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Is anyone organizing an effort to hold Rand accountable?

I do not understand why so many people are blindly defending Rand Paul. He is not being consistent in his fight for Liberty. I applaud him for being the most Liberty minded voice in the Senate, but is that enough? He still seems to compromise the principles we hold dear. The same people out there who proudly proclaimed they would not vote for the lesser of two evils in the Presidential election, are the ones giving Rand a pass because he's the lesser of evils in the Senate. Why are we settling for Ron Paul-lite? Why aren't we demanding that anyone who wishes to represent the Liberty movement be completely consistent and stand strong on principle, not politics. Ron Paul set the bar high, but I don't think we should settle for those that fall short. Ron makes Rand look like a neocon. I personally have much more hope for Justin Amash than Rand. I'm not suggesting we abandon our support for Rand, but we must be careful not to be fooled. We must have high expectations for the leaders of our movement. If we settle for those who compromise, we will just end up with another Ronald Reagan...someone who can talk the talk but fails to consistently walk the walk. If we don't set the bar high, our revolution won't last long. Below is Rand's contact info. I have a feeling I'll get more complaints than him though...
http://www.paul.senate.gov/?p=contact
Washington, DC
208 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington DC, 20510
Phone: 202-224-4343



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Perhaps if I were form KY

Seems to me that we should all be keeping our senators in line. No reason to give Rand some kind of special treatment.

How does being Ron Paul's son make him somehow more accountable to you than someone else?

We don't need to hold him accountable every step of the way, any more than the next guy. He's a big boy now. He can make his own choices.

Now, back up, and give him enough room to prove where his personal convictions will take him. He shouldn't be treated with special kid gloves. If he goes in the right direction, great, if not ... that's not our problem any more so than the other 99 senators.

He's not the last hope for mankind, by any stretch of the imagination.

Any attempts to hold Saint Rand accountable...

will be buried in cries of "Heresy!".

Oddly, Rand is praised for doing things his father was praised for not doing, for example: compromising, playing politics, and being "pragmatic" instead of principled.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

He is doing a great job imo.

I wish him well.

donvino

The House is checkers, the Senate is Chess!

the thing is: pretty much everything I object to in Rand Paul's votes amounts to strategic maneuvering at places where his vote would not actually make a difference, so as long as he keeps doing good things for liberty in the senate and does occasionally go down fighting, I'm willing to look past some of those bad votes on sanctions and such as not making him a "lesser evil" in the senate, per se.

Listen, I love that Ron always voted "no" on principle even when it wouldn't matter. But the House and the Senate are two completely different animals, no one in the House cares about one or two "cooky" principled voters because they can easily marginalize them. For a Senator to be effective, every vote has to be a strategic move. We're all watching Rand play chess and bitching and moaning when he sacrifices a pawn or two to save himself from checkmate and keep in the game... he's got some great gambits aimed at checkmating them and having a real shot at the presidency.

SO far he can be characterized in the Senate as fighting hard for many things and strategically retreating in some of the fights he has no chance of winning anyway. Can you point to anything he's done that can not easily be characterized this way? Right now the only complaint is that he isn't giving enough symbolic lone "no" votes (although he does have some, like that bill that basically authorized force against Iran where the vote was 90 to 1), that he isn't a marginalized Senator Dr. No.

SteveMT's picture

I understand your great comment.

You are helping me understand the possible thought process behind Rand's vote.

Now, I am thinking what Ron Paul would say about this. I believe it would go something like this:

The Constitution is the Constitution whether you are in the House, the Senate, or the oval office. Every elected Congressman, Senator, and President swears to uphold it with the very same words. They either vote, sign, or veto bills or override the vetoes with those same words in mind. They all have to answer to the People for their actions. If you can justify this vote, then can you also also justify a president going to war hastily, or the passage and signing of a bill like the Patriot Act or the NDAA with every good intention?

There's more to it than that

No I don't think you can justify such things. The strategic retreats taken by Rand amount to moments wherein his own vote would not have any chance of changing the outcome, a president has every ability to change the outcome of going to war or signing a bill, and Rand has clearly stood up in many cases in much the same way he'd be challenged to stand up as president when he knows he can actually affect change. I've not seen anything to make me doubt that he is willing and able to stand his ground in the battles he can really do so in. If he was president and congress had a supermajority against him and he did some strategic move to agree to sign rather than veto a bill if they put some amendment in it to fix something problematic, it would be a similar action.

I understand the argument that he swore to uphold the Constitution, but I think the particular strategy he is employing is aimed at significantly restoring and upholding the constitution to the best of his ability.

God bless you for challenging

God bless you for challenging me with reason and a sound argument instead of just ranting like most everyone else on here!

"I will not submit to authority of man. I'm alive, I'm awake, this is more than I can take." -Jordan Page

I would simply be happy if everyone here would ignore...

any attempts to draft Rand or help a Rand Paul for President campaign in 2016 or any other year.

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libtards never cease to amaze me.
ever think of calling and telling him thank you for all the filibusters and telling us gvt has a gadzillion wiretaps on us?
ever think of saying thanks for calling mccain a troll and telling feinstein and boxer to get out of his home toilets??
how about when he placed ads in 4 dem districts to announce their support for foreign aid which brought the great graham cracker out in their defense??
How about the thanks demint said to rand just yesterday.

libtards are absolutely the most obnoxious stunts in american history.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

libtards vs. paulbots

must we really sink to that level? can't we be better than that?

could you ever envision Dr. Ron Paul calling anyone a "libtard"?

I agree with most of what you

I agree with most of what you said, yet the way you worded this and your post below makes me 100% sure you're a troll/attention wh0re.

Ventura 2012

I agree that he should

be held accountable. However, he only needs to be accountable to the great state of Kentucky. I don't reside there, so I focus on my own Senators.

I've given up on my Senators.

I've given up on my Senators. If Rand is to be the voice of our movement, he must be accountable to the principles that define it. If not, Justin Amash is looking good.

"I will not submit to authority of man. I'm alive, I'm awake, this is more than I can take." -Jordan Page

We're all taxpayers so he's accountable to us all

Also, if he has aspirations to run for president.. well the above fits well there too.

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Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

It might be more worthwhile to hold the other

99 accountable.

I somewhat disagree. The

I somewhat disagree. The other 99 don't claim our values or carry our flag. Is it not more important to hold accountable someone who's on your side than someone who isn't? If they claim the Liberty movement, we have to hold them accountable to the principles that the movement holds dearly. I just don't understand why so many people are ok with "Ron Paul-lite".

"I will not submit to authority of man. I'm alive, I'm awake, this is more than I can take." -Jordan Page

People only have just so much

time in their lives. For me, I would use it to focus on the others instead of trying to purify already-good-guy-Rand to the nth degree.

Excuse me, but didn't ALL of them

take an oath to uphold the US Constitution? Did I miss something? I mean other than the fact that they don't do what they've taken an oath to do.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

Yes, but we cannot control

Yes, but we cannot control him. Your point is important because we do not want to give him a free pass or compromise our own principles because our favorite politician compromises his. With Ron Paul I was the same way. We need to think independently and be consistent ourselves in order to even recognize when our representatives are going off track. Especially with Rand playing politics many people will just give him a free pass, but we shouldn't forget that Ron Paul did not play politics and we liked him because we knew what we were getting and we could trust him. Trust is earned through principle and consistency and honesty and openness, etc.

Rand will be accountable on election day. I applaud him.

Why don't you first start an effort to hold the other 99 senators accountable.

Why do you insist on pestering the most liberty minded US Senator we have had representing us in decades?

What is your real purpose here? Maybe you would like him to vote more Neo-Con?

.

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they have their eyes clouded and their noses plugged because its so far up hillaries a$$,
they could NEVER vote for rand! Thank God!
the progressive left has always stunk up every one of the paul campaigns, and its good to see them stay away from rand. i hope he is smart enough to keep these ignoramuses out.
had his father of done that, he would most certainly be president ron paul by now.
libtards confuse and twist the issues and do not understand fiscal conservatism or constitutional gvt and NEVER will. that is why they hate the tea party and seek to call it a liberty movement now. as long as they stay away from rand and ron im all for it.

hillary will be their next "liberty" leader just watch!lol
most were obama voters in 08.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Your rambling proves your

Your rambling proves your ignorance. You are the one making unfair associations. The Liberty movement is distinct from the Tea Party. While they have many similarities, they differ when it comes to consistency. Most Tea Party candidates don't vote too differently from the neocons!

"I will not submit to authority of man. I'm alive, I'm awake, this is more than I can take." -Jordan Page

Calling another member ignorant isn't doing you much good,

especially when you don't see the difference between the Liberty movement and the R3VOLution. And there IS a difference. Make no mistake about that. Please do your own homework more carefully and have your facts straight before accusing another person of "making unfair associations". Your "associations" need some work.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

please enlighten me then

please enlighten me then

"I will not submit to authority of man. I'm alive, I'm awake, this is more than I can take." -Jordan Page

I understand your frustration.

But dont we have bigger fish to fry? Look at the big picture here... your post should say, "Is there anything being done to hold Boehner, McCain, Graham, Reid, etc. accountable?" Just saying, its easy to try and burn a man you feel that you and others have a significant amount of power over ( which we do collectively. Try and bring those we dont have power over to their knees for their various crimes. Rand, Amash, Mike Lee and other liberty folk in congress are a shining light in a sea of turds. Yet we sit hear day after day eating our own when there is people like Rubio to feast on. Im not saying agree with Rand 100%. But what I am saying is fight someone worth fighting. Picking on Rand is somewhat ridiculous to me considering all the other fools who are a thousand times worse.

“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.” - F.A. Hayek

I'm not picking on Rand. Just

I'm not picking on Rand. Just like i wouldn't settle for the lesser of two evils in the Presidential election, I won't settle for the least tyrannical Senator. We have to be consistent. I would argue that it's more important to keep those already on our side accountable, as opposed to those who aren't, and will not be on our side. I am very grateful of the things that Rand is fighting for, but he's still playing the left-right game. Have we already forgotten his father's example of consistently being the lone voice of reason, no matter how popular it was. Ron voted on principle regardless of the inevitable. He never played these games, and I expect the same of his son.

"I will not submit to authority of man. I'm alive, I'm awake, this is more than I can take." -Jordan Page

There's not really anything

There's not really anything wrong with this, but I really can't understand how people are so upset that Rand voted for a defense authorization bill that was passed unanimously, that contained two important amendments that he fought hard to pass. On the other hand, I do agree that he deserves to be criticized for voting in favor of sanctions on Iran. I would like to hold him accountable on that and make him realize that those of us in the liberty movement disagree with him on that particular issue.

Yeah, i never said

Yeah, i never said specifically what votes i was referring to. But most of us are upset with at least one of his votes. I just dont understand why the people aren't doing everything possible to keep him in check.

"I will not submit to authority of man. I'm alive, I'm awake, this is more than I can take." -Jordan Page

Thanks for taking this

Thanks for taking this approach rather than just hurling insults at Rand like many others have been doing.

We have to be productive.

We have to be productive. This forum doesn't exist for people to vent or complain. It exists to share important info and to organize grassroots efforts. I'm just trying to suggest a productive response! I appreciate the productive comments as well!

"I will not submit to authority of man. I'm alive, I'm awake, this is more than I can take." -Jordan Page