9 votes

Obamacare Preview: In UK, sick infants starved to death per National Health Service policies: Daily Mail

Coming soon, to a hospital near you, thanks to Obamacare...

Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how children are put on end-of-life plan

• Practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube being used on young patients
• Doctor admits starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in neonatal unit
• Liverpool Care Pathway subject of independent inquiry ordered by ministers
• Investigation, including child patients, will look at whether cash payments to hospitals to hit death pathway targets have influenced doctors' decisions

[...]

One doctor has admitted starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in the neonatal unit of one hospital alone.

Writing in a leading medical journal, the physician revealed the process can take an average of ten days during which a baby becomes ‘smaller and shrunken’.

The LCP – on which 130,000 elderly and terminally-ill adult patients die each year – is now the subject of an independent inquiry ordered by ministers.

[...]

Bernadette Lloyd, a hospice paediatric nurse, has written to the Cabinet Office and the Department of Health to criticise the use of death pathways for children.

'‘I have also seen children die in terrible thirst because fluids are withdrawn from them until they die'

She said: ‘The parents feel coerced, at a very traumatic time, into agreeing that this is correct for their child whom they are told by doctors has only has a few days to live. It is very difficult to predict death. I have seen a “reasonable” number of children recover after being taken off the pathway.

‘I have also seen children die in terrible thirst because fluids are withdrawn from them until they die.

‘I witnessed a 14 year-old boy with cancer die with his tongue stuck to the roof of his mouth when doctors refused to give him liquids by tube. His death was agonising for him, and for us nurses to watch. This is euthanasia by the backdoor.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2240075/Now-sick-bab...

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Wondering if this is so people will be screaming for a painless

injection so they can be "put down" mercifully like a dog instead of being starved to death...

Hegalian Dialectic? Makes me sick.

Freedom is the Solution

My brother was hospitalized at Kaiser this week, and they served him corn syrup (Jello).

If Kaiser were to apply their resources toward good nutrition and meeting the needs of patients intstead of the needs of government, I'd be a lot happier.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

How can people read this

and not want to just go kick the shit out these politicians and doctors.

I am so sick of people like this doctor "it is becoming harder to walk in every day" blah blah blah. And yet you show up everyday - and administer more sick and cruel advice and treatment. Get your balls out of your moms purse and make a stand you loser. Quit crying like a friggin baby and man up.

What kind of a weak minded, sick person can sit and watch a baby starve to death? Or a 14 year old die of dehydration.

Effin disgusting. I hope they find a nice place in hell.

To die

..in a hospitable from anything but trauma seems like a sin almost imo. Everyone should die at home if possible.

The food ...how can a hospital even consider serving this garbage? I would not even give it to a dog or raccoon.

The windows do not even open and you have to pay for parking.

Heck, if someone opened a small hospital in a mall they do would much better just on the free parking alone lol

I knew of a huge public health care supporter once and even he preferred to die at home in the long run after a lengthy illness.

donvino

Hey, utopians have to learn the hard way.

The pro-single-payer, dead brained idealists who think healthcare can be run like fire departments don't realize:
1. Firemen don't go through eight years of college and accrue over $100,000 in student debt to become a fireman.
2. People tend to get sick a lot more often than fires break out.
3. 73% of all U.S. firemen are volunteers and therefore not paid by our tax-dollars anyway. http://www.ehow.com/about_4828578_volunteer-firefighters.html You're not going to get volunteer doctors.

Agree with your sentiments, but let correct a few things...

1. Doctors do go through at least 8 years. 50% of aspiring doctors have to first get a Master's degree and/or do research before medical school acceptance. This adds time and money. Plus you have to do a residency for 3-7 years AFTER 4 years of med school. The residencies pay an average of 12 dollars an hour. Even most dentists do residencies now, for at least 1 year pist doc

100,000 dollar debt? I WISH. Try 300,000. Dental school is 70,000 a year just in tuition. At 8% interest. And our generous government just stopped most of the subsidized loans, meaning medical students have compounding interest at a time when it is nearly impossible to earn income. We are being screwed.

3. Doctors still do a tremondous amount of charity work. This is partially why the free market works. But charity will decline because the poor already have such an extensive welfare system. The socialist system discourages charity.

You're absolutely right.

It seems that the only people who become doctors today are either the ones that really wanted to become doctors since they were little or the ones who's parents are paying for the entire thing. A surgeon might make 300,000 thousand a year however they had to spend usually atleast 8 years of schooling not making any money and borrowing money just to live and then 4 years in a residency program borrowing even more money especially if they have families before they can even think about making anywhere near that money. Then after that it's payback time. Doesn't seem so great if you think about it. Best case scenario of doctors I know you start scool at 18 by the time your 30 your done and if you've been really careful you only have about 300,000 in student loans.

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    Parents are consenting to this.

    Everyone seems to miss that part. The people there are conditioned to accept this. We are being conditioned to accept this - "hospice" is a very slippery slope, and we be slidin' folks.

    Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

    And it started with disregard for the preborn

    We must ask: 1) Who stands to make a profit 2) and off of who 3) and how?

    You know those fish you farm...

    I'll agree to disagree, will you?

    I do not feel it is my place to make moral or medical decisions for anyone but me. If I choose to "murder" my "preborn" child, it is between me and my Creator. I do not owe anyone else an explanation, nor need anyone else even know. Now, I got lucky - the guy who raped me did not impregnate me, but had I gotten pregnant and had I chosen abortion, I get the feeling you would have demanded I carry that child to term - risking my life. I believe there are women here on earth who are worth more than an incubator for unwanted sperm wads.
    Now then, how about we find our common ground - what in the world does this have to do with fish? (I plan to eat the unborn fish, if that is what you are getting at...)

    Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

    It sure would take alot of them to get full!

    I am sorry that happened to you, and those words are not near enough, I know I cannot even imagine the horror. I am sorry someone did that to you.

    What I was trying to say is that WE are the fish in the corporate farm and that there is a money making industry attached to the abortion and healthcare issues. The criminals are making us pay, pay, pay and then they decide what kind of care we can have.

    I am wondering. Are there and charity abortion clinics? Maybe there are. I know there are charity crisis pregnancy centers who help mothers carry the unborn.

    No woman is an incubator. I am taking it that you believe in a Creator? Then, you, fishy, are a wonderful and miraculous creation, not an incubator.

    I would not and do not demand anything of you. Yes, I would have encouraged you towards granting life if you were carrying a child and helped you if you wanted it. I am not judge or jury for anyone's actions. There are people who deeply regret their abortions and that would be a terrible trauma to add to a rape. But no one can know but the person in the situation. Not me. I am no one.

    That being said, there are 50 MILLION slaughtered humans on American Soil that were not products of rape. They had no opportunity for life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness and were terminated without their own concent, trial, or representation. And I am saying there is a financial reason for that event and someone is making money.

    I think our common ground is that we are in a fight for Liberty. Ron Paul says if we do not protect life we cannot protect Liberty. There is meaning to those words and we are seeing them played out here in this forum right here where people are being conditioned to let children die. When we are all tied together in social medicine there is a financial advantage withhold treatment from the sick.

    IMO It boils down to the value placed on money vs the value placed on humanity. The beginning of humanity is the unborn child.

    ...

    In 1973 wise men

    said that abortion was the beginning of the slippery slope. They said that next would be old people and the handicapped. Most others just mocked and rolled their eyes, and they are the ones who turned out to be the fools.

    Francis Schaeffer

    Yes, I believe one of those men was Francis Schaeffer:

    http://www.peopleforlife.org/francis.html

    This is Exactly Why Ron Paul Said

    "Unless we understand…we must protect life, we cannot protect liberty."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkAsLPrnJGc&feature=player_em...

    Wrong!

    Obamacare is not going to kill anyone who doesn't submit to the medical industry. You give them the god like power over your life then you deserve to die according to their wishes. But no matter what they do with health care they do not pose a threat to me or others who do not give them authority over us. It's the same with many diseases like AIDS for instance, I do not worry about it because I cannot contract the disease because I don't submit to the deviant lifestyle.

    When they try to mandate "healthcare" then we will have a problem. Oh and it is coming, believe me.

    They already do mandate healthcare

    those vaccines are not optional in CT - they are mandated.

    Really?

    There is nothing that separates you or me from a sick infant except for age and health.

    Do you not understand what Ron Paul meant when he said: "Unless we understand…we must protect life, we cannot protect liberty."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkAsLPrnJGc&feature=player_em...

    I have already heard that 75 year olds with cancer will not get treatment... I heard that Sunday from a friend. I guess I better go check it out and see if it is fact or fiction.

    Have you ever had cancer? I have and you are at peoples mercy to do the right thing for you because you cannot do for yourself.

    I had ovarian cancer ready to burst. Once that happens all the cancer cells distribute within the pernial cavity and affect the rest of the abdominal organs. It is a silent killer. I had to have surgery to have the stuff removed...they didn't even know before they went in that I had cancer...they thought it was just a cyct because I was so "young"...I didn't meet the criteria for ovarian cancer...what do you think controlled medical care will look like...it will be a flow chart, and if you don't fit...well then too bad.

    They will control the doctors, don't you see. Maybe you can find a doctor outside the system...if they are allowed to even practice.

    My dog has free healthcare and I am the one who decides for my dog. My dog has no way to opt out. Do you not see you are a "farm" animal meant to make a profit for the Illegal Criminal Farm. They will take your labor in the form of taxes and then decide what you will get before you are harvested for someone younger and healthier to take your place.

    We do not know what it is like to live in a high mortality society because previously we have had a somewhat free enterprise medical system and prosperity to boot.

    ...

    I don't think you get it.

    I don't go to the doctor so what happens with the health care system is moot as long as they don't try to mandate that I take part in it. I have faith in a higher power and if I live or die by His will then so be it. I will not put my faith in men to try and usurp His authority. Remember what Yahshua (jesus) said to the sick that he healed, "Your sins are forgiven." I will leave it at that.

    Some more things to remember

    Do you remember what Jesus said about the blind men when the disciples asked Jesus who had sinned: this man or his parents?

    John 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

    Do you remember what Paul told Timothy?

    1 Timothy 5:23 KJV
    Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

    ME: In the last 10 years I have had 2 complicated pregnancies, multiple hospital stays, 5 surgeries, cancer and chemo. I give God all the glory because I am here alive and enjoy and am helping to raise 2 young men to love the same Jesus who died for me. I have had churches full of people praying for me. I have also had doctors and medicine, none of which would have been of any effect if the Lord God had chosen differently, and it is in His Hands that I rest.

    The champion of Liberty...Dr. Ron Paul. I had a great doctor like him helping me and I have no doubt that God lead me to that doctor and that that doctor took a special interest in seeing my children born when another doctor told me I wasn't pregnant at all and was ready to sign me up for surgery...perhaps I had sinned, and perhaps it was to the glory of God, and perhaps I will only know fully when I am there with Him.

    That same doctor is the one who removed my cancer 4 years later. I am grateful the doctor and my Lord who guided his hands, after all that doctor is only like the mud in the hand of the Lord that was applied to the blind man's eyes.

    ...

    Oh you have never contracted a disease from another person?

    You must be superman! (sarcasm)

    In this comment and in others you have used the word deviant, but you don't seem to understand the meaning of it.

    Deviancy is departing from the norm. Interacting with other humans, including sex, is normal behavior in our society. If you are somehow not doing this things, it is YOU who is the deviant.

    From what I have gathered you seem to be a fanatic fundamentalist, and this is a without a doubt a DEVIATION from the norm in society. So please spare us from your hypocritical preaching.

    You just can't help making an idiot of yourself can you.

    I didn't say that I don't or won't catch some illness. I said I wont catch some disease "like" AIDS. Totally preventable by our actions. And you can take your stupid argument over semantics somewhere else also Lungren.

    The fact is that you and your doctor gods you defend so vehemently and your way of thinking causes more sickness and death than your supposed intellect can comprehend. And your totally stupid comment below about having more sex partners is better for you just seals your total lack of relevancy to any intelligent conversation.

    Maybe you should learn a thing or two about cause and affect. But I'm sure you will find some way to keep your belief that having more sex partners will lessen your chance of catching a STD. You win the award on that one.

    sex outside a monogamous marriage between a man & woman

    leads to disease--that's a fact.

    Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

    Sex leads to disease in a monogamous marriage, too.

    No two people have the same oral flora or urogenital flora. Everytime you kiss, every time you hsve sex you and your wife transmit bacteria, viruses, and fungi to each other.

    Has your wife ever had a urinary tract infection? You probably caused that.

    "Marriage" does not give you some magical immunity cloak. That's a fact.

    **Edit. I thought I was responding to anothernobody.

    Promiscuity can actually be beneficial for your immune system. The more pathogens you are exposed to the more antibodies you develop.

    I responded

    to your last comment above.

    But I also say that marriage does give you immunity to certain disease if the marriage is respected by both spouses. That is a fact lungren.

    And if a faithful man is capable of contracting a virus to give his wife a urinary tract infection then the faithful wife is also capable of contracting it without his help. So again your argument falls short and the argument for promiscuity fails.

    When you are married you become one and as long as you stay that way then you have no more significant chance of infecting each other than you do infecting yourself.

    A urniary tract infection

    is not on the list of venereal diseases.

    STDs are diseases where the primary vector is sex

    But sexual activity can spread other diseases that aren't classified as an STD (or venereal disease).

    Sex can most definitely cause a UTI (in fact it causes 75-90% in women.) It doesn't matter if you are promiscuous or monogamous. Sex can lead to disease. It can also make you more immune to disease. It goes both ways.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urinary_tract_infection

    People who support obama care don't get this is our future

    I used to support a single payer system for America until I actually learned what it meant. Who doesn't want "free" healthcare? It's an easy sell.

    - It's not free
    - It's not healthy
    - It's not private
    - It removes your control
    - and it turns into guiding you toward death because you are too expensive to live.
    - You go from being a patient to being a burden on society. Imagine the cost of a chronically sick child. The state would rather not pay for that.
    - Doctors go from trying to cure you or at the very least pushing pharmaceuticals at you to giving you the minimal amount of care in the minimal amount of time to rack up the minimal amount of cost.
    - you are now a number and suddenly it becomes clear to everyone in the healthcare business that we are "over populated" and the more of us that die the better.
    - It makes us cattle. We are either useful part of the herd worth calling the vet for or we are past our usefulness and are taken behind the barn and shot.

    With all the shouting going

    With all the shouting going on about daily fitness care crisis, many are probably finding it difficult to concentrate, much less understand the cause of the problems confronting us.

    Managed care has been here for years

    "- Doctors go from trying to cure you or at the very least pushing pharmaceuticals at you to giving you the minimal amount of care in the minimal amount of time to rack up the minimal amount of cost."

    THIS has been happening already for years within the current insurance system It is called "managed care" as I have learned from an informed discussion at a Thanksgiving table last week. Too late.

    An example is Keiser system whose family doctor made me sicker than I ever was and prevented me from seeing any specialist, except herself (heart specialist). She just could have follow basic family doctor recommendations - saving me from years of unnecessary pain and malaise.

    Obama care still leaves 27 million Americans without insurance. Moreover it really is "ClintonCare" - Hillary was pushing the mandate to buy - which I hate and will never succumb to - in the 2008 democratic primary.

    And whatever the system - health insurance MUST be separated from our work places. Otherwise, as it is, it is one of the instruments of making us serfs. (serves?)

    Ron Paul ... forever.