 trillion dollars in existence and 10 million Bitcoins in existence, if Bitcoins were to replace the dollar they would need to cost $1.4 million each.

If Bitcoin gained just 1% of the dollar currency it would be worth $14,000 each.

Just .1% of the dollar currency and they would be worth $1400 (your $1700 may have been when there were less Bitcoins).

If one day they became the world currency replacing all currencies...

All I can say is, it would be worth dropping $13.50 to just have one you can store for a long time.

So much

for no traction!

  • New Jersey's Premier Junk Removal Junk Service!
  • Accepts Bitcoin
    www.powercleanouts.com
    Check out my blog:
    www.yoanante.com

    YEAH! "No Traction" for Bitcoin on DP! WAS I WRONG!

    I was just curious, I counted my own responses compared to the 254 comments here on this "No traction" post

    Happy to report, that I am not the one making all the posts! I posted about 34 of the comments. The rest is from the WONDERFUL DailyPaul community! Including all your nice Trolls...okay, there may only be a few of them. Actually, I am not even sure if there are any... :)

    THANKS FOR EVERYONE! You have restored my faith in YOU!

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    So much

    for another elastic currency. Bitcoins isn't a solution just another problem.

    I want a currency that is fixed like gold was decades ago.

    And if you think you and a few people bumping this thread and making comments is gaining traction you are wrong. This isn't even lukewarm.
    7+ and it isn't anywhere but here. Quit fantasizing the market has spoken on this long ago.

    November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
    "We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

    Yup fixed

    and able to be manipulated and inflated by a fractional reserve system. Wake up gold is great but its the system that's screwed. If we pegged the dollar to gold today at say 1 dollar equals 1/50 of an ounce of gold it would fix nothing if we still used fractional reserve banking. The only way a gold standard would work would be to make the reserve requirement 1 to 1. Thats it.

  • New Jersey's Premier Junk Removal Junk Service!
  • Accepts Bitcoin
    www.powercleanouts.com
    Check out my blog:
    www.yoanante.com

    Problem

    It is a problem for the banks.

    If I buy $100,000 of bitcoin

    If I buy $100,000 of bitcoin at $13, and I sell it at $130, do I have to pay capital gains tax on the $900,000 increase?

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    "Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
    People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

    Exchanges

    You could buy a painting and sell that painting making $900,000. It would be the same thing taxwise.

    But if you buy that painting and it gains $900,000 in value and you never sell it, then you pay nothing.

    Precisely. Its no different

    Precisely. Its no different than gold, stocks or anything else valued in dollars/currency. There are several exchanges giving bit coins a dollar/currency value that the IRS can attach to it.

    Now if bit coin had no dollar/currency value...

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    "Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
    People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

    Value

    Everything has dollar/currency value.

    You could trade that $900,000 painting for a house. You would face the same tax consequences of paying $900,000 worth of Bitcoins for a house.

    No dollar has to be exchanged. It is just more difficult for the IRS to track the gained value of a painting when it was evenly traded for a house. Same with Bitcoins and never converting them back to dollars and instead using them to purchase things.

    As for me, I claim every single thing for the wonderful IRS man who may potentially be reading this. I file every form and audit every transaction I make at the end of the day keeping detailed records of everything so that I am in compliance.

    ...$900,000 worth...And how

    ...$900,000 worth...

    And how much tax would I have to pay if I painted your house for 50 bit coins, and bit coins did not have a discoverable dollar value?

    I could TRUTHFULLY file a tax return claiming ZERO dollar income from that job. But since there IS a discoverable dollar amount attached to bit coin, the same is not true.

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    "Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
    People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

    Everything

    Everything has a dollar value to it and legally is supposed to be claimed.

    If you painted my house and I gave you an antique watch which has not been appraised, it would still have a dollar value even though you have not appraised it. Legally you would have to claim the earned value that you were paid.

    Yes, it is bartering. And

    Yes, it is bartering. And per IRS I would have to put a dollar value on painting your house, not the watch, but a dollar value on my services...which all makes me wonder, what is the point to these bit coins anyway?

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    "Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
    People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

    The point

    "what is the point to these bit coins anyway?"

    The point is that they are a limited supply commodity that can be used as a currency with the ability to do more than any other currency under no central control.

    For me it is a hedge against inflation as well as a piece of technology that will allow us to do innovative things that have only just begun to crop up. As well as allowing for the eventual replacement of banks with your own personal Bitcoin "account", controlled only by you.

    It is not about avoiding taxes.

    Why do you think Bitcoin will go upto $130? That would be a 10x

    gain.

    Do you know something? Please share!

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    Great question!

    Your question points to the exact issue that was central to some of the most important and least "heard" hearings Ron Paul organized in congress on:

    Competing Currency Laws.

    The question applies to Gold as well. The whole point of the liberty movement could be to focus on this ISSUE.. and it is doing it indirectly by promoting Gold. In my view, the problem of the drive to Gold is that there is a transfer of wealth happening at the moment, and it is being transferred to those who have a lot of gold (hint, they are not the "good" guys!)

    So that is the problem. If Gold or Bitcoin go up in value under current legal tender laws everyone will be taxed. Except of course if you just use your gold or Bitcoin without ever going back to FRN's.

    This is where Bitcoin has unbeatable potential in my view. It has the potential for global adoption, because it is so easy to transfer! Gold is a bit heavy in that department. :) Sorry gold bugs. You may be stung by the taxman in a much more direct sense than the Bitcoin bugs will be.

    I am obviously just speculating here, and throwing ideas in the air, so do not in any way confuse my comments as some kind of legal advice.

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    There have been threads

    at bitcointalk.org related to tax issues. Here is one:

    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17372.0

    So it sounds like "yes, it is

    So it sounds like "yes, it is taxable" but its not reported so you can "get away with it". Is this correct?

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    "Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
    People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

    I would say

    it's the same as gold. It's possible to buy and sell gold without paying any capital gains taxes if that is your goal. Whether or not that is wise according to tax law is another story.

    I am not a tax expert.

    I'm just wondering if this

    I'm just wondering if this path to "liberty" could in fact be the direct road to incarceration...not to mention more fuel toward government control of the internet since indeed bitcoin cannot exist in a widely usable fashion without the internet.

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    "Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
    People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

    The only direct

    road to incarceration is breaking the law. (or I guess being labeled a terrorist)

    It's possible to go to jail for the way you use dollars. It's possible to go to jail for the way you use gold/silver. It's possible to go to jail for the way you use bitcoins too I imagine.

    In other words, it's your actions/activity that gets you in trouble.

    There is a legal section at the forum at bitcointalk.org, as well as lawyers that actively support Bitcoin if you're interested.

    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=74.0

    Bitcoin is simply a commodity, like Facebook credits. It's true it's now in a sort of legal gray area, undefined. However, it is not illegal to own and use bitcoins (currently).

    Also, Bitcoin is global, so it's not completely under the jurisdiction of the U.S.

    Obummer

    Obummer to the Bernank: Is this bitcoin a threat?
    The Bernank to Obummer: Yes!
    Obummer to his head of national security: Is this bitcoin a threat?
    Head of national security: Yes!

    (Obummer signs executive order #666 whereby the use of bitcoin is forbidden and any found using it is declared an 'enemy of the state'.)