10 votes

"BITCOIN" posts get no traction here... WHY?

I just noticed something... I posted a bunch of really informative and useful links and stories here, and they are all being VOTED DOWN!

It just seems unnecessary, I mean, it is only information, and in my view it is EXACTLY fitting to the liberty message, and in line with Ron Paul's competing currency ideas.

So who is doing all the down voting of bitcoin related articles??

Any ideas?

-- maybe I don't quite see how this site works --

Dear Michael (Nystrom), it sure would be nice if we could see all the voting activity, not only the final vote count. It would make it more interesting to sort posts according to "activity"

here are my recent posts:

Expatriating from the United States? Consider this!

Wikipedia Accepts 'Enemies Of The Internet' Currencies

Why Bitcoin Acceptance Should Be A Litmus Test Of Liberty Proponents

The future of Bitcoin: new applications and rebuilding the banking system

Why do I bother trying to EDUCATE here about BITCOIN?

Gold vs Bitcoin

Here are other people's (GREAT) posts about Bitcoin:

Allten's Bitcoin Thread

Bitcoin Report Vol 26 with BrotherJohnF VIDEO

Adam Kokesh: What is Bitcoin and Why is it Important

Gold, Silver and Bitcoin: The ultimate interview by VisionVictory



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Ron Paul talks of competing currency laws

It was introduced to him IN PUBLIC during a Congressional Hearing on Sound Money

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ChBR0mSWhI&feature=youtu.be&...

Please take the time to listen, this was the first time this happened to my knowledge. There were more such instances, but I can't find all the links now.

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

Is bitcoin backed by a tangible good such as silver or gold?

Or is it fiat?

Not corporeal like gold and silver, but TANGIBLE and...

..it is 100% backed by the full faith and credit... oops, strike that... by the full Bitcoin community who thinks it has value, simply because it is what it is:

An honest, transparent, record of transactions, to which many are subscribing some value. At this posting it is $12.51 for each "whole" unit.

The interesting thing is that each "whole" unit is fungible even in tiny "grains" of 0.00000001 individual units.

(this may be even smaller in the future!) :)

So at the moment:

$1 = 0.07993605 BTC (for example)

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

Is gold backed by a tangbible good like or oil or wheat?

or is it fiat?

Real money is a commodity.

That's like asking if wheat is backed up by a tangible good like oil? They both require human labor to produce.

Bit(ch) coin is as fiat as money comes.

what does labor have to do with it?

Unless you're a communist the labor value of money simply doesn't make any sense. It's whether or not the MARKET finds it valuable, and at 12.575 BTC to the USD I think the market does.

That being said I'm a bit skittish to spend money on bitcoins and I don't feel like overheating my video card to mine them. But that's simply because I'm afraid of #1 changing. What if a better digital currency appears and is favored over bitcoin? etc...

It's ok, you are just misinformed..

Bitcoins also require (obligatory!) labor to issue. Perhaps this is hard to believe but it is really how it is designed and why so many of us Austrian economist anarcho-capitalist/libertarians and gold bugs(85% of my savings is in gold), who have the needed technological know-how to be able to understand exactly how it works, trust it.

Do you think I'm stupid? I spent 2 weeks non stop examining it, reading their forum, asking the devs questions before I decided to trust this technology.

But it's ok, you don't have to use, you don't need to change, you can go extinct. Just please, stop spreading misinformation about something you lack the necessary knowledge to properly understand. Thanks!

Sorry, you are wrong!

Please see what "fiat" means

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

It still is much to easy to bring bitcoin down

All a government has to do is close down some exchanges and bye bye bitcoin. The few exchanges available is the weakest point.
If a merchant can not directly exchange it for Euros or dollars he would be unable to fulfill his orders and can not even buy items anymore.
It would just take a day or so to do that.

It was nice that Wordpress accepts bitcoin, but do you really believe they keep those bitcoins? They are immediately exchanged for US$.
Bitcoin will start to work when merchants are able to pay their employees and buy the goods they sell in bitcoins. I think in the most positive scenario it would take at least another 10 years before that happens.

Another is the 51% 'attack'. Enough computer power and money (both very easy to get and costs are only a few million) and the whole chain can be broken.

Another is that a few 'hedge funds' can corner the whole bitcoin market in a few days. They did it to the Thai baht, worked very well for them and they took down a bunch of countries in south east asia.

When bitcoin will become bigger and start to get relevant, that is the moment for the kill. And it will be so swift that people who have money in their bitcoin wallet will find out that they only have a file on their system that is worth as much money as one of their text files. Exactly zero!

It is like (like! not is!) a ponzi, the first that get in make the most. The rest .... end with nothing and no counterparty to sue and try to get your money back on top of that.

P2P exchanges

There already is a few P2P exchange systems in the pipeline to solve that problem.

Here is one that is 100% decentralized

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Dark_Exchange

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

Commodity IPO

I like to think of Bitcoin (as far as an investment) as a commodity IPO. It is not yet ready for prime time but when it is, it will take off quickly. I recommend people put their long term money into gold and silver and try to transition a bit to Bitcoin and learn how to use it for spending.

There are hundreds of very smart people working on some very advanced technology revolving around Bitcoin. It is like a tech company that is pouring millions into many a product with many features being built around that product. And they have little competition in the world of an electronic currency.

I believe the biggest boost to the Bitcoin technology will be a debit card that you can supply with Bitcoins and pay at any store that accepts MasterCard in your local currency. This means that you can convert your paycheck each pay day into Bitcoins and have no need to have a bank account while still having the convenience of spending your money anywhere.

This is the solution that will END THE FED. A technology that can do what millions of protesters and liberty activists could not do.

Amazon

When Amazon begins to accept Bitcoin, You gunna see it skyrocket like crazy! but this can only happen if and only if the circulation of Bitcoin reaches a pretty impressive height. I love to think that if we are so inclined to have competing currencies then why wait till legislation? would the founding fathers have waited till British Parliament allowed them to establish their own currency?

if history shows anything, Government is not going to give you permission. take action against The Fed and take action NOW!

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

Amazon doesn't need to start accepting it..

Why? Because you can already buy all the books there for bitcoins, and you can buy all the computer hardware sold there for bitcoins:

Here:
http://www.bitcoinin.com/

and here:
http://www.bitcoinstore.com/

Agreed

I too had difficulty when I first learned of Bitcoin. I tried to start a mining program on my laptop and it broke. So I moved on.

That was when 1 Bitcoin was worth 20 cents and mining Bitcoin could be done on a laptop. Now 1 Bitcoin is worth over $12 and rising.

It is not a matter of understanding, it is a matter of what you lose by not educating yourself.

My hang up

Is that Bit coin is not very easy to understand. I have made it as far as getting my own bitcoin wallet but I have not taken it any further. Just setting up the wallet has been a hassle. But I have not given up yet. I try to read more and research more every day. So keep up the posts on Bitcoins

BitcoinSpinner on android is

BitcoinSpinner on android is simple and easy to use, and is fairly secure. The hard part about bitcoins is aquiring them, not spending them.

Not too hard to acquire...

I think it is much easier than acquiring gold... wouldn't you agree?

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

Compared to gold, yes

Compared to gold, yes bitcoins are easy enough to get ahold of. Compared to paypal or credit cards using FRNs, not so easy. I have no doubt the situation will improve as the market penatration improves, but the lack of local traders still inhibits the usibility of bitcoins. The same could be said for just about any other form of 'foreign' currency, though. Bitcoins are probably easier for an American to aquire than Euros, and with a lower margin.

Nothing worth doing is easy, either.

Yes

that is a valid concern. Bitcoin is still in a VERY early stage even though it's now 4 years old. Right now mostly only (technology) geeks are into it deeply.

However, things with technology get more user friendly given time. I expect Bitcoin to be as easy to use as credit cards and PayPal in the future eventually :)

Its false to assume...

bitcoin must be understood to be used.

Fully understanding Bitcoin requires an advanced degree in mathematics.

Most people dont know how electrons firing along wires create 1's and 0's which make computers work and yet we are happy to use it.

Automatic transmission, internal combustion engines, airplanes, computers, fiat currencies, and cell phones are used every day, by billions who have no idea how they work.

As leaders of the freedom movement we should try our best to understand it, but it is not a requirement for society to understand the full mathematics of it.

www.SuccessCouncil.com
Protect your assets and profit from the greatest wealth transfer in history.

I think you are right

But in the case of Bitcoin, it is such a change in paradigm, that it is like going from riding horses, to driving cars.

You don't have to understand how a car (Bitcoin) works, but you still need to learn to drive, right?

I am not advocating that we all learn to understand the internal workings of it, but at least we should know that there are:

- four wheels (blockchain)
- a lock and keys to open it (your own client to send/receive)
- an engine that runs it (a P2P network of people who make it all work)
- lights to use at night (totally decentralized and works 24/7)
- break and horns to be used in an emergency (completely anonymous if you so wish)

etc... i hope you get my point(s) :)

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

I'm a Bitcoin dummy and

have just started to educate myself on the rather unusual or should I say unfamiliar transfer of funds/goods.

I do think there is a place in the market for Bitcoin and I do believe it will become more recognizable by the general public with time.

I still don't fully understand Bitcoin and have not yet participated in Bitcoin trade but I am not fearful of it.

One of the main arguments I see on this thread is "what if the power grid goes down for an extended period?"
I say.. the US dollar may help for a while, silver and gold will be traded too.. But if you want to sustain a long power outage ALL money (gold, silver etc.) will be worthless so you better have a gun, plenty of ammo and some flint. :)

Finally pissed off enough to spread the word of Dr. Paul
Here's song I wrote for a close friend and wounded Iraq war veteran:
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_8738783

How would gold and silver be

How would gold and silver be worthless due to loss of power? It held value for thousands of years without electricity... You trade it for anything else of value in supply and demand

In a total melt-down

In a total melt-down, you'll be a wealthier man with a tanker full of oil than you will a safe full of gold.

They don't call it the petro-dollar for nothing...

Oil is how this world runs.

Just my opinion...

The thousands of years you mention are predominantly pre-electricity. All I'm saying is todays society is so dependant on technology and electricity the affect of loosing it would impact society far more than it would have even 100 years ago. Let's face it, the so called civilized nations would find it difficult to sleep in tent or eat a fish they had to catch themselves. Again, just my opinion, but I think the whole power grid argument against bitcoin is driven by fear of the unknown and lack of education, not weather or not the power grid will fail.

Finally pissed off enough to spread the word of Dr. Paul
Here's song I wrote for a close friend and wounded Iraq war veteran:
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_8738783

Even during a long term

Even during a long term grid-down scenario, gold will do you far less good than a case or two of 22lr or 9mm ammo. The problem with a sudden return to a PM monetary system is that most people have no practical experience with either silver or gold, and wouldn't know how to assay either without a trip to Wikipedia. Silver has uses besides monetary ones, so I do own some silver; but I own much more value in ammunition, guns and bitcoins. The survialist gold-bug theory is bunk, because it's too easy to produce credible fakes today while the grid is still up that could be used to defraud those with no present experience with what a real coin should look like or how much it weighs.

Bitcoin, however, is assayed by math, and I trust math more than I trust my own ability to discern the fractional weight difference between a real gold coin and a tugsten coin plated in gold.

To paraphrase Rothbard

I also dismissed Bitcoin when it first came out, but I spend some effort learning about it and now I use it regularly.
At this point I only bother explaining it to people who show a genuine interest in actually learning about it.
Alos, and I like to focus on its REAL weaknesses. I'm a proponent and I see real weaknesses that are almost NEVER discussed by its opponents -- which I find very odd because many of the opponents are Austrians who are quite capable of learning Keynes's General Theory in order to oppose it, but won't even do simple Google searches to discover the basic misunderstandings they have on Bitcoins.

In my opinion, even if Bitcoin were to fail somehow, I believe the MOST IMPORTANT INNOVATION provided by Bitcoin is the concept of the Blockchain -- it basically allows having one "centralized" repository of information but it's stored and managed in a distributed (not centralized) fashion. This is important because many things can use this technology, not just Bitcoin, and it becomes extremely expensive for government to attack it.

To paraphrase Rothbard:
It is no crime to be ignorant of bicoin, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a complicated science. But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on crypto-currencies while remaining in this state of ignorance.

I don't think "fiat" means what you think it means...

Fiat means "by decree". Government currencies are arbitrary, because they are imposed at the barrel of a gun. The chosen value is arbitrarily selected, and the only marker one has is the previous use within the context of a voluntary market. I.e. the "dollar" is actually based on the "taler", which was a specific weight of silver. When the dollar was introduced, it just re-named what was already most commonly in use. If I decided to invent "JohnBucks" tomorrow and pass laws telling everyone they could use JohnBucks and only JohnBucks, the market would go into chaos because every price signal would be arbitrary.

Bitcoins are not "fiat". Nobody has decreed that they are to have any value at all - people just adopted them and started using them to pseudo-anonymously purchase goods and services, and the value reflects the sentiment towards them and the stuff that you can buy with them. It's still a completely voluntary interaction (nobody is forced to use them at all), therefore it is completely moral.

I think the real question to ask is: Would bitcoins even exist if governments did not monopolize currency and the existing financial infrastructure? The answer is most likely no. This is just the market responding to financial tyranny with a very solid workaround, but I highly doubt that they would exist if it were not for the monetary tyranny we are all living under already. In the meantime, you can't rage on them any more than you can rag on gold and silver, because nothing has any "intrinsic value", since all value is subjective. Gold and silver are just most commonly chosen by the market because of their innate attributes (impossible to counterfeit, ease of transport/divisibility, etc.). bitcoin actually shares all of these attributes, albeit within a digital-only realm, so you if you are going to root and holler for people being allowed to use gold and silver, you really should be rooting and hollering for people to use bitocins, too.

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Progress is precisely that which the rules and regulations did not foresee. - Ludwig Von Mises.

Are gold and silver coins issued by the U.S. mint "fiat" money?

It's the legal tender laws that use force to require acceptance of FRNs in repayment of debts. Some historical background on legal tender, the "gold clause", and fiat money is available here: http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj32n2/v32n2-10.pdf

Ron Paul's competition in currency bill would repeal the legal tender laws and allow creditors and debtors to set the terms for repayment, whether in FRNs, PM coins, bit coins, pigs, goats, or chickens.