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Why is Israel our ally, some even argue the greatest of our allies?

We have all heard of it, Israel is our ally, we must defend our greatest ally, Friends don't let friends get nuked, the list goes on.

So here's something to discuss, why is Israel our ally at all?

I have not heard of anyone who gives a reason behind their statement: "Israel is our ally" Friends, family, politicians, or media talking heads. It was simply given to me as a fact.

What have Israel ever done that is in favor of the United States, but is not directly in their national interests? Because I am sure the USA have done that in many occasions.

Why were they considered an "ally" to begin with?

Where did the notion of Israel being an ally even come from?

I hope anyone who comments can help to shed light on this matter



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Why did Europe become so prosperous during the 2nd millennium then? Europe's treatment of its own Jewish population was never very good, and yet Europe nonetheless became the undisputed center of the civilized world and remained such until fairly recently.

I'm not necessarily saying your hypothesis is wrong, I'm just pointing out that if you study history there appears to be a lot of data that doesn't fit the John Hagee/Hal Lindsey claim re: a correlation between support for Israel and economic prosperity.

Well, like the commentor below said,

prosperity results primarily through a respect for property rights, low taxes, etc. But, the idea is that if God still rewards nations based on their treatment of the Jews, then He will allow those nations to develop governments that are protective of property rights, keep taxes low, keep the nation at peace, etc. The Spanish treated the Jews horribly under Ferdinand and Isabela and about 100 years later their Armada got crushed by the British who took their place as the most dominant European power. The Spanish economy has lagged behind the rest of the "civilized" world for over two hundred years. I read in one history book that the Dutch and British American colonists welcomed Jewish refugees and treated them well during the 17th and 18th centuries. I'm pretty sure England didn't treat Jews badly from the Reformation until the 20th century.

But, you're right. It could all be coincidence. I'm inclined to doubt that though, since I believe that Jesus rose from the dead, will one day return to earth, and will restore the nation of Israel. I think we should be friendly towards Israel and trade with them, but, I don't think we should let them or any other country influence our foreign policy like we do.

The Arab world was very good

The Arab world was very good to the Jews pre Zionism. Yet they stayed mired in poverty.

Good point.

Rome also didn't fall for quite some time after butchering the Jews. The Jews cried out to Pilot concerning Jesus, "his blood be on us and upon our children" and boy was it ever. In the Old Testament, if the Israelites rebelled against God and His Law and started turning to idols, God would send in heathen nations to defeat Israel militarily, to punish Israel and get them to turn back to Him. But, He would later judge that particular nation for being the instrument to make war on His people. That sounds contradictory, but, it's not when you consider the promise God made to Abraham that He would bless those that bless him and curse those that curse him.

The fundamental difference though between then and now is that God isn't trying to get Israel to turn back to following the Law of the Old Testament. Jesus fulfilled all of that when He came. So, the argument could be made that Israel isn't under punishment like they were when they strayed away during the OT, but, under outright judgement for rejecting and murdering the Son of the God they claimed to be serving.

Like I said. I'm not really sure how God deals with nations based on how they treat the Israelites in this time period.

Jesus condemned the Jews you

Jesus condemned the Jews you idiot. Why do you think the Jews HATE Jesus so much?

What does that have to do with anything?

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy." - the Apostle Paul regarding the Jews (Romans 11:25-31)

Exactly, not sure why you

Exactly, not sure why you think that was an argument against what I said. Did the Jews listen to that? Uhm no.

Well...

Well. Some Jews did. To this day there are still Jews that become Christians. But, Paul was referring to a future event: [And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:]
That obviously hasn't happened yet. The issue surrounding Israel is whether or not God's promise to Abraham regarding his descendants through Isaac that he would bless those that bless them and curse him that curses them still applies to the Israelites between when they rejected Jesus almost 2,000 uears ago and the time they repent and accept Him at His second coming........in other words, in this time period today.

Like

US, EU had adopted corporatism and some EU countries even Fabian socialism. That is the result of the decay.

Private property is allowed but its use is fully controlled via regulations and taxes. It has nothing to do with god, Jews, Irish or Pope.

I think it's the way Ron Paul...

...put it. We give them money and then tell them what to do with their borders. As he put it, it's more us bribing them.

Blue Republicans would prefer to stick to Fabian UK

while our Muslim collectivists would like us to befriend Russia, Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Israel is the only capitalist country left in the region. It has the second-largest number of startup companies in the world (after the United States) and the largest number of NASDAQ-listed companies outside North America. [Notice, not China, not Germany, not Swiss, not Japan.]

I dunno

If Israel is the only capitalist country left(How would the other states even function?), but is that really a reason to get behind them on everything?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Israel isn't capitalist.

They have socialized medicine (OK, now we do too thanks to Obama). Also they have as much of a welfare state as any country in Western Europe. Granted, since Netanyahu Israel has moved away a bit from socialism. However, keep in mind that many of the first arrivals were from Eastern Europe and held strong socialist sympathies as a result; the kibbutzim were (and still are) a notable example of this. So it seems almost Orwellian to flat-out call Israel a capitalist country, and yet neocons seem to do it all the time, probably because they think rank-and-file Republicans are too dumb to think critically about whether that is actually true.

Lana

It is okay to hate Jews or Zionists or Israel. It is not okay to be detached from reality. Beisdes USA, Swiss, Hong Kong, and Singapore, there are few countries that are more capitalistic than Israel. Again, sense of proportions and reality should be here. If you like Turkey or Egypt, than is fine with me.

it is not a matter of welfare programs, but how much private property is regulated.

ha-ha-ha

For an individualist person who advocates a free society, tell me

- what other capitalist countries are in the region?
- what is your pick?

First

Define the region

My pick? None. China is the US's biggest trading partner, but no one in the political world would consider them an "ally" the way Israel is.

I am trying to figure out why they're such an important ally, or it's just all propaganda.

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

You are confused

I do not know is it misinformation or personal anxiety.

1) CIA shares info with Canada, UK, Australia, & NZ. Not with Israel.
2) USA people's life is pledged to defend NATO countries, Turkey and Japan if they are attacked. There is no such agreement with Israel.
3) EU banks get $trillions. No such ammount is available for Israel.

Sense of proportions and reality should not be lost.

Well, I don't think anybody with a brain denies

Israel is the most capitalist country in the Middle East. But, that's not a reason in and of itself to be an ally to Israel and not be an ally to non-capitalist nations. The Founders wanted "alliances with none." We should trade with whomever wants to trade with us. A more socialist economy may be less protectionist at times than a capitalist economy. Ultimately, our government's foreign policy should be based on what's best for Americans (without exploiting other peoples), not what's best for global capitalism.

True

That is why USA taxpayers, like you, pay for the defense of NATO countries, including Turkey and Japan. So those countries can afford free education and medical service on your buck.

You also pay for defense of Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, etc.

What the

What the fuck are you trying to say? Are you saying taxpayers paid the money WILLFULLY? That because they support this cause, they pay for it?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

You twist my words

or extrapolate. I AM for cutting aid to ALL.

Just remember, if all dollars are counted, Israel will get ahead. Therefore, those who are against Israel should not advocate cutting aid to ALL.

I can't want to go to war for

I can't want to go to war for Israel in Iran too. We're already spending political capital on sanctions and paying higher gas prices for them. We should do more. http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2012/10/03/why-i-dislike...

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-07-28/us-sees-israel-tig...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/20/jane-harman-recorde...

Ventura 2012

There is no draft

Unless you sold your soul for free education to kill people on your own will, nobody will draft you. Why hysteria?

How do you not know about

How do you not know about selective service? What happens if we get hit again? Could very well be a draft. And its my tax money that pays for this Satanic, immoral crap.

Ventura 2012

There is no

need for troops on the ground. They are volneruble and not effective.
US is not Israel. It can torture and kill with no retrain from UN or Human rights groups. If attacked badly (say with atomic bomb), USA would use technology instead of drafting ABLE people like you.

We don't know what the

We don't know for sure what the endgame for these madmen is. Lets not open pandoras box and lets not let traitors among us convince us to murder innocent people for a foreign country on our dime.

Ventura 2012

For one

- without Jews creating atomic bomb, Americans would be sucking a sweaty communist party member from Russia or China. Paper dollar would not buy a thing.

Why are you so obsessed with

Why are you so obsessed with race? The topic is Israel not Jewish immigrants to America. Not Israelis. Are you a eugenicist? You sound like some Obamaphone lady going off about how black people are the best basketball players lol.

Ventura 2012

What's that got to do with being an ally to Israel?

If a Chinese invents something that America benefits from does that mean we should be in perpetual allied bondage to China as a means of showing our gratitude?

No

You can stick to Sharia Law sh{i}thole anytime. You get oil and in return you can supress the local people with puppet kings or dictators.