8 votes

"BITCOIN" posts get no traction here... WHY?

I just noticed something... I posted a bunch of really informative and useful links and stories here, and they are all being VOTED DOWN!

It just seems unnecessary, I mean, it is only information, and in my view it is EXACTLY fitting to the liberty message, and in line with Ron Paul's competing currency ideas.

So who is doing all the down voting of bitcoin related articles??

Any ideas?

-- maybe I don't quite see how this site works --

Dear Michael (Nystrom), it sure would be nice if we could see all the voting activity, not only the final vote count. It would make it more interesting to sort posts according to "activity"

here are my recent posts:

Expatriating from the United States? Consider this!

Wikipedia Accepts 'Enemies Of The Internet' Currencies

Why Bitcoin Acceptance Should Be A Litmus Test Of Liberty Proponents

The future of Bitcoin: new applications and rebuilding the banking system

Why do I bother trying to EDUCATE here about BITCOIN?

Gold vs Bitcoin

Here are other people's (GREAT) posts about Bitcoin:

Allten's Bitcoin Thread

Bitcoin Report Vol 26 with BrotherJohnF VIDEO

Adam Kokesh: What is Bitcoin and Why is it Important

Gold, Silver and Bitcoin: The ultimate interview by VisionVictory

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Because, as the constitution says:

"No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility." --Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 10

If BitCoin was backed, 1:1, by gold and silver, that would be fine. Unfortunately, BitCoin is a digital currency whose value is not GROUNDED in precious metals, but in digital logic. Having studied a bit about computer systems, I can tell you with confidence: digital logic is an idea. Ideas can be duplicated, can be created infinitely, and can be introduced into the physical realm 'out of thin air'. It cannot exist, uniquely and finitely, in the tangible physical realm in the same sense that gold and silver are mined and refined as precious, finite metals.

And thus BitCoin is akin to fiat currency, which is backed by an idea, can never be truly unique, is infinite and is created out of thin air. Although it might be perfect as an internet-only currency.

I believe in the freedom to be what we choose to be.

No one is suggesting....

we go to government and beg like a slave, please, oh please master make Bitcoin the currency you permit me to use.

We are suggesting that when a long train of abuses and usurpation's... evince a design to reduce a people under abolute despotism through debt and a fiat currency... it is their right... it is their duty to through off such guard, and erect a new currency for their future security and prosperity.

Protect your assets and profit from the greatest wealth transfer in history.

Then you haven't studied

Then you haven't studied enough apparently. There are ways to prevent an idea of being duplicated. Yes, even digitally. BC is the prime example of this, since it has special algorithms preventing this from happening. Of course, these can be hacked, but it would take the power of a government to do it and money to build a super computer vastly more powerful than current supercomputers (more than 100 times). They would never be able to hide such an attempt and I would even welcome such an attempt, cause it would damage their own cause if they did so.

Besides, was it the characteristic of being created from thin air that allowed fiat currencies to fail? No, it was the ability to DUPLICATE the currency without limits. BC does not have this problem.

I first heard about bitcoin

I first heard about bitcoin here. The idea of a new alternative currency that is controlled by the people interested me. How people on this forum could turn their backs on this is beyond me. This could be part of the answer! Even if Bitcoin fails, at least people are thinking about new ways of releasing us from slavery. Any currency only has value, if we give it value, including silver and gold. No one is saying sell all your precious metals and buy bitcoins. I have a good stack of silver myself, but I am doing whatever I can to promote Bitcoin. I started mining coins a week or so ago and today I found Block 210000! That wont mean anything to those of you that dont follow bitcoins, but I was pretty excited.



No one is saying you should sell your gold and silver and hold only Bitcoin, I DON'T EITHER. Hell even the lead developer will tell you Bitcoin is an experiment and to not put any more money into it than you're willing to lose.

But at least be rational about it, allow those of us who have the technological know-how to teach you why even though we are smart libertarians-anarchocapitalist Austrian economists owning gold and silver, why we still trust it and use it.

And then, just give it a chance.. Need to buy a book online, don't use your credit card, buy some bitcoins and spend them here: http://www.bitcoinin.com/ Need to buy a new computer, or computer hardware, don't use your credit card, buy bitcoins and spend them here: http://www.bitcoinstore.com/ Need to buy some precious metals, buy some bitcoins and spend them here: http://www.coinabul.com/ Need to send your friend some money, don't use paypal, buy some bitcoins and send those! Start taking advantage of the inherent user defined privacy that Bitcoin offers when paying for event tickets - libertopia sold tickets for bitcoins.. and stop supporting the tumor that is the central banking system.

You don't need to own a significant amount of bitcoins for doing all of this, you don't need to even own any, an account on an exchange and some money in it is enough to allow you to quickly buy some when you need to make a payment.

But please, stop with the almost cultish attacks against something that you simply must admit at least has the potential to do a lot of good for you. Give it a try, then make up your mind.

Because it's just another fiat currency with a fancy


Even worse than other fiat currencies, it is ENTIRELY FICTIONAL.

There is nothing REAL about it.

And thus, people don't trust it, or want it.

If it was so awesome, it would have taken over the entire world by now.

Sorry, Gold and Silver aren't going anywhere. Bitcoin is just another blip on the radar of the fiat currency wars.

"fiat currency".... i don't

"fiat currency".... i don't think it means what you think it means.

"fiat" means "let it be done" or "by decree." That decree can

be made by anyone, not necessarily government. It is thus the character of being something because someone declared it so, not because of its nature.

Gold and Silver are money because of their physical nature.

BitCoins and FRNs are because someone said so.

Just another fiat currency?!

This is a typical mistake from someone who lacks the technological knowledge to be able to completely understand that Bitcoin is anything but "just another" anything!

Bitcoin is first of it's kind. There never was such a thing as Bitcoin in the entire human history, and I can understand if you think this is silly but you also have to admit you aren't an expert in this area, you don't understand it's code, how it functions, why it works so good and why I, a gold bug and Austrian economist trust it with about 10% of my savings..

Maybe you can learn enough watching these videos to gain at least a little bit of the needed understanding: http://www.youtube.com/user/bitcoincurve

Lipstick on a pig.

Even worse than FRNs.

At least FRNs can be used for kindling or rags, and even TP in a pinch.

BitCoins are entirely fictitious.

BitCoins are an attempt to facilitate transactions without money. Thus their use will be very limited to only special cases and few people. It's certainly a good mental exercise to attempt to solve the Coincidence of Wants problem with barter, but it isn't practical because it doesn't really facilitate a transaction due to the fact that it doesn't allow for a situation where both parties in an exchange will think they will benefit.

You can manage to make some fake transactions for a time with an imaginary currency or transaction accounting system. But you can't maintain it forever, or on a large scale.

In the real world. BitCoin fails, precisely because it isn't real.

The real reason that Bitcoin isn't popular here....

...is that the DailyPaul is a website about Ron Paul & liberty. I'm a major contributer to the bitcointalk forums, but this really isn't the place to be preaching the bitcoin gospel.

I disagree

People preach and discuss gold and silver here all the time. That's because these have always been recognized as a friend to liberty, as they are not controlled, can't be counterfeited, provide some level of anonymous use, and compete against fiat currencies.

The exact same can be said of Bitcoin. To understand it is to understand it actually threatens monopoly fiat currencies more than precious metals, which can be confiscated/effectively banned from use, can.

The real reason it's downvoted is people don't understand it. If they simply didn't want to buy it, that would be one thing, but people are aggressively against it. Why could that be? I believe it's plain and simply lack of understanding, which hopefully will change with time.

Actually, gold can now be

Actually, gold can now be counterfitted, to an extent. I have silver coins & bitcoins myself. When I started buying bitcoins, their trade value was so low that I bought an amount that would have bought me four or five silver ounces at the time. That same number of bitcoins would now buy me well over 200 ounces of silver.

Silver & gold have a long history. Bitcoin does not. Give it time, brother. Bitcoin doesn't really need your help. Word will spread as it needs to. Don't let the opinions of detractors stress you out.

Yeah, I know what you mean...

I am in a slightly different boat than most... I learned about Bitcoin right here on the DailPaul... I feel a little endebted to the folks here.

I am SO GRATEFUL! I am not so much preaching, I just want to let people know what I know, and then they can make a decision about the information they find. Just as I did!


Would you still call this, "preaching" ?

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

"...in line with Ron Paul's

"...in line with Ron Paul's competing currency ideas."

You are exactly right, but Ron Paul never said that any particular competing currency would succeed. In fact that is the point of competing currencies, the good ones succeed, the bad ones disappear in time. You might want to consider this success/failure idea before putting all those FRN's into Bitcoin, it just might be that earlier is more popular than the later. Likely someone who does not want FRN's would prefer something tangible to something virtual.

"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

didn't Bitcoin get hacked

didn't Bitcoin get hacked recently for like $250K?

There's your answer.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

If you're asking, then it's

If you're asking, then it's not an argument. No, bitcoin was never hacked; and cannot be in any practical sense. It's a triple-accounting LETS as applied to the whole Internet. It's possible, although remote, that it could be damaged with a brute force attack; but then only temporarily and it would still require at least a sustained 300+ PetaFLOPS of coordinated computing power. The top 10 (not-classified) supercomputers on Earth couldn't come close to doing this if they all worked together.


A website bitfloor.com having a brainfart when it came to their security was.

Bitcoin the protocol has never been hacked and today it's virtually impossible to be hacked. What does happen is users who don't properly secure their private keys get hacked, but that's the same as someone leaving their safe unlocked and open and having their money stolen - the safe didn't fail, they did.

sorry I was so far off, a

sorry I was so far off, a bitcoin exchange....excuse me.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

What do you do if you do not

What do you do if you do not have internet access or electricity? What would a business owner store it in, Excel Spreadsheet? If you erase the system record of a transaction that BitCoin money is gone into thin air.
Yeah it is a competing currency but it is also not tangible or something that can be held and stored. I guess the bright side is no one can hold you up in an alley and steal it from you...

But I guess I'm just stuck in cognitive dissonance and ignorance like those people on the forum say.

Southern Agrarian

Yes, you are!

Read your other replies... sorry, I have nothing much to say, except that you are funny... the same way that people making fun of Dr. Paul are "funny".

haha... sorry if my laughter is subdued.

Oh the misrepresentation was THE BEST! ha.ha.

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

If your planning for

If your planning for TEOTWAWKI, bitcoin isn't your solution. But if you're just talking about a power outage or a trek in the outback, solutions do exist and more are being developed. Here's one that works with others like itself, even if the rest of the network is unreachable...

It may yet prove to be vaporware, but it's also proof that the problem is being worked on. And yes, the devices do exist, they are just not in mass production.

You are misinformed

If you erase the system record of a transaction that BitCoin money is gone into thin air.

That is false.

The blockchain i.e. the record of all transactions is stored on all full client nodes in the networks, if you personally lose it, you can just download it from the network again. (it works like bittorrent)

The only thing you need to keep safe are the private keys that give you the exclusive access over your bitcoins which you can easily do with an email account, thumb drive, CD, DVD even your freaking brain(seriously: http://brainwallet.org/).

And since in this day and we have smart phones and bitcoin clients for them, you don't need your computer to use Bitcoin.

And if everything goes to shit where you don't have any electricity, no cell connection, no internet, I think you'd have bigger problems to worry about than being able to use Bitcoin.

A small outage on the other hand even without a smartphone is no problem, it's just like credit cards, as soon as the grid is up again, you can use Bitcoin as if nothing happened.

My first big problem would be

figuring out what I am going to trade for food since I got bitocoin instead of silvercoin.

"And if everything goes to shit where you don't have any electricity, no cell connection, no internet, I think you'd have bigger problems to worry about than being able to use Bitcoin."

I've been round and round with guys on Bitcoin. You guys think as long as there is internet then bitcoin is good. I contend that when the government takes control of the net completely, and it will country by country as is already occuring, they can block bitcoin transactions too. You may not like it and want to say they can't, but you're wrong.

That alone is enough for me to stand aside from it though there are other reasons it doesn't work for me. I farmed for a little bit and have a wallet too.

I don't think it's bad, good luck with it, but for me and many many many others it's not the alternative we are looking for.

Grand Opening! www.AmmoPit.com Ammunition by and for Liberty Lovers

I don't know why you assume

I don't know why you assume that bitcoin connections can be blocked. Mine can't. My client isn't even visable on the open Internet, as it resides entirely on Tor. What you seem to believe would happen is far easier said than done, the genie is already out of the bottle.

That's is quite the naive view

but I am worn out with arguing with you guys over it. You go ahead and bitcoin away, I will seek other investments as I'm quite satisfied with my perception as being truth.

Grand Opening! www.AmmoPit.com Ammunition by and for Liberty Lovers

You are again misinformed

Bitcoin is global, for what you say to be a threat would mean that all governments all over the world have started to control the web. Plus it's peer to peer, nothing control of the web could ever do against, hence why they're loosing the copyright fight against bittorrent.

I think you're problem is simply lack of knowledge about the technology. It's ok, I understand and maybe it's better for you to stay away from Bitcoin. You can join us users when enough time passes that it'll become clear even to you it's a good and safe move. That's what the free market in currencies is suppose to look like. And if you'll never do it, that's ok too. Use is voluntary.

No I'm not

I am quite steeped in IT and how the interwebs function. No need to argue for me, you're wrong. period.

Grand Opening! www.AmmoPit.com Ammunition by and for Liberty Lovers

If I can't hold it, I don't

If I can't hold it, I don't want it.

Every fiat currency that I

Every fiat currency that I can think of is already 95% digital, particularly the US FRN. Those bills that you still use, because they have pracical exchange value even though you know they don't have intrinsic value, are just physical symbols of that digital FRN.