52 votes

Justin Amash: Feinstein Amendment Meaningless

As we all know, the Feinstein amendment passed. But Justin Amash says it is meaningless, on his FB page:

Post#1:

The heart of the Feinstein amendment:

"An authorization to use military force, a declaration of war, or any similar authority shall not authorize the detention without charge or trial of a citizen or lawful permanent resident of the United States apprehended in the United States, UNLESS AN ACT OF CONGRESS EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZES SUCH DETENTION."

Well, that Act of Congress is the 2012 NDAA, which renders the rest of the Feinstein amendment meaningless.

- - - - - -

Post #2:

My friends Mike Lee and Rand Paul are fighting for liberty, fighting for the Constitution, and fighting for you every day. We may disagree from time to time, but we're in this together. Debating issues like NDAA indefinite detention is what makes us better representatives of the people. It's a victory for liberty that Congress is even having a debate on such provisions.



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I don't agree

Cavemen were still walking when the wheel was being invented, and so to expect change to come without compromise is insane.

The GOP is not finished. As much as you and the leftiest NWO wish it was so.. it's not going to happen.

I'm a boomer, and I don't agree with your assement of boomers, who make up the bulk of ALL parties at this point, though the GOP is infiltraited with Democrats, there is a conservative side now, thanks to Ron Paul who is ready, willing and able to push them out.. we've seen the dirty tricks and we are not running, only prepared to fight better. Those in the RepubliCAN rEVOLution are not driven by HATE, but by the appreciate for liberty, and believe the GOP is the ticket. You of course are free to disagree and pursue your own way. Good luck with that. Happy to help.. Dan Roberts, my past congressional candiate was nominated by both my GOP and the American Indepenent Party (who nominated the same as the Constitution Party, that does not exist in CA).

As so we will attract votes from Indy's more than third parties who are filled with shills working to keep we the people marginalized.

The GOP as currently

The GOP as currently constituted IS finished. It can't produce winning candidates because it is TOO corrupt and out of touch.

Ventura 2012

if you mean

the neocons are on their last leg.. I agree.

Actually, there's no such thing as a "neocon"

anymore. Same with "RINO." No, they're ALL just plain ol' republicans. Nothing more, nothing less. REPUBLICAN. And the republicans WERE on their last leg in 2010, when they AGAIN, tricked a nation to vote for MORE LEFTIST REPUBLICANS (the "Tsunami.") Now, they're finished. The ONLY thing they can do now, is siphon off third party votes to clear the runway for the democrats - just like they did in 2012.

Brother Winston Smith

The r3VOLution is NOT republiCAN.

I accept that to YOU there is not such thing

I don't find any of my fellow committee members "plain", as they are all very busy and high profile in my community doing a lot of charitable and Church work. While we may not agree politically, I have no problem with, "sure, we're all just republicans." OK. We're all just people.

You and I don't see the situation the same and don't agree on many levels. None the less, enjoy what you do and good luck.

It could be that or it could

It could be that or it could be the party will dissolve. The neo-cons and social conservatives are not just going away, there are too many of them. If we take over the GOP then the Neo-cons will leave and join the DNC or form a third party. That's pretty much what happened with the GOP when Teddy left the party. Or we can form the third party.

Ventura 2012

Granger DISSECTED...

GIBBERISH:
"Cavemen were still walking when the wheel was being invented, and so to expect change to come without compromise is insane."
TRUTH:
Ron Paul never compromised and changed A NATION BECAUSE OF IT!

FALSE:
"The GOP is not finished."
TRUTH:
The GOP is finished. Again, the ONLY THING they will accomplish is siphoning support away from third parties, FOR THE DEMOCRATS. It's actually a stall tactic, until the population shifts enough to render them powerless. Then they can just shrug their CORRUPT shoulders and claim... "we tried." We're beginning to see this now. Rush, Hannity, Beck and friends are NOW claiming a need to FURTHER EMBRACE the left "for survival." Even though this IS NOT the case yet... THEY WANT TO CLAIM POWERLESSNESS, so they can openly embrace FULL-ON SOCIALISM. Rand Paul's Pathway Amnesty COULD SPEED UP THE PROCESS.

ALINSKYITE NAME-CALLING:
"leftiest NWO"
ALINSKYITE NAME-CALLING OBJECTIVE:
This always always strikes me as the most desperate, transparent republican technique: describing your target as the exact opposite. "The biggest lie" kinda thing, I suppose. When attacking Paulbots, it's typically "Code Pinker" or "OWS" or "Liberal plant." This tactic varies, based on the venue. On this particular site "NWO" is particularly odious, so the name-calling will reflect that.

PREDICTABLE:
"I'm a boomer"
TRUTH:
The Liberty Movement republican co-opting is a tad fresh to make any blanket statements, but the Tea Party co-opting was ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY BOOMER. Most Boomers seek status quo. They will manipulate others into being reluctantly satisfied with the leftist Establishment republican party (Romney, Rand, McCain, Boehner), by convincing them a more "pure" way is unattainable and ridiculous. When this propaganda begins to fail, they will shift into propaganda that positions their target's "purity" as a NATIONAL THREAT. As a Paulbot, I saw A LOT of this, as Tampa crept closer.

NATURALLY:
"and I don't agree with your assement of boomers"
REASON:
You're a Boomer. An alcoholic will NEVER ADMIT alcoholism, right?

FALSE:
"though the GOP is infiltraited with Democrats"
TRUTH:
The leftist republican party and leftist democrat party (same thing) ARE ALMOST ENTIRELY LEFTIST! Not "infiltrated with democrats."

FALSE:
"there is a conservative side now"
TRUTH:
The "conservative side" ARE REPUBLICANS LIKE MARCO RUBIO!!!!! How'd he vote on the Amendment? THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN!!! There are ONLY closet leftists. West, Bachmann, Rubio, Brown ARE PERFECT EXAMPLES! I was "BATDOOKEYCRAZY" for warning about these JACKHOLES in 2010, too. I was told to shut up, sit down and that "we" can "hold their feet to the fire." Howz that strategy working?

GIBBERISH:
"thanks to Ron Paul who is ready, willing and able to push them out"
GIBBERISH OBJECTIVE:
A Liberty Movement co-opter will ALWAYS EXPLOIT THE NAME RON PAUL, to FALSELY give the APPEARANCE of him suggesting "saving" the leftist GOP, WHEN INTERVIEW AFTER INTERVIEW SHOWS HIS ABSOLUTE CONTEMPT FOR THE republican party, being IDENTICAL to the democrat party.

FALSE:
"we've seen the dirty tricks and we are not running, only prepared to fight better."
TRUTH:
If efforts CONTINUE ONLY in the republican party, you are preparing to lose AGAIN, same as 2008, 2010 ("Tsunami" was a LOSS for Liberty and third parties) and 2012.

FALSE:
"Those in the RepubliCAN rEVOLution"
TRUTH:
The r3VOLutio is not republiCAN. Co-opters will use language and phrases to commandeer the Liberty Movement, same as the Tea Party. Remember "Tea Party Republicans?" Like Rubio? Oh... he turned out to be ANYTHING BUT TEA PARTY AND THE LABEL WAS A LIE ALL ALONG!!!!!!

CONFUSING:
"are not driven by HATE"
TRUTH:
I believe the tactic here is the classic leftist's "H" word. They will describe truth as "hate," in order to smother or silence it.

FALSE:
"but by the appreciate for liberty"
TRUTH:
Republicans are driven to PRESERVE the republican party. NOTHING more.
EVIDENCE:
"and believe the GOP is the ticket."

FALSE CIVILITY TACTIC:
"You of course are free to disagree and pursue your own way."
FALSE CIVILITY TACTIC OBJECTIVE:
It's a slight variation of the "Victim" tactic. The co-opter will FALSELY position themselves as open-minded, almost agreeable and welcoming of discourse (pleasant characteristics), but will do EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING TO SILENCE YOU. On sites like this, it takes the form of propaganda. On republican sites, it takes form of the "report" button pig-pile, until you are eventually booted.

GIBBERISH:
"As so we will attract votes from Indy's more than third parties"
TRUTH:
"Indy's" HATE republicans and democrats! IT'S THE REASON THEY'RE "INDY" IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!

PROPAGANDA:
"third parties who are filled with shills working to keep we the people marginalized."
PROPAGANDA OBJECTIVE:
TOLD YA! Notice how the ARTIFICIALLY FRIENDLY "You of course are free to disagree and pursue your own way"... WITHIN A FEW LINES... morphs into "shills working to keep we the people marginalized." Propaganda ALWAYS EMERGES with a co-opter. Actually, the "shills"... ARE THE REPUBLICAN CO-OPTERS! They "shilled" for the republican party to commandeer Christian conservatives in the 90's. They "shilled" for the republican party to commandeer the Tea Party (Rubio, West, Bachmann, Brown). And they're "shilling" for the republican party to commandeer the Liberty Movement.

Brother Winston Smith

The r3VOLution is NOT republiCAN.

I dissagree

"Ron Paul never compromised and changed A NATION BECAUSE OF IT!"

Ron Paul was a pig at the trough bringing the bacon home to his constituants. He was able to do many things because the GOP made the mistake of not paying attention. When he woke us up, he woke them up too and they are fighting us (you help them).

ALINSKYITE NAME-CALLING:
"leftiest NWO

Please excuse me, in reading YOUR posts, YOU rage about the leftist in the GOP, who to me have a NWO agenda, that you help. I'm not calling anyone any names, I'm trying to communicate on your level, which I admit, my experience does not match your rage.

Tea Party in my area is not boomer, but older than the boomers,, the ones who went to Nam and got the benefits about the same as WWII vets, they don't want to lose.

Alcoholism begins by making a choice to drink. Being a boomer is a lable based on when you were born, which is not a choice.

When was the last Republican Party even you attended? Honest simple answer.. no excuses.. just when was that?

Ron Paul got me into the GOP.. I introduced myself to the committee as a Ron Paul Republican over a year ago, and petitioned for my seat a a Ron Paul RepubliCAN, which I qualified, so am now seated on a committee as a Ron Paul RepublicCAN.. however, Ron Paul is now happily reetired and I'm getting tons of stuff from him about C4L.. so I am now shifting to:
STOP BIG GOVERNMENT'S TAKEOVER OF THE INTERNET

FIGHT NATIONAL SECURITY STATE POWER GRABS DESIGNED TO DESTROY AMERICAN'S CIVIL LIBERTIES

PASS THE AUDIT THE FED TO FINALLY EXPOSE THE FEDERAL RESERVE'S CORRUPTION TO POLICIES AND TURN AUDIT THE FED INTO THE LAW OF THE LAND

GETTING RAND PAUL THE GOP NOMINATION

REPLACING 66 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WITH RON PAUL REPUBICANS in 2014

I imagine we will lose many battles before we win the war of changing America from a NWO globalist statis nation to one that RESTORES THE REPUBLIC, but I feel very good about it, at least where I live.

I do not belong to a Liberty Movement.. if that's what you mean? When I established banners in 07 it was Ron Paul rEVOLution, and that is where I remain. Last event, Ron Paul had the term RepubliCAN, so I accept this.. Liberty movement.. you can have it.. GOOD LUCK with it!!! Don't worry about me.. I'm not interested.. I'm very happy in my RP rEVOLution as a RepubliCAN. Say what you will.. the fact remains, my elected seat is known in my county as held by a Ron Paul RepubliCAN.. I have nothing to do with any liberty movement.. that's all yours. ENJOY and GOD BLESS.

I may not agree with what you say or see things your way, but I will defend your right to see it and say it as you wish. I do not consider you an asset or part of the solution, but because I love life and freedom, it makes me happy to know you are safe saying anything you want around me. I care.

NWO is bent on destroying the GOP to give us a one party NWO to the UN, so I am going to fight with the GOP even though it's not a party I would have joined, had I not understood Ron Paul when he said, "If you want to keep your republic, you better get in there and fight for it, because some people want to end the Republic and the party." Would that be you? I think so.

As far as what Indy's HATE, it matters not, because an Indy has no rights.. they gave them all up so that IF they vote, they only get to vote what others have put on the ballot for them. They still vote R or D, or throw the vote away in the name of principle when the ballot is unappitizing. Third party votes.. so what?

I only joined the GOP year and a half ago,, I am well aware of being manipulated and hi-jacked by the GOP as a Libertarian. I became an Indy in 93.. I worked with 7 third parties, and saw the inner politics.. was happy to be an Indy because of it.. but now, I am glad to be a RepubliCAN.. I never saw anyone from grassroots in a third party actually have a real chance to become president.. so, after three decades.. I'm done.. But I think it's great there are others like you do continue. GOOD LUCK! HAVE FUN!!

Granger... DEEPER DISSECTION...

LIE:
Ron Paul was a pig at the trough bringing the bacon home to his constituants."
TRUTH:
Ron Paul relayed the requests OF HIS CONSTITUENTS (his job as their rep), but neither SUPPORTED NOR VOTED FOR any pig slop.

GIBBERISH:
He was able to do many things because the GOP made the mistake of not paying attention."
TRUTH:
The leftist republican party ACTIVELY SMOTHERED HIS VOICE.

LIE:
"When he woke us up, he woke them up too"
TRUTH:
When he woke us up, the leftist republican party WAS FORCED TO ACKNOWLEDGE HIM.

LIE:
"and they are fighting us (you help them)."
TRUTH:
The leftist republican party HAS ALWAYS FOUGHT Constitutional Libertarians (with the co-opters helping them).

BASELESS ALISNKYITE SMEARING:
"have a NWO agenda"
OBSERVATION:
Notice the lack of examples or evidence? Again, as a Paulbot, whenever anyone rejects the leftist republican party... you will be accused of having various "agendas"... as if rejection of the leftist republican party, IN AND OF ITSELF, is simply absurd.

INTENTIONALLY MISINTERPRETATION:
"Alcoholism begins by making a choice to drink. Being a boomer is a lable based on when you were born, which is not a choice."
TRUTH:
The BEHAVIOR of drinking, while claiming there is no problem, IS THE SAME AS THE BOOMER BEHAVIOR of supporting republicans, while claiming there is no problem.

IRRELEVANT QUESTION:
When was the last Republican Party even you attended? Honest simple answer.. no excuses.. just when was that?
ANSWER:
Well, my last tea party comes to mind. Co-opting republicans were all over the place talking about "Obama this," "Obama that," "Benghazi this," and "fiscal cliff that." Oh... and "ABO, ABO, ABO, ROMNEY, ROMNEY, USA, USA, USA!!" and other such ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!

FAIL:
"Ron Paul got me into the GOP"
TRUTH:
I'm sure the Doc WOULD NOT WANT TO HEAR THAT. Seems to me his objectives are to spread the message of Constitutional Liberty... not build leftist republican party numbers.

NO SUCH THING:
"Ron Paul Republican"
MORE ACCURATE DESCRIPTION:
Republican.

NO SUCH THING:
"Ron Paul RepubliCAN"
MORE ACCURATE DESCRIPTION:
Republican.

DAMAGE CONTROL:
"getting tons of stuff from him about C4L"
TRUTH:
Yes, I'm sure CFL is struggling for money and CREDIBILITY these days. Their repeated requests for money from me (for the republican party - NOT Constitutional Liberty) will always be returned with $0.00.

STRATEGY:
"STOP BIG GOVERNMENT'S TAKEOVER OF THE INTERNET"
REALITY:
Will not happen within the leftist republican/democrat (same thing) party. Wasn't it "Tea Party Republican" Rubio who cosponsored PIPA?

STRATEGY:
FIGHT NATIONAL SECURITY STATE POWER GRABS DESIGNED TO DESTROY AMERICAN'S CIVIL LIBERTIES
REALITY:
Will not happen within the leftist republican/democrat (same thing) party. Wasn't it "Tea Party Republicans" West, Bachmann, Rubio, etc who extended the UNCONSTITUTIONAL Patriot Act and NDAA?

STRATEGY:
PASS THE AUDIT THE FED TO FINALLY EXPOSE THE FEDERAL RESERVE'S CORRUPTION TO POLICIES AND TURN AUDIT THE FED INTO THE LAW OF THE LAND
OBSERVATION:
Interesting how the word "END" is conspicuously absent.

STRATEGY:
GETTING RAND PAUL THE GOP NOMINATION
Great for REPUBLICANS, not Constitutional Liberty.

STRATEGY:
REPLACING 66 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WITH RON PAUL REPUBICANS in 2014
Great for REPUBLICANS, not Constitutional Liberty.

CONFUSING:
"in 07 it was Ron Paul rEVOLution, and that is where I remain."
CLARITY:
Ron Paul is gone. He's no longer running for anything.

FALSE:
"Last event, Ron Paul had the term RepubliCAN"
TRUTH:
This was a CO-OPTING term created by REPUBLICANS AROUND Ron Paul. My guess would be folks like Benton, Hunter, etc. The same REPUBLICANS who EXCLUDED the Adam Kokesh's of the movement.

PROBLEM:
"so I accept this"
OBSERVATION:
Maybe you should QUESTION... more than... accept.

THANKS:
"Liberty movement.. you can have it"
TRUTH:
Yes, I'm chirping warnings to her AS WE SPEAK, against REPUBLICAN co-opters seeking to slap a REPUBLICAN label on it and call it their own. THE LIBERTY MOVEMENT IS THE RON PAUL MOVEMENT!!!!!!!! IT IS THE r3VOLution!!!!!!! AND REPUBLICAN HAS VERY, VERY, VERY LITTLE to do with it - same as the Tea Party.

ALMOST CORRECT:
"RP rEVOLution as a RepubliCAN."
CORRECT VERSION:
"RP r3VOLution as a republican." See? THERE IS NO "CAN," just republican. LIVE WITH WHAT YOU ARE! Here's another example of CORRECT phrasing: "RP r3VOLution as a democrat."

LIE:
"Ron Paul RepubliCAN.. I have nothing to do with any liberty movement.. that's all yours."
TRUTH:
Again, the REPEATED language mangling to co-opt Ron Paul and his Liberty Movement for the leftist republican party... while CLAIMING otherwise.

ABSOLUTE LIE:
"NWO is bent on destroying the GOP"
TRUTH:
The New World Order IS USING THE LEFTIST, Central Government Planning REPUBLICAN PARTY TO CO-OPT AND DECLAW, DEFANG AND NEUTER THE LIBERTY MOVEMENT, SAME AS THEY DID THE TEA PARTY.

LIE:
"Ron Paul when he said, "If you want to keep your republic, you better get in there and fight for it, because some people want to end the Republic and the party."
TRUTH:
The DECEPTIVE insinuation with all REPUBLICAN co-opters, is that Ron Paul INSTRUCTED OR TAUGHT THEM to strengthen the leftist republican party... when the TRUTH IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE. JUST DAYS AGO, Paul said that BOTH PARTIES WERE DINOSAURS!!!!!!!!

DING, DING, DING!!!!!!!!!!!:
"throw the vote away in the name of principle"
TRUTH:
See? Get a republican co-opter chatting, and they will hang themselves in short time. The noose in this instance, is the BURNED OUT ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICAN LEFTIST'S "throw your vote away"... which was NOT COINCIDENTALLY USED ON RON PAUL SUPPORTERS JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO!

INCORRECT:
"I am glad to be a RepubliCAN"
CORRECT:
"I am glad to be a republican"

Brother Winston Smith

The r3VOLution is NOT republiCAN.

but neither SUPPORTED NOR VOTED FOR any pig slop

He took it none the less. And if that is doing his job, then it's an immoral job, eh?

The GOP ignorned him until he made waves in 07 and as people like myself joined him in the GOP.. they then worked to silence him.

Actually, many of us were already awake and trying to win this battle from outside the GOP. I refused to join the GOP in 07/08, I supported Ron Paul because he was saying what I believed. He was confirming, and educating.. I didn't agree with RP 100%, but I agreed with his platform. I did not agree to his path in the GOP. Now I do. The GOP is still not aknowledging him anything but a "protest vote".

I don't agree, I find that the GOP co-ops the Constitution, American Independent and Libertarian candidates by installing those within the GOP.. Bob Barr, GJ, Chuck Baldwin to name three.

UN AGenda 21 is sold on Amazon.

There is definately a huge massive problem in the GOP and why I decided to join and get to work restoring the republic.

I don't consider the Tea Party Republican anymore than I consider the OWS Democratic.. both are controlled by MSM

I could care less what the Doc wants to hear from me. So far all I've heard is THANK YOU, GREAT JOB!! Please give us more support, which is way more than I heard in 07/08 when I did more work but refused to join the GOP. I'm even invited to a Christmas Party. Seems the campaign rewards action more than financial support.. rather than send money to the campaign, I spent that money getting myself elected and seated.. they seemed pleased,, only regret I have is not doing it in 07/08

On my committee, not all Republicans have the same agenda, interest, influence, objective, goals or beliefs.. I'm very pleased to see the development of my own committee filling with oath keepers as the Neocons retire. It's a great moment to be in the GOP at this time.

I'm very happy to support C4L.

My banners all said rEVOLution and that's what I'm sticking with.. co-op it to r3VOLution,, no biggy..

While I'm not interested in a Ron Paul Liberty Movement.. I certainly wouldn't rain on their parade. I hope they are as happy as I am, and I am very happy where I am and how things are going. I'm sure my county will be among the first to restore the republic.

It was not my idea to join the GOP. I wish I was that briilliant, I would have joined in 07.. but whether you believe it or not.. I was asked to join the GOP. I refused in 07. I was cut off from the campaign. Dropped faster than a hot potato. This campaign. I joined the GOP and have been with the campaign since. I like Benton, Tate, my contacts and it sure beats being dropped. Joining the GOP made all the difference for me. That is my experience, no matter how you chose to twist it or rewrite it.

I am happy to be a Republican, RepubliCAN.. whatever.. I'm not hung up on any lable.. call me whatever you want, just don't call me late for a GOP committee meeting!

Its always dangerous when you dance with the devil

... I almost 100% agree with Brother Winston. While in Tampa I had the opportunity to speak to quite a few Ron Paul Delegates. Most recognized the futility of their actions, while others held to the idea that we just didn't push hard enough. I for one believe that this last primary proved to us that the Republican Party is Done! The fallacy is that, people think its better to fix whats broken than replace it. The Republican Party is in self destruct mode and WE need to be ready to replace it with something else when the time comes. Towards that end, it may better serve OUR MOVEMENT to gather positions of power within the existing system and wait for its demise. The rub comes when those who fill those positions begin to assimilate into the system. This is why if you are going to dance with the Devil, you don't allow the Devil to lead.

I like Rand, and I understand what he is doing and what role he serves in our Movement. He is dancing... and I can only hope he always remembers how he came to have such a position.

What futility?

It wasn't a matter of "pushing". It was a matter of showing up to meetings and conventions and participating in the process. Many delegates had no clue what the process was, what is Robert's Rules of Order, what a Committee is, exactly what they needed to do or how to be vetted. Ron Paul had many duly elected unvetted delegates who got creamed.. and there was BS from the git-go, not just from the GOP/RNC, but from a so called Liberty Movement telling us to sign petitions and join law suits and abandon the GOP ship for GJ.

What gets me though, is I never had anything to do with the GOP until Ron Paul announced his 2nd GOP presidential bid for 2012. After 33 years as a Libertarian and Indy, I thought "what the hell, why not join the GOP as RP campaign is asking me?", and found the GOP was NOTHING like I thought it was, which is what people who have never been to anything GOP (I'm not talking tea party, I'm talking party) tell me.

Brother Winston says my experience in the GOP is irrelevant and what he says the GOP is is THE TRUTH. Well, his truth is NOT my truth, and if it is yours, sobeit. Enjoy, have fun with it, GOOD LUCK. I happen to like my committee meetings and get togethers with my Ron Paul RepubliCAN members too much to stop now.

What I'm not saying is...

Don't acquire positions within the Republican. What I am saying is Do So... Great! Take over the party like Ron Paul said, but Do Not Serve the interest of the "Existing" Party... Serve in the interest of Liberty... always. That means, Take Them Over, but don't become them; force them to become You. This cannot be achieved by pandering to their requests to recruit more "Republicans", but rather Use the Republican Party as a vehicle to Bring More into the Liberty Fold.

I don't know if I can speak for Brother Winston, but I believe he is merely warning those who are fighting this battle for Liberty, within the Republican Party, that the Republican Party sees your presence among them as a benefit that they can exploit to further divide and assimilate our Movement.

Ron Paul, I believe, has only used the Republican Party as a means to Spread His Message... and so must we. But be warned that the Republican Party's plan for you, and those of us with positions of power within their Corporation, is much different. I personally, feel like our battle must be fought on multiple fronts. I differ from you in that I recognize that when you lose sight of the fact that the infiltration of the Republican Party is a means and not an end, then you do a disservice to our Movement.

the compromise is not pandering

We don't have enough Republicans seated to not make compromises.

Brother Wonston is raging against the machine and alit does is reflect on his owninability to change washington.

Ron Paul was alone, and now that is not the case. He's out of office, Rand is in, but we are either going to do this as individuals with sincere interest in restoring the republic, or we're going to bash each other for being losers no matter party or not.

We don't have enough "Republicans"... yes.

But, those who have achieved success in getting those seats neglect the fact that they are but the fruit that grew from the Tree of Liberty, and we are its roots. They gained their positions not through compromise, but through struggle. It is the fate of all who acquire success, to forget those who made it possible. This is also true of America... The Freedoms that our Fore-fathers fought for, provided this nation with the Means to its prosperity. It was only through our conceit that we believed that because we were prosperous, we must compromise and put restrictions and encumbrances upon the very Liberty that allowed our country to acquire its prosperity. The consequence, as Ron Paul clearly outlined in his farewell address, was that because of this conceit, we now have neither Liberty nor Prosperity.

I do not want to see this movement pan out on a micro-scale, as our country did on a Macro-scale. So every time I see compromise, I think of the History of our Nation and how something so Great allowed itself to compromise because of its success. When people like Rand, and I am not hating on Rand... but, when people like Rand, who are the most Ripe Fruit that our tree of Liberty has produced, do things to undermine the very tree that produced his prosperity, I have to object. I don't, like some do, say "well he's dead to me now". I just think that he believes he is making a calculated decision for the greater good; knowing that he will lose support from his base, but make up the ground by picking up brain-dead Republican sheep.

I firmly believe, and try to persuade others to see that this is a flawed approach. We are in the system we are in BECAUSE politicians abandon principal to pick up the vote of Brain-dead sheep. As Ron Paul said, We have to become the change we want... and that we must lead by example.

Some members of our movement, who have acquired political positions, are trading their Gold for Silver... and I think it's a mistake.

Sincerely,
Victor Escobar

//But, those who have

//But, those who have achieved success in getting those seats neglect the fact that they are but the fruit that grew from the Tree of Liberty, and we are its roots. They gained their positions not through compromise, but through struggle. It is the fate of all who acquire success, to forget those who made it possible.//

Not all. "The GOP has lost it's way" Ron Paul. It is obvious the GOP needs help returning to it's roots, and we are here to help them, which means we have to accept what is, and work with it to make it what we want it to be. This goal is fortified with C4L, and those who have struggkled for decades, unlike many who are "young and new to politics, unwilling to bend, and succumbing to further marginalization.

//This is also true of America... The Freedoms that our Fore-fathers fought for, provided this nation with the Means to its prosperity. It was only through our conceit that we believed that because we were prosperous, we must compromise and put restrictions and encumbrances upon the very Liberty that allowed our country to acquire its prosperity. The consequence, as Ron Paul clearly outlined in his farewell address, was that because of this conceit, we now have neither Liberty nor Prosperity.//

I don't buy that it was through conceit, I believe it has been through deceit and robbery our freedoms have been transformed to corporate freedoms and indevidual debt slavery.

//I do not want to see this movement pan out on a micro-scale, as our country did on a Macro-scale. So every time I see compromise, I think of the History of our Nation and how something so Great allowed itself to compromise because of its success.//

It onlt takes a few in in a major party, where many in minor parties and as Indy's have no power. The compromise is going third party and not facing the fight, but fighting from outside

//When people like Rand, and I am not hating on Rand... but, when people like Rand, who are the most Ripe Fruit that our tree of Liberty has produced, do things to undermine the very tree that produced his prosperity, I have to object. I don't, like some do, say "well he's dead to me now". I just think that he believes he is making a calculated decision for the greater good; knowing that he will lose support from his base, but make up the ground by picking up brain-dead Republican sheep.//

Some, who were not delegates, who did not sign the loyalty oaths, have an opinion about Rand's endorsement of Romney, that he betrayed his own father.. but for those like me who were a delegate and signed a loyaty oath, Rand woke me up, and many of us to what the GOP had in mind.. to out us based on our loyalty oath.. so actiallu, Rand helped the stealth delegates get to Tampa. Rand is up against some very powerful people who like to profit off destruction, and they will constantly test him and us to move us out so they continue.. they appreciate your possition and wish we would listen to you.. but I've been where you are for three decades, so for me.. it's your turn. You do it your way and I'm going to do it C4L's way.. GOOD LUCK to you.

//I firmly believe, and try to persuade others to see that this is a flawed approach. We are in the system we are in BECAUSE politicians abandon principal to pick up the vote of Brain-dead sheep. As Ron Paul said, We have to become the change we want... and that we must lead by example.//

Yes, and Ron Paul remains a Republican.

//Some members of our movement, who have acquired political positions, are trading their Gold for Silver... and I think it's a mistake.//

Many members of a so called "Liberty Movement" are opposed to the Ron Paul rEVOLution as RepubliCANs. They have issues with Rand and us, and think they are "pure" and we are compromisers and traitors.. as far as I'm concerned, they can say whatever they want, do whatever they want.. let's who see which of us is better at getting "Liberty candidates" elected.

peace

Brother Winston

Just a suggestion: Breathe long and deep, and clear your mind.

As far as is known, Rand, Justin, will not run on a democrat or other ticket. They will run Republican.

Let the establishment gop tank for all I care. Granger is correct. We must fill those seats with Liberty minded conservatives. It is ours for the taking, but you must work to make it happen. Writing on a forum board will not accomplish that goal.

I know that your heart is in the right place. But now is the time to put your feet in the right place :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Seems our Constitutional Republic's ON HER DEATH BED...

because of YEARS of calm, strategic "breathing long and deep, and clearing our minds."

NO!!!!!! We MUST REALIZE OUR NATION'S DYING! And the republican/democrat (same thing) party are her MURDERERS!

We must fill seats with Constitution Party people. With Libertarian Party people. NOT MORE REPUBLICANS/DEMOCRATS (same thing).

Writing on a forum board IS VERY IMPORTANT, in addition to other efforts. It helps accomplish the goal of WAKING PEOPLE UP. And, ABOVE ALL.. TO HELP THEM IDENTIFY THE CO-OPTING REPUBLICAN WOLVES circling their Liberty Movement prey.

My foot is in the PRECISE RIGHT PLACE, the posterior of the LEFTIST, CHICKENHAWKING, PROGRESSIVE, AMNESTYING, TARPING, CONSTITUTION-SHREDDING TEA PARTY CO-OPTING, LIBERTY MOVEMENT CO-OPTING, RON PAUL CO-OPTING GOP!

Brother Winston Smith

The r3VOLution is NOT republiCAN.

BW, I am with you brother!

But unlike you I do not have the time or patience to waste on those who think that they are the lone exception, to everyone else, insofar as the consequences of their own hubris. You are fighting the good fight like Ron Paul, and I salute you. I wish I could do the same, but I can't. I have to try to survive what is already here, if I hope to have ANY chance to survive what is to come... Hubris and ideolgies can and WILL NOT save ME or ANYBODY else...

For those who refuse to listen or understand this message, let them deal with the consequences of the fate they freely chose for themselves... I am done!!!

Just ran across

Just ran across this:

http://www.dailypaul.com/264755/ron-paul-republicans-take-ov... :
"There were 33 of the 100 Senate seats up for grabs and Ron Paul Republicans took every one."

Maybe there is hope?

Last paragraph..

"Let’s fill in the blank and make this fictional future article a reality."

But yes, we should be working on this.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Thanks...I needed that!

And here I was wondering why I had not been celebrating the last 24 days... Oh well, I had some hope for the last 20 minutes :) I guess I got so excited I failed to read the last paragraph...

**

"And here I was wondering why I had not been celebrating the last 24 days"

Me too.. I had to read that a couple of times before I figured it out.

I would have been happier to temporarily miss the party, if it were only true.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Yah, well I am such a party

Yah, well I am such a party pooper I went back over to that post and took my vote up away which caused a vote down...and started the laundry :)

*

Wha??? You're a bigger bear than I, lol. Good one bear!

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Nah, at least you read things before you start quoting them...

I am just glad I didn't quote that article a 3rd time...bear lesson learned :)

2012 NDAA did not expressly

2012 NDAA did not expressly authorize indefinite detention. It implicitly did by removing the restriction from use against citizens. So it is meaningful but it could be better.

Ventura 2012

Mike Lee

Mike is a lawyer and co-authored this amendment correct?