-7 votes

Why do I bother trying to EDUCATE here about BITCOIN?

Allow me to tell you my short personal story with Bitcoin. If Ron Paul supporters embraced this libertarian alternative to the Federal Reserve and International Banking Cartels the citizens of the world would be free of their enslavement to the banking system, a freedom which they surrendered many hundreds of years ago to the money changers. We could be even more at the forefront of the change that is coming! We now have a tool to use to take take back our free right to an honest monetary system. I wish to start a positive thread on Bitcoin here on the DailyPaul! :)

I really think it is all about EDUCATION! That is why I am posting so much about bitcoin here... I actually don't care so much about educating everybody all over the world, I am really not one of those "do gooders" on a personal level... it really doesn't matter to me how many people "catch on" here, but I LOVE the Daily Paul so much, I thought I would do my little bit to "educate" those who are ready for it. I learned so much from you all, I know this is information that has to be spread here.

Interestingly enough, I found out about Bitcoins RIGHT HERE, while reading comments to a post (that was back in March 2011) Bitcoins were $0.30 each, and because of complicated distractions at the time, I didn't bother to just go and INVEST in it a few hundred dollars (which I wanted to) at the time... so I ended up missing that boat completely!

I did buy 10 of 'em through www.coinPal.com (this was a service that offered easy purchase of bitcoins using paypal) by the time I got around to spending time figuring out whether it is better to mine them or if it would be better to buy them, Coinpal was shut down! (Paypal actually stopped allowing purchases of Bitcoin!) :)

Anyhow, I just hope folks here learn about it, and get onboard if they want to before it goes up to... well, who knows where it will skyrocket to...

Lemme tell you though, I am sure the "skyrocketting" has not happened, yet!

IT IS COMING SOON! :)

Please share any POSITIVE Bitcoin stories you may want to share with the DP community... this may include your vision of the BEST CASE SCENERIOS you've dreamed about or read about.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
tasmlab's picture

Just read entire FAQ and still don't get it

So I like the aspects that the scarcity is fixed, it isn't enforced through govt violence.

I get that it's value is dependent on all of the merchants and shoppers believing in it (fiat). Just like FRNs without the legal tender laws. But then I wonder if the threat of law is what makes a fiat currency even function. They seem to collapse when people lose faith in the threat of the govt, not that they lost faith in each other.

Although the FAQ brings up the Somali schilling as a proof point that people will embrace a fiat currency after the law is gone. But using Somalia as a proof point for anything economic is dicey. It's the third largest refuge pop in the world with four different thug governments, recent US bombings, and seeming economic incompetence that may rival animals.

So it's not commodity money. There's no 'last resort' type of use like gold or salt or something would have. E.g., make a necklace, season some food.

Anyways, I'm happy to keep learning but don't get it yet.

There's probably little risk in using it to transact in. Not really too much risk with any kind of currency there.

What about using it for a long term store of value? I'd be concerned. But I guess that's not a great use for money anyways.

Currently consuming: Gatto: "Underground history of education..", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football

Fiat = Gov't Decree, Bitcoin is NOT fiat... sorry :)

Coreadrin already phrased it in another post really nicely:

Fiat means "by decree". Government currencies are arbitrary, because they are imposed at the barrel of a gun. The chosen value is arbitrarily selected, and the only marker one has is the previous use within the context of a voluntary market. I.e. the "dollar" is actually based on the "taler", which was a specific weight of silver. When the dollar was introduced, it just re-named what was already most commonly in use. If I decided to invent "JohnBucks" tomorrow and pass laws telling everyone they could use JohnBucks and only JohnBucks, the market would go into chaos because every price signal would be arbitrary.

Bitcoins are not "fiat". Nobody has decreed that they are to have any value at all - people just adopted them and started using them to pseudo-anonymously purchase goods and services, and the value reflects the sentiment towards them and the stuff that you can buy with them. It's still a completely voluntary interaction (nobody is forced to use them at all), therefore it is completely moral.

I think the real question to ask is: Would bitcoins even exist if governments did not monopolize currency and the existing financial infrastructure? The answer is most likely no. This is just the market responding to financial tyranny with a very solid workaround, but I highly doubt that they would exist if it were not for the monetary tyranny we are all living under already. In the meantime, you can't rage on them any more than you can rag on gold and silver, because nothing has any "intrinsic value", since all value is subjective. Gold and silver are just most commonly chosen by the market because of their innate attributes (impossible to counterfeit, ease of transport/divisibility, etc.). bitcoin actually shares all of these attributes, albeit within a digital-only realm, so you if you are going to root and holler for people being allowed to use gold and silver, you really should be rooting and hollering for people to use bitocins, too.

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

tasmlab's picture

Semantics? Maybe

Perhaps I'm using the term 'fiat' to be more literally 'faith based', for example, a quick (non-authoritative) search on wiki gives us this definition:

The term fiat money has been defined variously as:
any money declared by a government to be legal tender.[7]
state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[8]
money without intrinsic value.[9][10]
While gold or silver-backed representative money entails the legal requirement that the bank of issue redeem it in fixed weights of gold or silver, fiat money's value is unrelated to the value of any physical quantity. Even a coin containing valuable metal may be considered fiat currency if its face value is higher than its market value as metal.

The third "money without intrinsic value" was the one I was thinking.

But let's not fuss over the term. I'm delighted that bitcoin can not be directed, manipulated etc., by government decree.

What I do wonder is that it's lack of intrinsic value makes it an accounting system for bartering vs. being like commodity money. I guess someone could contend that any money is an accounting system for bartering, but I understood a benefit of commodity currency is that it would be enormously difficult for people to both give up their usage of the money as currency AND have the money lose 100% of its value.

Or another way to think about it, do you prefer a money that requires promises and belief, or one that is just a very, very marketable desired thing?

Explaining how money works is so simple when it is explained ground-up as a commodity used for convenience ala Mises or Rothbard, but gets so complex when a system not based on stuff is architected. The first 10 pages of "What has govt done to our money" is like reading a children's book, it's so simple.

I'm not saying bitcoin is good/bad, I'm just having trouble conceptually understanding it and getting excited about it. I'll keep listening though.

Currently consuming: Gatto: "Underground history of education..", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football

You're right

you shouldn't bother.

Ammunition -- 9mm - 40s&w - 45acp - .223/5.56x45 -- www.ammopit.com
Bulk Components starting this month also with 223 bullets!

Maybe don't bother to "use" but do bother to UNDERSTAND

I think the choice to use must be made only after "understanding"

I hope TASMLAB will continue learning... it took me a long time! :)

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

Any assumption

that I may not understand is ASSuming something. Bitcoin guys only understand that they 'think' they are the pioneers of the next big thing. While totally negating how much control governments have over the internet.

If a little shitbox country like Syria can shut down the internet, then don't think for one microsecond bitcoin can't be disbanded whether it is peer to peer or sent by messages tied to pigeon legs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/29/syria-blocks-int...

Bitcoin has 'some' merit to it, but the bitcoin trolls that insist it's foolproof only prove they are the fools.

Ammunition -- 9mm - 40s&w - 45acp - .223/5.56x45 -- www.ammopit.com
Bulk Components starting this month also with 223 bullets!

I don't participate in bitcoin

because it is used mainly for illegal transactions. The 'price' of a bitcoin goes up because more and more illegal transactions are made and the demand for bitcoins is high. I don't like to change my money to enable that. It is a principle thing.
'Normal' use of bitcoin is also difficult in many countries. I don't know any retailer (Thailand, The Netherlands) that accepts them or have products i want and as such it is of no value to me.

I invested in land, 'bricks', tools and education. I am separated from the 'leeches' already.

Okay Bro

I'll put a couple hunderred in there. Relax

I think the educational and recreational experience is worth that much. And maybe I'll buy something cool!

allow myself to introduce myself...

how much does an ounce of bitcoin weigh? and how much is that worth?

oh wow that sounds great, I'll take two.

on second thought, maybe not.

Hmm. Theoretically wouldn't

Hmm. Theoretically wouldn't an ounce of bitcoin weigh an ounce.

I know I was being facetious

but it doesn't change how I feel about bitcoin. I feel the same as most here, it's electronic. It is not durable, universally recognized and ultimately can be duplicated or otherwise counterfeited, regardless of how many bit encryption it has.

It has some uses, for anonymous transactions for example. It should be viewed as just another competing currency and not a panacea.

Unless your talking about a fluid ounce, then it might weigh

more, or it might weigh less than 1/12 of a pound. )

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

I agree

as any investor will tell you, Its a bad Idea to store all your eggs in one basket. I dont see a problem with diversity really. Many folks here believe when SHTF bitcoins wont have value because of Martial Law and Internet Censorship to take place preventing any transactions from wallet to wallet. Pure Speculation? probably, which is where precious metals comes in.

still a downside to precious metals is that its physical, so if it gets taken away or stolen well then thats that, no more silver or gold.

AS far as I know Bitcoin has a huge reputation for illegal goods purchased on the cyber black market, namely silk road. This doesnt help Bitcoin's name. despite its reputation, it is hedged by the devaluation of fiat currency and being that it can be denominated to any value. dividing a silver dollar in small pieces isnt very easy. I do see it as a fair investment.

a downside to Bitcoin isnt the software that hosts the digital currency but rather the poor technology that runs the software. A personal expirence of mine was my NTFS driver in my Windows OS was missing due to dropping my laptop on the floor. Well this was no easy fix, i had to partition my hard drive all over again and install Windows from scratch. This erased my wallet (along with everything else) and Bitcoins that i had purchased. so that really sucked. Now I am well prepared and store my wallet on a external hard drive so that bullshit doesnt happen again.

If one is inclined to purchase Bitcoins, I would HIGHLY Recommend you please do the same.

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

Just one note on "Reputation"

I believe that the Freedom of Speech also has a "reputation" of allowing people to say pretty horrible things. It is still no reason to think of as "bad" just because it allows people to say awful things.

Wouldn't you agree?

I think that the fact that the Bitcoin protocol can be used in a "horrible" way is no different... the thing that gives some freedom to some "bad" people, gives a LOT of freedom to GOOD PEOPLE!

There are other good examples of this, but I think you get my point, right? :)

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

I agree

wouldn't you agree that Fiat cash is also used for "horrible things" too like purchasing illegal goods and services [drugs, prostitutes]?

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

The 'horrible' way drives up its price.

That is why it should be avoided. Unless you don't care and SUPPORT the 'horrible' way.

Not a very "Ron Paul" way of thinking

Is someone else's partaking in victimless crimes like drug-use or prostitution any of your business? How would Ron Paul answer this question?

It shocks me how many people here are STILL clueless to what a free society is...

The Electricity Question

Bitcoins are meant to be a store of value that can be transferred.

It's as simple as that. As long as the Internet is operational bitcoins can be transferred. There are also experiments for physical bitcoins both re-usable and use only once type.

Bitcoins store value in what's called a private key. As long as you keep your private key secure (for example by writing/printing it out or backing up on thumb drive) then your bitcoins are secure, even with a power outage.

Lastly, if and when Bitcoin gains widespread usage people will probably use third party eWallets (for convenience), just as people now use PayPal, online credit card purchases, ATMs, etc. All these things are virtual - based on electricity, yet people use them quite heavily.

I'll try to make it as simple as possible.

Bitcoins need electricity. I don't want to put my value into something that REQUIRES electricity.

Hope that explains it.

BTW, myself and I'm sure others have researched and EDUCATED ourselves on bitcoins before you joined this site.

No electricity needed to STORE THEM! -- like gold and silver

Just like you don't need much energy to store gold or silver, bitcoins can sit around on thumb drives and pieces of paper.

You only need to use electricity when you wish to spend/transfer them. Kinda like having to lug around the gold and silver when you are going out to give them to someone. Except that you can actually transfer their value globally, and with much less "energy" than you would need to for gold and silver.

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

So, correct me if I'm wrong here.

It sounds like you are saying that bitcoins require electricity. Is that right?

Actually..

Bitcoin could function with a pen and paper, just not very efficiently. :D

It's just math transmitted over the internet, nothing special in that regard.

What if you leave them in

What if you leave them in your pants and wash them?
:O

Southern Agrarian

Bitcoin

does not tickle my fancy mainly because it is electric money. How did bitcoin work out for the folks on the east coast a few weeks ago? Can I trade my bitcoins for a particular good or service if the power goes out in my area for an extended length of time and I need gas, food, or water? I rather have something tangible.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Hate to burst your bubble

But with the way society is brainwashed you really think people will accept silver when you are labled as a domestic terrorist for using it? Even if they take it you dont think they will rat you out? There is an expression if you see something say something AND PEOPLE DO!

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

Good question...

But also, if the "worst case scenario" came up, how would you do business using gold and silver?

I am really skeptical about going around and trading my gold and silver when there is no electricity ANYWHERE!

Actually, even with electricity on, I don't really even know how I would check if my little silver coin, or gold bar is REAL. Do you drill through each one, every time you conduct a trade just to make sure?

You are right that you need electricity to transfer/verify people's bitcoins, but I sure am thankful I can do that INSTANTLY with 100% TRUST!

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

look at videos

on utube of the people in Zimbabwe, they could only use gold or silver when they experienced hyper inflation, most had to dig it out of the earth, .8 of a gram for a loaf of bread.

Constitutional silver is easy recognizable, and for gold, people can do what they did in the old days, bite the coin...

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Yes, you can!

As long as you have a cell signal and a smartphone even a power outage wont stop you from being able to use Bitcoin.

Plus, no one is saying to own only bitcoins.. I don't either! You don't need to own any until the moment you are ready to spend some and you can still use it..

Guess what...

During that last hurricane, cell signals were not always present, either. It was hit and miss for several days. Nor can everyone can afford a smartphone, even though it is the latest in a long line of must haves that are used for tracking people.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

Well I guess

if you'll want to find a reason to not use it even for small amounts and perhaps, just perhaps support a technology that actually has a shot at changing the world, you'll find one.

Btw, you better stay indoors for the rest of your life because there's a chance something might happen to you if you go outside!

You see.. nothing is risk free in life, but sometimes somethings are worth the risk, like going outside is.