-4 votes

What do those that don't like Rand Paul suggest happen?

There has been a lot of commenting and posting on Rand Paul as of late, and many people seem to be diametrically opposed to their opinions on Rand. Some see him as a "strategist" for pandering to the neo-con crowd, and hope that he comes to his senses when given more political power. It's working, as seen in the recent "favoriteability" ratings being positive among neo-cons and the older crowd Hannity-watching neo-con crowd. It's working, at least from the point of view that more people like him than his father.

The problem with this is that Rand is compromising the one thing that Ron Paul's people begged for. That of course, is the foreign policy.

Those that don't like Rand Paul and call him a neo-con (and even if it's disingenuous, it's still an accurate description of his voting record in some regards). He compromises on foreign policy, won't speak of Bilderberg anymore, and is doing many that his supporters voted him to be against.

My question is this, to anyone that doesn't like Rand Paul and are disgusted at what he's doing:

What do you suggest happen?

If Rand Paul could do something to bring us 'back to his side', what would it be? In your best scenario, what would you like to see happen, if it could?

Would it be to adopt Ron Paul's foreign policy? Would it be "be exactly like his dad's voting record?" And it it was, how would you suggest we bring the message of Liberty to the older crowd, who will eventually become older people on medicare, who will never vote to take it away?

Should we abandon even trying to influence the 35 year and older crowd?

I'm curious---I am still thinking about the whole situation, so I have not opinion yet. I'm curious to hear yours.

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We first scrutinized Rand Who? as part of RetakeCongress.com

He didn't meet our standards for anti-war, and illegal detentions. We found out right away that he really wasn't very much like his old man in the early phases of his race for Senate.

Of course we all had high hopes, knowing the principles that his father taught and lived. We were looking for another Ron Paul.

Indeed Rand showed a few shining moments when one would stop and say, well, that's really not so bad. But the truth about the little curly-haired pipsqueak would slowly come out, as again and again he showed us that he really is no Libertarian, but rather just another Neoconservative, and a fairly arrogant one at that.

It isn't an easy thing. We would all prefer that Rand Who? was a Libertarian scholar after the order of Tom Woods, or at least a principled something or other.

But this dude spit on all of us and the old man too when he endorsed Romney. Strategy my foot.

I say, F Rand Who?. As in FORGET him. He ain't one of us.

You say he's better than Lindsey Graham? In What way?
At least you know what Lindsey is. All you know about Rand
for sure is "what he ain't".

He sure ain't no Ron Paul.

And he IS like one of those reeds that if you lean on it,
it will break off and stick in your hand.

I've met Rand Paul

It's apparent that you have not. Rand's tactics are different, but not his principles. Speak about that which you understand. Rand is no neocon.

Actions tell it all.

I aint the only one who has him figgered out.

You don't have him figured

You don't have him figured out.

To "Hope" he'll "Change" will not work

No one really knows if he holds our best interests at heart????

A lot of people "Hope" that he will "Change" if he gains more power. They hope that he is just compromising to get to that point but how do they know??? They don't and I don't.

If he's willing to compromise our liberty (NDAA)or if he looks at one or more of our soldiers lives (his foreign policy) as nothing more then collateral damage just to gain power then I have absolutely no use for him.

We need to focus more on replacing our Congress instead of the next President. Our Congress men/women enjoy being the men/women behind the curtain. They write the laws and blame the President for signing them. They can shut down the President with the snap of their fingers if they really want to.

To me trying to change

To me trying to change foreign policy with the current "conservative" mindset is a distraction and a hopeless cause...you will never make any headway there...Rand realizes that. We need to attack the cornerstone....which is the FED, knock out the FED and the foreign policy and domestic spending issues are forced back to sanity. Take away the credit card and the government is forced to live within its means. The FED is the one thing you can get almost all republicans and other conservatives to agree on...at least if they truly understand it.(except of course those like my senators Corker and Alexander who are feeding at the trough...but I am talking every day republican voters)

What do We expect? CONSTITUTIONAL Leadership.

It's not brain science.

1) Promote Freedom
2) Promote Independence
3) Promote Charity

and above all

FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION!

I don't want someone aiming for a lot of power, then trying to get the job done in a top-down fashion - even if they have THE BEST INTENTIONS.

True leaders, like Ron Paul, understand that nothing works that way. The way to change people's minds, to bring them onboard, is to LEAD BY EXAMPLE, and by virtue of INFLUENCE, you win people over. Slowly, but surely - just as it has been for Ron Paul.

It could have been bigger for him, but the guy isn't a speaker. He's not a shmoozer. He's not really a politician - and that's what endeared him to so many. It was obvious that he was cut from a different cloth.

BUT - you CAN have a Shmoozer and an Idealist in the same person.
Ben Franklin.

His occupation was shmoozing, and his message was Freedom.

This is what Judge Napolitano is talking about when he says: I hope Ron Paul was our Bernie Goldwater, and somewhere, a Ronald Regan is making his way through the crowds, honing his skills before he steps into the Public Eye and just owns it.

I'm ready to get behind the Judge, Jesse Ventura, or anyone who can articulate and live by The Message.

I'm over 35... so I guess my opinion doesn't matter

Holy Romney 46% don't matter, Batman.

Simple

Recognize the political process is a charade meant to keep you enslaved and choose to stop participating in it, stop voting and stop giving it any credibility what so ever.

Then do your best to educate and spread the ideas of liberty.

Pericles said it best:

"Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you." Pretending that the government has no money and no guns does not actually make them harmless. It's time the lambs started voting on what to have for lunch!

Andrew Napolitano for President 2016!
http://andrewnapolitano.com/index

"Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping Graven images." - ironman77

Hold him to the same standard we hold Ron.

We support Ron because he doesn't compromise, why don't we just hold Rand to the same standards?

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

"why don't we just hold Rand to the same standards?"

Because we want Rand to have all the political successes that Ron didn't.

People often say we shouldn't judge Ron and Rand by the same standard, because they're not the same person. Well, I actually think they are nearly the same person, but they are engaged in fundamentally different tasks. Ron was trying to educate people, Rand is trying to obtain political power. Purity worked for Ron in his task, it will not work for Rand in his. Being Dr. No gets you a small and fiercely loyal following, it does not get you political power.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

You Are Making Excuses

He's either hot or cold. No middle ground when it comes to what is right or wrong. That's my opinion anyway. Ron never gave ground. Never sold out, never played the game. He was just RON. If he had played games he would just be known as another politician. Instead, he is a LEGEND and the father of a MOVEMENT! Is Rand going to be a legend or a sell out politician? I would prefer that he be HONEST! Maybe I am a fool for thinking this way. BUT I am an HONEST fool! Why can't Rand be?

skippy

honesty and politicians?

i'd say in most cases the two are miles apart. there are rare exceptions, but i'm sorry to say rand is not one of them.
http://www.dailypaul.com/267615/is-rand-for-us-or-not#commen...
he knew damn well this was a step to nowhere, but he also knows people can be fooled.

Political Power??

To serve what end? The senate already has John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell. Why the hell does it need another Republican neocon from Kentucky? They are everywhere in the Big House. When someone thirsts for political power, they will sacrifice anything to get it. Aren't you wise enough to see the fix is in already?

From Skippy to Skipper

WELL SAID!

skippy

The only use for political action...

is as a platform to educate the public, beyond that it will never amount to anything.

200+ years of an ever expanding Federal Government are all the proof you need that the political process cannot reverse the growth of the State.

Ron knows this, Rand doesn't.

"Rand is trying to obtain political power."

I don't see this ending well.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

How do you expect to reduce the power of the State...

...without political action?

The purpose of education, of the sort to which Ron devoted his career, is ultimately more votes for libertarian politicians, who can get elected and change the laws. Otherwise, what's the point? Education does not in itself cause the power of the State to shrink.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Individual Secession

Make the State irrelevant, withdraw your consent from it, the only thing propping it up is the willingness of many to consent to it.

The point of educating, is so that someday we will have enough people to effectively throw off its chains and declare our independence from it as individuals.

How did the colonists end the British crown's rule over them? They seceded.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

"withdraw your consent"

In other words, civil disobedience. But here's my question: if you think it's impossible to convince people to write the name of a libertarian on a ballot every couple years, what makes you think you can convince people to engage in civil disobedience and risk prison for the libertarian cause? ...The political route is far easier.

"How did the colonists end the British crown's rule over them? They seceded."

They fought a war, they did not simply withdraw their consent.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

We can win if we focus on principles and winning people over.

If we had a large enough amount of people in America and the world united behind our shared principles,and demanded strict adherence to said principles over politics or parties,then the politicians would truly have to represent us or find themselves out of a job and irrelevant.We can make progress every single day if we focus on winning hearts and minds.Here is a suggestion on how to do it:We get one or two great short ads/videos that promote our shared values of truth,freedom,and peace.Maybe have a few quotes of Ron Paul in there.Just picture a short video explaining why we should bring our troops home,have sound money,cut taxes and spending,balance the budget,end the drug war and give power to the individual while promoting truth,freedom,peace,non-aggression and voluntary humanitarian help to our fellow man.Then we have a money bomb only to DIRECTLY purchase airtime for said ad/video.We vote with our dollars on which video is best.Then we have a "time bomb"(lol) where we all donate our time and focus our efforts spreading the video on facebook,twitter,youtube etc.Keeping it front page on the DP would surely help.Then we fine tune our efforts to make sure we are winning people over.And as long as we see it is working,we NEVER stop.With the "time bomb" method,we could make our message go viral on the internet,nationwide and worldwide,without asking people for money.With the right videos and a united effort by us,I am convinced this would work.In my opinion,this is how we win.Anyone got a better idea?I'm all ears.

There is no "one thing"

There is no "one thing" that Ron Paul supporters wanted to see from Rand. Granted, I do not doubt that a more peaceful foreign policy would be high on the list for many; maybe most, but that does not change the fact that we are all individuals. Do not make the error of projecting your preferences upon the whole lot. Ron Paul was a real uniter, but also a particularly ineffective legistlator. Rand is taking the tack of *actually affecting policy* and not just standing on principle while educating the population. It is not yet the time to take on the foreign policy. Let Rand make his own decisions about the best stragedy on how to gain ground. While his methods may or may not prove effective, he certainly has more information to make such decisions than a group of libertarians on an Internet forum.

Nullification, 10th

Nullification, 10th amendment. We have done more in 4 years then the gop leadership in 50 plus!

Ron Paul 2016

Become a libertarian and support the next less than 3% Bob Barr.

Or become a Republican and support Rand Paul.

.

or nullify the dumbasses by

or nullify the dumbasses by using nullification ,better then sucking up to these gop A##holes!

Ron Paul 2016

And how do you plan to take control of State governments?

...it's the same problem as with the federal government, there is no realistic way to get our people elected unless we work within one of the two major parties. You don't have to like them, just recognize the facts of the world we live in.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

the first thing Rand would have to do

would be to entirely change who he is

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

jrd3820's picture

I do not think it matters that much...

If Hilary runs in 2016 she will win. Period, end of story. I am not saying I want this to happen, it is just reality. Even if the democrats chose someone else and the republicans stand a chance, they will not nominate Rand. If they do nominate Rand, maybe I would vote for him, but I think the bigger worry should be 2014. I feel like if we can continue getting candidates like Amash in there, whoever wins presidency in 2016 will have less power.

???

The elections are rigged. Doesn't matter, they are FAKE, nothing but distracting meaningless rituals.

jrd3820's picture

So, then you agree?

It does not matter if Rand runs?