46 votes

Mainstream News: "How Safe Is Fluoride In Our Water?"

Original Link:
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/abc11_investi...

My Blog:
http://golden-rule.org/2012/11/16/how-safe-is-fluoride/

DURHAM, N.C. (WTVD) — Corey Sturmer didn’t know much about fluoride in his drinking water until a year ago, when his dentist told him he has fluorisis, a condition that causes white spotting, yellowing, browning of the teeth, and erosion of the enamel.

“I asked my dentist … is there fluoride in the drinking water? And he said, yeah … it’s good for your teeth. So then I began to wonder, if it’s so good for your teeth, why am I, at 25 years old, having all these issues with my teeth?” Sturmer said.

Sturmer was a college athlete. He eats healthy food and exercises. He started doing research and found evidence that convinced him fluoride might not be as safe as he was led to believe. He came across an I-Team story ABC11 did five years ago in which a Durham dentist told us he believed we’re getting too much Fluoride.

“Fluoride in the water is essentially a drug. It’s an uncontrolled use of a drug,” offered dentist Michael Fleming.

Sturmer said what he learned made him take action.

“That motivated me to reach to you and to continue spreading the word and building up the website and talking to people,” said Sturmer.

Continue Reading here:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/abc11_investi...

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You make some interesting points

... however, nothing has or will ever convince me that poisoning the water supply with a toxic industrial chemical, without the consent of the public, is either morally or scientifically OK in any way shape or form.

100% agree with you. I have said this in other comments.

The ethical case is FAR stronger than the scientific case. The government has no right to mass medicate the population without their consent. END OF F-ING DEBATE.

But I have trouble with some of the claims made by the Infowars crowd. The scientific evidence is not there to demonize the responsible, topical use of fluoride in toothpase. There is overwhelming evidence that demonstrates that it hardens enamel and protects the teeth against caries in proper doses. I have seen no convincing evidence to date that demonstrates that the benefits do not outweight the risk when used topically in small doses (which is why I personally use fluoridated toothpaste).

I am very uncomfortable with some of the scare tactics I see being used. I think it hurts the crediblity of anti-water fluoridation movement. I'm being as honest as I can with people. From my dual perspective as both a student of medicine and a staunch anarcho-capitalist, some of the medical claims made about fluoride are so ridiculous that people just laugh. It's sad because there is often a hint of truth to it (like the rat poison thing).

I've had a bunch of people, supposedly awakened libertarians, insult me by saying "keep drinking the fluoride, man" and implying that it is destroying my brain. I used to think that it was a symbolic metaphor, but I have now realized that many people think this is literally true- that the government is brainwashing the public with fluoride. This is the stupid shit I'm trying to argue against.

Respectfully Disagree

I respect your right to argue the semantics of our argument, as well as your right to ignore the warnings of the so-called Infowars crowd but you can't claim in good conscience that our side is lacking in facts. Concerns about brainwashing are not ill-founded.

As a student of medicine it might do you well to spend just an hour reading the science produced by the medical community ON fluoride ingestion if for no other reason to be aware.

I understand it may not result in action - I know we all have priorities...But not taking action and claiming we don't have the facts are two very different things.

If you want to talk facts - the fact is that Fluoride is just a term for a concoction of chemicals that vary from city-to-city. More simply it is the resulting compound from fertilizer manufacturing dubiously sold to municipal governments under the guise of dental health benefits. This is a FACT and I welcome someone to try and refute it! It is a way for phosphate manufacturers to dispose of their waste without having to pay the money required to do it without polluting the environment. Ironically, their solution was to sell it to the unsuspecting public.

Brainwashing is a loaded term in many ways but if you examine the facts it does seem that Fluoride has a detrimental effect on the brain/ IQ - what else is one supposed to think?

The studies are all supplied in the report/video, if one spends the time reading them.

☠ flu·o·ride noun : a compound of fluorine ☠

flu·o·ride noun (Merriam Webster's medical dictionary)
1
: a compound of fluorine with a more electropositive element or radical
2
: the monovalent anion of fluorine
______________________________________________________________________

How toxic is "just" fluoride compared to lead or arsenic?
Please read these two charts on toxicology. Note:

  • Scale on right is very toxic to extremely toxic.
  • Scale on the left is "parts per billion (ppb).

"It is not what you don't know that will hurt you. It is what you know for certain, that just ain't so. - Mark Twain

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Fluoride has been used as an Insecticide for many years...It has

been used as Rat Poison, disregard at your peril!

From the "Introduction" to Chapter 7, "Fluorine-containing insecticides", by R. L. Metcalf (Handb. exp. Pharmacol. XX.1, pp. 355-386, Springer, Berlin-Heidelberg-New York, 1966):
"Fluorine has played a significant role in insect control since about 1896 when sodium fluoride and various iron fluorides were patented in England as insecticides. Sodium fluoride was used in the United States for cockroach control before 1900 and was introduced in 1915 for the control of poultry lice. However, the use of fluorine insecticides did not become general until the 1930´s when the disadvantages of arsenical residues on food crops became apparent and the inorganic fluorine compounds were introduced as safer substitutes.

This same sodium fluoride, which we now drink in the name of fighting tooth decay, has been used as rat poison for nearly 40 years.
"Sodium Fluoride water solutions are the cheapest and most effective rat killers known to chemists: colourless, odourless, tasteless, no remedy, no hope: Instant extermination of rats."....Dr. E.H. Bronner, Mfg.Research Chemist, Los Angeles.) Nephew of Albert Einstein!

Far from preserving or promoting 'dental health', fluoridated water destroys teeth, both in children and adults, the destructive mottling and pitting are the first signs of the condition, until complete break down takes place.

Sodium Fluoride cannot be assimilated by the body. It becomes instant poison, because it cannot be eliminated without much extra effort from the kidneys. This means that there is always a build-up in the system. Allegedly kidney patients have died in the same way as rats, because they need to drink a great deal of water to flush out the toxins, a job that their malfunctioning kidneys find impossible.

Doctor Exposes Fluoride as Poison -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvAAaAAHNvo

Fluorine containing is not the same thing as fluoride salt

Very different chemcial properties. But I stand corrected, though. 100 years ago it seems NaF was used as an insecticide.

You are preaching to the choir though. I am in dental school and I strongly and vocally oppose water fluoridation.

My original point is that it is going to tough winning hearts and minds making claims like "fluoride is in rat poison." Warfarin is the most common rat poison and it is one of the most important medicines ever discovered. Every chemical, in a high enough dose, is a poison. Water can kill you in a high enough dose.

I just think people are going about this anti-water fluoridation in the worst way. The ethical case is FAR strogner than the scientific case.

The government has NO RIGHT TO MASS MEDICATE THE POPULATION. End of debate. Forget this rat poison crap. To me it's a crappy argument.

I'm just curious...

What do they teach you in dental school regarding where this sodium fluoride comes from?

This is a loaded question.

First off, chemically speaking, it does not matter where a chemical comes from. If you distill water from sewage or sea water and get a high purity, the end product is still water. A chemical is a chemical. It has no bias and no "memory" of it's original source. This is a common misunderstanding people have regarding chemistry.

But to answer your question- no, they don't say the NaF or the NaSiF6 the government uses in the water supply comes from fertilizer plants. However, they rarely push any propaganda on us. Out of 2500 hours or so of dentistry lectures, 1-2 hours involved epidemiology pro-government crap. Last year I got into a heated debate with a guest public health official who came in to lecture the class about why water fluoridation is necessary in front of about 100 dental students and several professors. She was not prepared for this confrontation.

Believe it or not the vast majority of dental professors and classmates are very conservative. We spend a lot of time dealing with government regulations and it pisses off just about everyone. For some reason some dentists who are otherwise conservative/libertarian have a blind spot for the absurdity of water-fluoridation, but from my perspective they are coming around.

It really is not a big deal for most dentists. Water-fluoridation is pushed by a couple of hardcore public health liberal do-gooders. Most of us just ignore them.

fluorosis

.

You need to edit this post

http://www.dailypaul.com/guide

See #3 under Rules

Aside from that, it's great to see this in the MSM. I stand by fluoride use in my toothpaste and anti-cavity rinse and will continue to use it to keep my teeth healthy. Drinking it in my tap water is a whole other matter and should be ended immediately.

With liberty and justice for all...who can afford it.

Have you read the back of your tube of toothpaste?

"Call poison center if swallowed." Why not use battery acid? Why put any poison into your mouth? Have you really took the time to look into it? I use Tom's Toothpaste which has no fluoride...

Yes, I have

I made my choice; you make yours. I don't swallow my toothpaste or my anti-cavity rinse. I use Tom's Total Care with Fluoride and Xylitol and ACT rinse. When I tried my no fluoride experiment (using hydrogen peroxide and a few other things) my teeth suffered. I tried this for a month from 10/10/2012 to 11/10/2012 and the results were bad. Since I switched back, my teeth have felt much better. People pointing to the toxicity of fluoride neglect to mention that the ppm is very low in these products, and as long as you don't swallow, you will be fine. There are plenty of products out there, if used incorrectly have toxic effects on the body.

As for fluoridation of water, no libertarian supports that as it is forced into our water supply. That's one thing I have written my local legislature about and every else should do the same because it is utterly pointless and probably harmful based on recent studies. Fluoridated water has only been proven to reduce tooth decay in children under 5. Who cares at that point since those are baby teeth. It does not belong in our drinking water.

I find it hard to believe that I would get downvoted for exercising my personal choice, which I am at liberty to do so. I have done plenty of research, talked to some medical professionals, and reinforced something I learned a long time ago: you can't believe everything you read on the Internet or in newsletters. Nevertheless, it may turn out that it is harmful even as a toothpaste, but my own experiments and research lead me to the conclusion that the benefits outweigh any supposed risks.

With liberty and justice for all...who can afford it.

Tom's ® a Colgate ® Corporation.

Tom's ® of Maine became successful producing & selling healthy products.

Colgate ® Corporation captured (bought) them. Using Tom's good name, Colgate reformulated Tom's toothpaste. Added fluoride & sodium lauryl sulfate(SLS). This poisonousness, toxic concoction appeared in Tom's shelf space at health food store & points beyond. Read the label. Call poison control when necessary (per label).

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Mostly true

but there still are fluoride and/or SLS free varieties of Tom's.

That said, If I listened to every study that said "avoid this or you'll get Cancer and your brain will rot away!" I'd have nothing left to eat except cardboard (by which time it will, in all likelihood, also be linked to causing Cancer).

A signature used to be here!

You don't cure cancer. Oxygen & nutrition get the best of it.

"You don't know about me without you have read a book by the name of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, but that ain't no matter. That book was made by Mr. Mark Twain and he told the truth, mainly." - Huckleberry Finn, 1884

You don't know about treating cancer without you have read about relationships among cancer, oxygen, nutrition & circulation. Get the best of it. Study:

  • Cancer, the body's last attempt to save itself?
  • Oxygen, cure cancer cells?
  • B17 (apricot pits), repair cancer cells?

Depending on one's outlook. A bodies constitution. Cancer need not be cured. It might be defined & treated as stated here briefly.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Tom's is good

Been using it for the past few months. A bit on the pricey side, but it's worth it.

I'm staying out of the calcium fluoride/sodium fluoride/fluorosilicic acid debate though. ;)

A signature used to be here!