80 votes

UPDATE 3: Rand Paul Explains NDAA Vote & Justin Amash Responds

https://www.facebook.com/notes/rand-paul/explanation-of-ndaa...

I have noticed that many are confused by my vote for NDAA. Please allow me to explain.

First, we should be clear about what the bill is. NDAA is the yearly defense authorization bill. It’s primary function is to specify which programs can and can't be funded within the Pentagon and throughout the military. It is not the bill that spends the money—that comes later in an appropriations bill.

Because I think we should spend less, I will offer amendments to cut spending. I will likely vote against the final spending bill. This wasn't it.

This bill also isn’t about indefinite detention. This year's bill did not contain the authorization for indefinite detention.

That provision was in last year's NDAA bill.

The bill this year contained the amendment I supported which sharply limited the detention power, and eliminated it entirely for American citizens in the US. While it is only a partial victory, it was a big victory. Particularly compared to what passed last year. Even so, I will continue to fight to protect anyone who could possibly be indefinitely detained.

I would never vote for any bill, anywhere, that I believed enhanced the government's power to abridge your rights and detain people. This goes against every principle I hold dear and the Constitution I took an oath to uphold and protect.

Government power and the many associated abuses have been piling up for years. We will not win all our liberties back at once. But we did win one battle this year, and we should be pleased that we did while also realizing the fight is really just getting started.

I hope you will keep fighting alongside me.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/rand-paul/explanation-of-ndaa...

UPDATE:

Justin Amash's response via Facebook:

Senator Rand Paul is correct in his description of the 2013 NDAA. It's the 2012 NDAA (not 2013) that authorizes indefinite detention without charge or trial. There's much more to be done to protect our rights and undo the harm of the 2012 NDAA (which doesn't expire), but thanks to the efforts of United States Senator Mike Lee and Sen. Paul, we are making significant progress in (re-)advancing the principle that all people in the United States have a constitutionally protected right to full due process.

UPDATE 2:

From my Oklahoman friend of Liberty QFish of the Liberty Live Stream Team:

I asked him this question: "Would the Feinstein-Lee amendment that Sen. Paul voted for be sufficient for this 2013 NDAA? I know you had come out against this amendment initially, so was curious what you would say about that?"

Rep. Amash answered with: "Qadoshyah, I believe we need more than the Feinstein amendment. I understand their logic, but I disagree that it is sufficient because I have a different interpretation of the 2012 NDAA. They still made significant progress in advancing the cause and putting some protections in law."

UPDATE 3:

Here's my thought process on this in pictures: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=502351526465633&set=...

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FYI - Check out my website if you're looking for an awesome, inexpensive, and perfect Christmas gift or stocking-stuffer for all Ron Paul Liberty-lovers! I had them made and should be getting them next week according to the manufacturer!

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Good for Rand. He is the best

Good for Rand. He is the best we have in the Senate atm. There are a few others that are very right on some issues; Sanders, Lee, DeMint (until he leaves, but good for him).

"There are a few others that

"There are a few others that are very right on some issues; Sanders, Lee, DeMint"

That's a very odd combination of Senators.

So was

So was this

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/components/slideshows/_pro...

Visionary.

Ventura 2012

Satan 2016!!

Let me hear the minions!! Holla!

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

It's so quiet in here, not even the crickets are chirping.

LOL

Well for now that is.. someone will be along shortly. :)

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Yet the trolls are still burping...

; )

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

My feeling of being uncomfortable with Rand

is due to his proximity to McConnell and McConnell's new campaign manager Jessie Benton. Let's see how this shakes out, I want to see Benton exposed as the Judas he demonstrated himself to be in the last campaign. Rands recent remarks about Naomi Judd running against McConnell were extremely counter productive, he had nothing to gain by shooting off his mouth as he did and plenty to lose.

If not us than who?

And until people understand the McConnell,Rand,Jesse and Trygve

Trygve Olson connection they will never understand how we got played.

The Traitor that sabotaged Ron Pauls 2012 Campaign
His Name Is Trygve Olson And Here Is What He Did
http://www.dailypaul.com/210815/trygve-olson-should-be-fired...

Exposed Here by Justin Raimondo in a brilliant AntiWar.com article.
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/02/02/can-ron-paul-b...

Penny Freeman, former staffer in tears over Ron Paul betrayals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX4DdfSGiFs

Long story short is Trygve Olson wrote the handbook on how to take down governments not friendly to US interest's and worked with the CIA during the Color Revolutions using his work.

Fast forward to 2009. Mitch McConnell sent Trygve Olson into the Rand Paul camp so there would be an adult in the room.

Trygve Olson connection nothing good will come out of any of thie because you will remain nothing more than a pawn in their game. Trygve joins Rand Paul 2010,he gains Rands trust and helps him win Kentucky.Jesse Benton was onboard also.

Rand Paul in 2011 suggest to his father to hire Trygve Olson for his 2012 campaign.

At 2:50 There Is A Bald Headed Guy With Glasses = Trygve Olson
http://youtu.be/44LEvIgZ3xw
that is the one who manipulated Ron Pauls Campaign into ruins and pulled Jesse Bentons strings. He is the Benedict Arnold of our days. He is Jesse Bentons Brain just as Karl Rove was to Bush.

And here we are.

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

Romney 2016

Romney 2016

Ron Paul 2016

haha people took it serious

haha people took it serious bush/obama 2016 establishment police state, the ticket for sheep!

Ron Paul 2016

Old Cliche's

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" or how about, "Time will Tell"

skippy

so where the fuck are the people that bashed rand on this

particular bill? no, don't mention other stuff you disagree with. where are the people that attacked him over this? go fucking hang yourself? so sick of people not being held accountable for their words. you're not that much different from democrats and the gop at this point.

I think we're looking for a

I think we're looking for a new champion....so far Justin Amash seems to be the guy to watch.

Hacks !

They are all around here now. Doing their dirty deeds to divide and fragment. Then there are those that are more interested in trying to prove themselves right than they care about winning elections and advancing our goals for the betterment of the country. They are perfectly content with garnering 2% of the vote for the rest of their lives...little Rats ! Somebody needs to open a can of DECON in here ...helps get the Rats out....

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

"They are perfectly content with garnering 2% of the vote"

That's my impression. A lot of people here seem to prefer ethical purity to results in reality. I guess that means they'll be able to hold their heads high while living in the socialist $hit-hole formerly known as the United States of America. Well goodie for them...

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

So you'd rather give up on the old fashined notion of

principle and instead, pretend that you're getting somewhere because you have the vote of the masses.. never-mind that the masses are the problem as well and that we have the problems because people have went along for too long.

Yes let's pretend we stand for something while we kneel for anything. That should be your campaign slogan.. it's kinda catchy!

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I didn't hear...

...any strategy for winning elections.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

That's because you have Rands neocon semen in your ears maybe.

Same strategy that's been promoted.. Work within the RNC.. Work Local and State elections.. Push for someone real instead of some neocon piece of shit that's more palatable to you closet neocons.

The main one, for you perhaps, would be to stop kneeling and servicing.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

"someone real instead of some neocon piece of shit"

If you think Rand is a "neocon piece of shit," clearly you'll never find anyone who meets your standard for "real" who has any chance of winning an election.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Yes Gary

We've heard it before.. We cannot do it so we might as well vote for you..

Hohum.. lol

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I guess that's a substitute for thinking...

.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

You would know.. You're turning off that

thinking cap on a daily basis here.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Absolutely...

...dead-nuts on target, yet it is sure to be utterly lost on the sycophants, the minions and the cultists of person.

Sickening to contemplate, yet completely predictible.

"Sickening to contemplate, yet completely predictible."

Very true..

I just hope that those who are supposedly awakened, actually wake up, for real.. I think it might be too much to ask. :)

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Rand haters are useless. 0

Rand haters are useless. 0 help to this movement. All you seem to do is bitch, yet provide no help. Apathy at its finest. Rand is willing to dirty his hands and play the game to win to save your self-righteos, puritanical butts from the Orwelleon nightmare that is coming. Those of us who fought to take OUR government back from the wolves will offer no thanks to the crybabies content to condemn our children to global tyranny in order to protect their precious honor. Rights are taken on the battlefield and you cannot dismantle their power if you don't first take it. So keep on bitching and complaining about everyone who falls short of your impractacle standards, meanwhile we will keep fighting with patriots like Rand to make your standards possible in the future.

Blind followers of Rand Paul are more dangerous

There are a lot of people here attacking anyone who criticizes Rand Paul, even when the criticism is justified. Many people blindly support whatever Rand does and excuse "playing the game" of "getting his hands dirty" as the ends justify the means. The danger is not from people who have a set of standards or morals that they do not waiver from. The most dangerous thing for the liberty movement, in my opinion, is the group of people who don't think independently and critically. It is these blind followers who will allow a large group of the liberty movement to be co-opted into supporting a corrupt system that is the antithesis of liberty.

We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.

-C. S. Lewis

Another...

...spot-on post.

Scathingly accurate, yet destined to be discounted and not grasped at all by the 'Cultists of Rand', aka neuvo-hacks of pseudo-liberty.

All I see is paranoia from

All I see is paranoia from people who seem more interested in canibalising their own than winning. You sensationalize every move anyone makes, quick to cry out traitor. 0 understanding of what will be neccessary to take back your freedom. How effective do you suppose Ghandi would have been if the Brits had been the only gov on earth and their goal had been population control? You can't win this one by opting out, and you sure the hell aren't going to win it with guns. Haven't you heard? Never bring a gun to a nuke fight. Politics is our most likely road to victory, and your 2% strategy isn't going to cut it. We win by gaining numerical superiority in all political and civil arenas, then dismantling the power from the inside. Fucktards like RP4pres add nothing to our cause save for comic relief. In my experience, the Rand haters will never be able to pull together because everyone is a traitor to these fools. Blind trust is unwise, but hostile paranoia is suicide.

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