8 votes

"BITCOIN" posts get no traction here... WHY?

I just noticed something... I posted a bunch of really informative and useful links and stories here, and they are all being VOTED DOWN!

It just seems unnecessary, I mean, it is only information, and in my view it is EXACTLY fitting to the liberty message, and in line with Ron Paul's competing currency ideas.

So who is doing all the down voting of bitcoin related articles??

Any ideas?

-- maybe I don't quite see how this site works --

Dear Michael (Nystrom), it sure would be nice if we could see all the voting activity, not only the final vote count. It would make it more interesting to sort posts according to "activity"

here are my recent posts:

Expatriating from the United States? Consider this!

Wikipedia Accepts 'Enemies Of The Internet' Currencies

Why Bitcoin Acceptance Should Be A Litmus Test Of Liberty Proponents

The future of Bitcoin: new applications and rebuilding the banking system

Why do I bother trying to EDUCATE here about BITCOIN?

Gold vs Bitcoin

Here are other people's (GREAT) posts about Bitcoin:

Allten's Bitcoin Thread

Bitcoin Report Vol 26 with BrotherJohnF VIDEO

Adam Kokesh: What is Bitcoin and Why is it Important

Gold, Silver and Bitcoin: The ultimate interview by VisionVictory




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ok understood, but now please tell me

how could I possibly use bitcoin to buy some cigars in a remote village somewhere? for arguments sake, we'll give them electricity...and you what else we'll even give those villagers an Ipad and a WiFi connection compliments of Bill Gates.

Now all I have to do is convince these villagers to sign up for a bitcoin account, explain to them what a distributed ledger system is and how safe it is because of "block chains" and we're all set right?

or did I miss something?

I don't get it

What do some people in some village matter to you? Your every day life needs are not met in a remote village, your every day life needs are met in a modern society and if you happen to go to a remote village and you know that you wont be able to use Bitcoin over there you prepare accordingly.

What do you think I had to do before my country joined the EU, every single time I crossed the border into another country, ANY country, I had to convert our national currency into something else in order to be able to pay for stuff, but I and everyone else in our country still called our currency money and it functioned as money in this area.

I feel like you're grasping for straws to find the smallest possible excuse to bash Bitcoin. Why don't you just try it, own $10 worth of bitcoins and play around with it a bit and then let us know how bad it is?

you don't get it because you aren't listening

I use the village example to illustrate the point that bitcoin is at a severe disadvantage if you are not connected to the internet or have electricity.
I tried to use this example because it is life at its most basic, but you just look right past the obvious talking over me and anyone else that tries to bring you back down to earth.
It is bitcoin, electronic currency, nothing more nothing less.

get over it.

The answer

is simple.

Look, Bitcoin does NOT have to be all or nothing. That's, I think, what people here are most confused about. They think if there is one small way bitcoin can't perform like dollars or gold then it is totally useless.

That is not the case. Bitcoin doesn't have to replace fiat currencies; it doesn't have to replace using precious metals. It can be used alongside anything as people wish, and have value where ever it does. Remember Liberty Dollar and eGold? Did those currencies fail while they were in use because you couldn't use them in a remote village? You couldn't use eGold without power either, but it was very successful and had value until the feds shut it down.

Anyway, to answer your direct question about power there are ways to use bitcoins without power. Two ways being experimented with are physical bitcoins and paper notes.

Just ask any Safe Manufacture

If someone can make it than another person can break it. Nothing is unbreakable, unsinkable or uncrackable. It may be super duper difficult but its not impossible.

But is that not also true of FRNs?

The shah of Iran had a US dollar printing press.

The fed counterfeits more money legally than all other money in the history of the world added up over all time ever.

Not to mention your hacker counterfeits, white collar embezzelers, Nixon rubber mask wearing grandma local bankrobbers, etc.

Still trying to be convinced there's a difference.

Full disclosure, I'm not a bitcoin user NOR bitcoin fan. But I'm reading very weak and assailable arguments against it.

The only way to 'break'

The only way to 'break' bitcoin would be a 51% hash attack, which at this point in time would require 324.47 PetaFlops of continous computing power. Which is roughly 8 times what the top 10 (unclassified) supercomputers on Earth could manage combined. And even a successful 51% attack is limited in what kind of damage it can do, and is as temporary as the attackers' ability to maintain that kind of computing power. So no, not impossible; but astronomically unlikely. It really would take nation-state resources to even try it, and even then it's doubtful that the costs could be justified continously. The weak points in the bitcoin system are known, and provided for. This is exactly what the 'miners' are doing; a massive, collective & preemptive brute forcing of the network, continously.

There is literally no way to steal all the coins, to destroy the coins, or to counterfit the coins. If you believe that there is, then you don't understand how the cryptography is being used. I do understand, and even cryptologists view how bitcoin works as a novel use case. The only countermeasure is brute force computation, and again, the network is *continously* doing exactly the same thing to strenghten the network. It would likely be simpler to shut down the Internet, and even that might not prove to be fatal.

not all hacking is electronic

social engineering is a large part of it.

and here is a quote from the introduction to bitcoin by the guy who created it.

"Merchants must be wary of their customers, hassling them for more information than they would otherwise need. A certain percentage of fraud is accepted as unavoidable."

http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

WARNING: quote is out of context

Perhaps it was not intentional... you have just quoted the PROBLEM WITH CREDIT CARDS... not the problem of the Bitcoin protocol.

Please check your sources better the next time.

If it was a simple mistake, I want to thank you and show that I realy appreciate your taking the time to reply.

Thanks! :)

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

granted

no it wasn't intentional. I did skim over it and focus on that one sentence.

however, I am still not convinced that bitcoin can compete with PMs.
It is not and never will be a hard currency.

It has some functions in modern commerce, I see it as a competing currency which is a good thing. The fact that it is raising eyebrows with the central bankers is also a very good thing and I applaud the creator and the users for this. More power to you, but do keep it in context.

WARNING: I read some more

"What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust,allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party. Transactions that are computationally impractical to reverse would protect sellers from fraud, and routine escrow mechanisms could easily be implemented to protect buyers. In this paper, we propose a solution to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer distributed timestamp server to generate computational proof of the chronological order of transactions. The system is secure as long as honest nodes collectively control more CPU power than any cooperating group of attacker nodes."

look at that last sentence...and it's not talking about credit cards
"The system is secure as long as honest nodes collectively control more CPU power than any cooperating group of attacker nodes"

and an additional point is this, so I would have to become a cryptographer in order to verify the proof that the bitcoin is legit?
or do I just trust who is telling me? like you for example.

Great job taking that quote

Great job taking that quote out of context, and using it to condem bitcoin. That quote is actually referring to how credit card & paypal commerce is done, and how vendors that use these systems must increase their prices to compensate for the common level of backcharge fraud that these methods suffer from online.

You are misinformed..

Bitcoin only falls short on #1 and even that will soon change with more and more users and merchants.

Bitcoins are virtually impossible to counterfeit, certainly orders of magnitude harder than gold.

the dollar is the world reserve currency right?

and for how many decades has that been?

I was in a remote Honduran village in 1994, I stopped at a house next to a dirt road to buy some cigars. The whole family was out on the porch rolling them with their feet. I tried paying in USD...they didn't even know what they were. They had no idea what a dollar was.

Cool story bro, so did they

Cool story bro, so did they know what a gold coin looked like?

No, I had to use Limpiras

the local currency, but you make my point for me. If I would have pulled out a gold coin real or not, I am quite sure that would have recognized it.

I just think that you bitcoin folk are a little over-exuberant about this new form of currency.

By what leap of logic do you

By what leap of logic do you assume that they would have recognized a gold or silver coin? Most Americans have zero experience with either, and we have much more access to both. That is the problem with PM during TEOTWAWKI, it will take time before even PM are recognized for what they are. This is why barter items are better for that. Just about any event less than TEOTWAWKI, and the Internet will still exist, and so will Bitcoin.

what leap of logic?

the logic that gold has been money for thousands of years and bitcoin has been around for what a few years at most?

secondly, if the villagers were blind I could say "oro" in spanish
or whatever language was spoken in that village. the word "gold" I am sure, is in every spoken language.

if the villagers were blind and deaf, I could have put a coin in their hand...or an FRN...or a Limpira

look, I know you guys are trying to impress us all with your tech savvy and how smart you are, but you are really failing at the common sense level.

I wouldn't buy gold

off the street either. I'm in the business and I'll tell you there are a lot of good fakes out there. If you are on the street with out a scale and micrometer its hard to tell if a coin is gold or a brass knockoff.

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    A parrot doesn't learn new words...

    it only repeats words which have already been spoken.

    Ron Paul, to my knowledge... has never mentioned bitcoin.

    .

    .

    Ron Paul talks of competing currency laws

    It was introduced to him IN PUBLIC during a Congressional Hearing on Sound Money

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ChBR0mSWhI&feature=youtu.be&...

    Please take the time to listen, this was the first time this happened to my knowledge. There were more such instances, but I can't find all the links now.

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    Is bitcoin backed by a tangible good such as silver or gold?

    Or is it fiat?

    Not corporeal like gold and silver, but TANGIBLE and...

    ..it is 100% backed by the full faith and credit... oops, strike that... by the full Bitcoin community who thinks it has value, simply because it is what it is:

    An honest, transparent, record of transactions, to which many are subscribing some value. At this posting it is $12.51 for each "whole" unit.

    The interesting thing is that each "whole" unit is fungible even in tiny "grains" of 0.00000001 individual units.

    (this may be even smaller in the future!) :)

    So at the moment:

    $1 = 0.07993605 BTC (for example)

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

    Is gold backed by a tangbible good like or oil or wheat?

    or is it fiat?

    Real money is a commodity.

    That's like asking if wheat is backed up by a tangible good like oil? They both require human labor to produce.

    Bit(ch) coin is as fiat as money comes.

    what does labor have to do with it?

    Unless you're a communist the labor value of money simply doesn't make any sense. It's whether or not the MARKET finds it valuable, and at 12.575 BTC to the USD I think the market does.

    That being said I'm a bit skittish to spend money on bitcoins and I don't feel like overheating my video card to mine them. But that's simply because I'm afraid of #1 changing. What if a better digital currency appears and is favored over bitcoin? etc...

    It's ok, you are just misinformed..

    Bitcoins also require (obligatory!) labor to issue. Perhaps this is hard to believe but it is really how it is designed and why so many of us Austrian economist anarcho-capitalist/libertarians and gold bugs(85% of my savings is in gold), who have the needed technological know-how to be able to understand exactly how it works, trust it.

    Do you think I'm stupid? I spent 2 weeks non stop examining it, reading their forum, asking the devs questions before I decided to trust this technology.

    But it's ok, you don't have to use, you don't need to change, you can go extinct. Just please, stop spreading misinformation about something you lack the necessary knowledge to properly understand. Thanks!

    Sorry, you are wrong!

    Please see what "fiat" means

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

    Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]