10 votes

"BITCOIN" posts get no traction here... WHY?

I just noticed something... I posted a bunch of really informative and useful links and stories here, and they are all being VOTED DOWN!

It just seems unnecessary, I mean, it is only information, and in my view it is EXACTLY fitting to the liberty message, and in line with Ron Paul's competing currency ideas.

So who is doing all the down voting of bitcoin related articles??

Any ideas?

-- maybe I don't quite see how this site works --

Dear Michael (Nystrom), it sure would be nice if we could see all the voting activity, not only the final vote count. It would make it more interesting to sort posts according to "activity"

here are my recent posts:

Expatriating from the United States? Consider this!

Wikipedia Accepts 'Enemies Of The Internet' Currencies

Why Bitcoin Acceptance Should Be A Litmus Test Of Liberty Proponents

The future of Bitcoin: new applications and rebuilding the banking system

Why do I bother trying to EDUCATE here about BITCOIN?

Gold vs Bitcoin

Here are other people's (GREAT) posts about Bitcoin:

Allten's Bitcoin Thread

Bitcoin Report Vol 26 with BrotherJohnF VIDEO

Adam Kokesh: What is Bitcoin and Why is it Important

Gold, Silver and Bitcoin: The ultimate interview by VisionVictory



Trending on the Web

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The point

"what is the point to these bit coins anyway?"

The point is that they are a limited supply commodity that can be used as a currency with the ability to do more than any other currency under no central control.

For me it is a hedge against inflation as well as a piece of technology that will allow us to do innovative things that have only just begun to crop up. As well as allowing for the eventual replacement of banks with your own personal Bitcoin "account", controlled only by you.

It is not about avoiding taxes.

Why do you think Bitcoin will go upto $130? That would be a 10x

gain.

Do you know something? Please share!

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

Great question!

Your question points to the exact issue that was central to some of the most important and least "heard" hearings Ron Paul organized in congress on:

Competing Currency Laws.

The question applies to Gold as well. The whole point of the liberty movement could be to focus on this ISSUE.. and it is doing it indirectly by promoting Gold. In my view, the problem of the drive to Gold is that there is a transfer of wealth happening at the moment, and it is being transferred to those who have a lot of gold (hint, they are not the "good" guys!)

So that is the problem. If Gold or Bitcoin go up in value under current legal tender laws everyone will be taxed. Except of course if you just use your gold or Bitcoin without ever going back to FRN's.

This is where Bitcoin has unbeatable potential in my view. It has the potential for global adoption, because it is so easy to transfer! Gold is a bit heavy in that department. :) Sorry gold bugs. You may be stung by the taxman in a much more direct sense than the Bitcoin bugs will be.

I am obviously just speculating here, and throwing ideas in the air, so do not in any way confuse my comments as some kind of legal advice.

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

There have been threads

at bitcointalk.org related to tax issues. Here is one:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17372.0

So it sounds like "yes, it is

So it sounds like "yes, it is taxable" but its not reported so you can "get away with it". Is this correct?

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

I would say

it's the same as gold. It's possible to buy and sell gold without paying any capital gains taxes if that is your goal. Whether or not that is wise according to tax law is another story.

I am not a tax expert.

I'm just wondering if this

I'm just wondering if this path to "liberty" could in fact be the direct road to incarceration...not to mention more fuel toward government control of the internet since indeed bitcoin cannot exist in a widely usable fashion without the internet.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

The only direct

road to incarceration is breaking the law. (or I guess being labeled a terrorist)

It's possible to go to jail for the way you use dollars. It's possible to go to jail for the way you use gold/silver. It's possible to go to jail for the way you use bitcoins too I imagine.

In other words, it's your actions/activity that gets you in trouble.

There is a legal section at the forum at bitcointalk.org, as well as lawyers that actively support Bitcoin if you're interested.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=74.0

Bitcoin is simply a commodity, like Facebook credits. It's true it's now in a sort of legal gray area, undefined. However, it is not illegal to own and use bitcoins (currently).

Also, Bitcoin is global, so it's not completely under the jurisdiction of the U.S.

Obummer

Obummer to the Bernank: Is this bitcoin a threat?
The Bernank to Obummer: Yes!
Obummer to his head of national security: Is this bitcoin a threat?
Head of national security: Yes!

(Obummer signs executive order #666 whereby the use of bitcoin is forbidden and any found using it is declared an 'enemy of the state'.)

Obummer to the Bernank: Is

Obummer to the Bernank: Is this gold a threat?
The Bernank to Obummer: Yes!
Obummer to his head of national security: Is this gold a threat?
Head of national security: Yes!

(Obummer signs executive order #666 whereby the use of gold is forbidden and any found using it is declared an 'enemy of the state'.)

Riiiiight

even if this happened..

There's still the rest of the world where it's legal. Not to mention Bitcoin works in a peer2peer manner and making it illegal might just do for it what it has done for the war on drugs.

So now are you saying that my

So now are you saying that my $900,000 is tax free?

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

I didn't say

that. I (essentially) said it's possible to get into tax trouble many ways.

If you're concerned over bitcoins and taxes consult a tax professional. It's that simple. To my best knowledge someone who did this (with H&R Block) came away with bitcoins being classified as a "hobby".

Have my doubt that the IRS

Have my doubt that the IRS would agree with HR Block that $900,000 is a hobby.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

If you're unsure

then reserve an extra 5-10% (or whatever) to pay the correct tax if it ever comes into question. That's what I'd do.

I also have my doubt that HR

I also have my doubt that HR Block would sign a return they had prepared claiming $900,00 profit as a hobby. I other words, back to the "can get away with it" philosophy.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Obviously

the person I'm referring to wasn't dealing with almost one million dollars in capital gains...

And, no, I personally wouldn't advise trying to hide that much from the IRS.

$1 in capital gains is just a

$1 in capital gains is just a taxable as a $1 million. If the government can confiscate you're computer and memory devices s well as intercept your internet activity , how much CAN you hide?

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

I never

said to hide anything. Meticulously report every penny if that's how you operate. Why are you trying to make it seem difficult?

You said you wouldn't advise

You said you wouldn't advise hiding "that much". So I ask, how much CAN you hide? Now you say every penny should be reported. But then you told me that you know of someone that reported their capital gains as a hobby...

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

People

report taxes differently. My advice is consult a tax professional. Simple.

In the beginning of

In the beginning of BrotherJohnF's report he mentions the "Block Reward". What is the Block Reward and who determines it?

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

The first thing

to understand about Bitcoin is nobody determines anything. All the rules have been pre-determined. If somebody changes something now, like how many coins there are, it is no longer Bitcoin. It's something else. The network (made up of all Bitcoin users) continually validates which coins are valid Bitcoins, the ones that adhere to the determined rules. It is mathematically impossible to create a fake or counterfeit bitcoin, one that doesn't follow the network's rules.

The block reward is how bitcoins come into existence. Bitcoins enter the money supply by "miners" which are computers that solve a hard mathematical problem. The difficulty of the problem is automatically adjusted such that the rate of bitcoin creation follows a pre-determined rate.

From the start of Bitcoin in 2009 until recently (a few days ago) the block reward was 50 coins per block. On average miners find a block approximately every 10 minutes; that means about 7K new bitcoins come into existence every 24 hours.

The block reward is now 25 coins per block. It halves approximately every 4 years, making Bitcoin a deflationary currency, as opposed to an inflationary one.

So this Nobody wrote the

So this Nobody wrote the original protocol?

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

I mean

nobody determines anything now. As I said everything is already pre-determined. And everybody expresses agreement to the rules by using the software.

Deflationary? "June 9, 2011

Deflationary?

"June 9, 2011 the total Bitcoin economy was valued at $210,000,000,
September 28, 2011 the total Bitcoin economy was valued at $36,126,021.96
October 17th, 2011 the total Bitcoin economy is now valued at $19,000,000"

Bitcoin is valued in Dollars, and other fiat currencies. It is therefore tied to the value of those currencies. It has increased in value since inception, but a look at a long chart shows that bit coin is anything but stable. It is a gamble just as any other investment is. There is no guarantee that it won't be worth $0.01 tomorrow, and I imagine that if the IRS came out with a big announcement pertaining to bit coin, it would drop pretty quickly.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Yes

Bitcoin is deflationary. The amount of Bitcoin units in existence over time follows a deflationary arc, not an inflationary one.

As for the value of bitcoin rising or dropping, yes, it certainly can go either way, and rapidly. Nobody I know has ever said it can't. People speculate (and invest) on this in fact, with differing opinions.

They are priced in fiat

They are priced in fiat currency. They are neither inflationary nor deflationary, just as a limiting the number of shares of a stock does not make them inflationary or deflationary. It is their basis, the Dollar or whatever currency that one uses, determining their price/value.

Today the bit coin is priced at $X.XX. If it was its own currency you would instead just be talking about X.XX bit coins. You would only know their value by negotiating a deal for a product.

As said above, they are a commodity. They are not a currency anymore than gold coins, silver coins or pork bellies are a currency. Their value is subject to speculative forces, as is clearly seen in the long term bit coin chart.

I'm a specualtor. I might would consider trading them except that the IRS could come out with their opinion on bit coin and knock any kind of floor out from under. And if the price of bit coin takes off, you can bet every last one of your 1's and 0's that the IRS WILL get involved.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

I don't think

you understand what inflationary and deflationary means.

Here is a hint: gold is also priced in fiat. But gold is not an inflationary currency.

lol why don't you get a grip?

Why all the ego stubbornness when arguing with each other? Can't you get a grip and put a little effort into maybe trying to communicate effectively before you get upset the other guy doesn't get it?

What does it even mean inflationary or deflationary? If you mean that gold or bitcoins because they're scarce seem to be gaining in their value when met with increased demand do you call this deflationary? Or how about dollars, when massive amount of debt can't be paid off but was lent under a fractional reserve system and now a bunch of money supply just vanishes, is dollar then deflationary? Or how about gold of which there is more in circulation every second that mining goes on anywhere in the world, would you call gold inflationary then? Or how about bitcoins once all of them are issued and some are lost because of lost keys is this why bitcoins are deflationary? Or are they inflationary since right now there's about 10,6mio while the max will be 21mio?

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SAYING?!

Just get a grip. Calm down. Communicate clearly and precisely and then see if the other guy doesn't agree.

If you ask me, gold is inflationary until all of it is mined, the price of gold however is deflationary because the production of all other goods has a higher pace than the mining of gold.
Bitcoins are inflationary right now until all of them are issued but once that happens they'll become deflationary because some of them will be lost due to carelessness. But the exchange rate of bitcoins is deflationary given that they are scarce and there seems to be a growing demand.

FFS.