80 votes

UPDATE 3: Rand Paul Explains NDAA Vote & Justin Amash Responds

https://www.facebook.com/notes/rand-paul/explanation-of-ndaa...

I have noticed that many are confused by my vote for NDAA. Please allow me to explain.

First, we should be clear about what the bill is. NDAA is the yearly defense authorization bill. It’s primary function is to specify which programs can and can't be funded within the Pentagon and throughout the military. It is not the bill that spends the money—that comes later in an appropriations bill.

Because I think we should spend less, I will offer amendments to cut spending. I will likely vote against the final spending bill. This wasn't it.

This bill also isn’t about indefinite detention. This year's bill did not contain the authorization for indefinite detention.

That provision was in last year's NDAA bill.

The bill this year contained the amendment I supported which sharply limited the detention power, and eliminated it entirely for American citizens in the US. While it is only a partial victory, it was a big victory. Particularly compared to what passed last year. Even so, I will continue to fight to protect anyone who could possibly be indefinitely detained.

I would never vote for any bill, anywhere, that I believed enhanced the government's power to abridge your rights and detain people. This goes against every principle I hold dear and the Constitution I took an oath to uphold and protect.

Government power and the many associated abuses have been piling up for years. We will not win all our liberties back at once. But we did win one battle this year, and we should be pleased that we did while also realizing the fight is really just getting started.

I hope you will keep fighting alongside me.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/rand-paul/explanation-of-ndaa...

UPDATE:

Justin Amash's response via Facebook:

Senator Rand Paul is correct in his description of the 2013 NDAA. It's the 2012 NDAA (not 2013) that authorizes indefinite detention without charge or trial. There's much more to be done to protect our rights and undo the harm of the 2012 NDAA (which doesn't expire), but thanks to the efforts of United States Senator Mike Lee and Sen. Paul, we are making significant progress in (re-)advancing the principle that all people in the United States have a constitutionally protected right to full due process.

UPDATE 2:

From my Oklahoman friend of Liberty QFish of the Liberty Live Stream Team:

I asked him this question: "Would the Feinstein-Lee amendment that Sen. Paul voted for be sufficient for this 2013 NDAA? I know you had come out against this amendment initially, so was curious what you would say about that?"

Rep. Amash answered with: "Qadoshyah, I believe we need more than the Feinstein amendment. I understand their logic, but I disagree that it is sufficient because I have a different interpretation of the 2012 NDAA. They still made significant progress in advancing the cause and putting some protections in law."

UPDATE 3:

Here's my thought process on this in pictures: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=502351526465633&set=...

______

FYI - Check out my website if you're looking for an awesome, inexpensive, and perfect Christmas gift or stocking-stuffer for all Ron Paul Liberty-lovers! I had them made and should be getting them next week according to the manufacturer!

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Rand should allow us to sign up for a "You can't detain me" card

or something like that. There has GOT to be SOME WAY for us to fight back against this tyranny using their own BS regulations AGAINST THEM!

Like many...I thought his explaination was excellent...but, I'm so convinced there is no political solution to our problem that the whole Rand 2016 thing is just not for me. Our votes didn't matter this year...what on earth makes anyone think they will matter in 4 years?

The fact of the matter is...

...there just weren't enough of us. Yes, the media was biased to Ron Paul and that is all the more reason we need to be convincing people of Rand Paul now.

We need to get an early start on 2016: Support Rand PAC 2016

www.randpac2016.com

https://twitter.com/randpac2016

the media were treasonously biased against Ron Paul...

...we should never forget it and make sure that more Americans are aware of the colossal media fraud in the 2012 presidential campaign!

All the networks without exception. Criminal.

This is where fascism begins - so it is already with us planted on our soil.

Ron Paul ... forever.

+ 1

President Rand Paul!

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Nice try but I'll be right there exposing your psychotic nuttery

You think you are going to slide right back in after the utter chaos you caused on this board when we were campaigning for Paul? You attacked Rand with a myriad of little snipes against him and Ron Paul and his supporters in general for months on your idiotic Gary Johnson crusade. Don't think for a second if the winds shift strongly towards Rand that your are going to be a bandleader here for him. Go away and glom onto your 1% loser somewhere else you crass hypocrite. I'll let your words speak for themselves now.
LOL
Submitted by legalizeliberty on Fri, 10/19/2012 - 06:56. Permalink

Why is Jesse Benton not out there helping out?

Rand Paul/Jesse Benton 2016
(sarcasm)

http://www.dailypaul.com/261969/the-door-is-open-for-rand-pa...
-6
Vote down!
Rand is Mr. zero
Submitted by legalizeliberty on Tue, 11/06/2012 - 20:30. Permalink

Rand is finished.

http://www.dailypaul.com/261046/together-will-restore-the-bl...

-3
Vote down!
I do not demonize anti-GJ folks who are pure in their views
Submitted by legalizeliberty on Wed, 10/31/2012 - 14:14. Permalink

--like your are.

I fight back defending my point of view against mostly Romney operatives on this website.

Ron Paul said many times great things about GJ.

Was Ron Paul stupid to seek Gary Johnson endorsement in the spring of 2007?

Now I ask you to explain this.

Why did Ron Paul seek out this endorsement from him?

I will tell you why.

Because Gary Johnson in the spring of 2007 was a well known respected freedom loving political figure and Dr. Ron Paul only raised pinuts for his presidential run(at that time).

Go and lick Rand's boots.

I am for GJ who openly says 'kill the drones'!

http://www.dailypaul.com/261046/together-will-restore-the-bl...
-4
Vote down!
she has that choice...and so do you!
Submitted by legalizeliberty on Wed, 10/31/2012 - 15:34. Permalink

Because Gary Johnson in the spring of 2007 was a well known respected freedom loving political figure and Dr. Ron Paul only raised pinuts for his presidential run(at that time).

Go and lick Rand's boots.

I am for GJ who openly says 'kill the drones'!

http://www.dailypaul.com/256705/video-romney-surrogate-rand-...
-1
Vote down!
'Bomb Iran' Romney coming in 3rd place
Submitted by legalizeliberty on Fri, 09/28/2012 - 10:10. Permalink

Will be a huge victory for the LM Liberty Movement.

Gary Johnson 2012 & 2016.
#Rand2016Fail

Calls Ron Paul A Cult Leader
http://www.dailypaul.com/261219/ron-paul-write-in-is-not-jus...

-9
Vote down!
ecorob
Submitted by legalizeliberty on Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:07. Permalink

you represent the anti-liberty "rp-cult"
I have a question for you:

since your cult leader can't win why do you fight against someone who wants to cut the Pentagon by 43% as prez?

You are not We The People LL you are more like a foreign agent up to no good as usual.Stay out of our politics you are not wanted or needed here.~Pollman

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

Mr. DHS?

Are you keeping a file on me?

Big Brother.
There were millions of folks who got upset with Rand over his endorsement of Romney when Ron Paul's campaign was still going strong drawing 5-8,000 folks to his events.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

I'm glad to see we're on the same side of this argument...

.

We need to get an early start on 2016: Support Rand PAC 2016

www.randpac2016.com

https://twitter.com/randpac2016

It's remarkable that a US Senator would give people like us the

requisite respect to issue an explanation like this.

Tip of the hat.

Yes, it is very good.

However, it should be expected. They work for us, not the other way around.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I also wrote in RON PAUL...

...are there any numerical data on the write ins in the 2012 Election?

Ron Paul ... forever.

There is some.

I have looked some up out of curiosity, but did not compile a list with numbers. Some states did not count write-ins at all, but I am sure that the ptb know what those numbers are; it is in their best interest to know who opposes them and why.

We made a difference, and continue to do so, Key Largo. It is very evident :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Winning.

The children complain and say things like, "Ron wouldn't have voted for it!"

Meanwhile, the adults nod and say, "Liberty is headed for the White House."

If YOU don't support Rand because because YOU prefer Ron's approach, then YOU are a selfish obstacle to the success of the Liberty Movement. If YOU think Rand should cast protest votes that won't accomplish anything but eliminate him from contention for the presidency and make YOU feel all warm and fuzzy inside, then YOU need to get out of the way. This isn't about YOU.

Well Said

I don't know if these Rand bashers are on a mission here or if they are just arrogant "know it alls" who are living in a dreamworld.

We are in another war for our Independence.

No, apparently it is about unprincipled opportunists such as....

Rand Paul and his apologists, such as yourself. Tell you what, do not save me a bunk in the FEMA camp; that is, if Barry does not get you first with his killer drones.

Hey Bob! Two questions...

Do you believe the "divide and conquer" strategy is a major tool used against opposition groups by those who want to remain in power?

Would you ever betray your father's (and mother's) life work?

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

Wrong.

First, I want to thank Rand for his efforts. I understand his position better, but there are still loop holes in his argument. Nevertheless, he is fighting a good fight.

"This isn't about YOU."

Yes. It is. In fact, it is about each and every one of us. Warm and fuzzy has nothing to do with it. To call us childish is simply childish, and naive.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Um...

Yeah...

It can't be about everyone if it's just about you. I'm just referring to the people who react by saying, "I would have preferred if he didn't endorse Romney." If they said instead, "I think Ron's approach would be better for Liberty in the end," that would not be childish or selfish. It would just be wrong, forgetting that Ron and Rand are trying to do two VERY different things. One is a messenger spreading a message, the other is trying to get elected president. Because that is what would be best in the end for Liberty: getting Rand elected president.

***

I agree with what you are getting at. The analogies, not so much.

As for Rand being the best in the end for Liberty by getting elected president, at this time and place I hold reservations with that. I will vote my conscience, based upon voting records of all who are running. I will also reserve the right to write-in, just as I have done this election.

I am not writing Rand off. But I am not supporting him at this present time. He has much to prove, and amend.

Stay strong, and don't compromise Liberty, Freedom, just for the sake of winning. That is what got us into this mess the past hundred years.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Vote based on voting records

Vote based on voting records but please try to understand why the vote. Example: the 2013 NDAA of which Rand voted for. Some believe he is a traitor for voting this while others believe he is inching our way to Liberty. Why would he not vote on something that at least gives us an inch? There is a reason and he has a strategy.

Wow, I like this answer a lot

Thanks Rand!

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

And regarding the Romney endorsement...

...as painful as it is, you must rewatch the actual endorsement video from the Hannity show.

http://youtu.be/3c5odNzKVbk

I'm going to paraphrase for you:

Hannity: Why do you support Gov. Romney?
Rand: We have a lot of similarities:

His father ran unsuccessfully for president like mine.
Gov. Romney then went on to support the nominee as did his dad.
We both come from big loving families.
I come from a family of 5 and Romney has 5 kids.
He's had a long and happy marriage. So have my parents.
We have similar love for our families and family values.

It's a BS endorsement! Please reconsider! Now it appears he does actually say in public that he believes sanctions on Iran were the right way to go, which I find more troubling than the endorsement.

I like them all for 2016! Rand, Amash, The Judge, and a few others. Imagine all them on stage debating eachother!

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

yes this part of Romney "endorsement" by Rand

...should become a classic on the COMEDY CENTRAL. When I first listened to it I understood whatever followed. Made it so much lighter.

Ron Paul ... forever.

The difference between the

The difference between the rand bashing trolls and conscientious observers is exactly what you pointes out. I'm upset over the sanctions issue first and foremost. On the other side you have closet neocons and bigots defending an indefensible position on sanctions rather than admitting what's wrong is wrong.

Ventura 2012

.

please place your nose back up hillarys a$$, apparently it has slid out

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

not calling the trolls out and jumping in the parade certainly

doesn't help you distinguish

Yeah...the sanctions bother me a lot...

I cringed a little when watching this: http://www.dailypaul.com/216460/sen-rand-paul-explain-his-vo...

But, I'm not going to crucify the guy and throw out all his positives over one thing (though foreign policy is a HUGE issue for me).

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

It should be obvious we're not going to blindly support...

...anyone, but I think we're clearly victims of a divide and conquer strategy. Yes, let's watch Rand and hold him accountable, but gees...let's not eat our own and kill ourselves in the process!

How many of you would ever betray your father's life work?!

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com