-4 votes

What do those that don't like Rand Paul suggest happen?

There has been a lot of commenting and posting on Rand Paul as of late, and many people seem to be diametrically opposed to their opinions on Rand. Some see him as a "strategist" for pandering to the neo-con crowd, and hope that he comes to his senses when given more political power. It's working, as seen in the recent "favoriteability" ratings being positive among neo-cons and the older crowd Hannity-watching neo-con crowd. It's working, at least from the point of view that more people like him than his father.

The problem with this is that Rand is compromising the one thing that Ron Paul's people begged for. That of course, is the foreign policy.

Those that don't like Rand Paul and call him a neo-con (and even if it's disingenuous, it's still an accurate description of his voting record in some regards). He compromises on foreign policy, won't speak of Bilderberg anymore, and is doing many that his supporters voted him to be against.

My question is this, to anyone that doesn't like Rand Paul and are disgusted at what he's doing:

What do you suggest happen?

If Rand Paul could do something to bring us 'back to his side', what would it be? In your best scenario, what would you like to see happen, if it could?

Would it be to adopt Ron Paul's foreign policy? Would it be "be exactly like his dad's voting record?" And it it was, how would you suggest we bring the message of Liberty to the older crowd, who will eventually become older people on medicare, who will never vote to take it away?

Should we abandon even trying to influence the 35 year and older crowd?

I'm curious---I am still thinking about the whole situation, so I have not opinion yet. I'm curious to hear yours.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Agree with what?

The elections are FAKE, the winners pre-selected, votes flipped or thrown out to give an illusion of participation. This was proven with the latestr charade. So what's the point?

jrd3820's picture

Yeah, I guess that...

I said that it did not matter if Rand runs, you said elections were rigged, so then I asked if you agree then... If elections are rigged it does not matter if Rand runs. That was what I was trying to get at.

He should follow your lead, Plethora

"I am still thinking about the whole situation, so I have not opinion yet. I'm curious to hear yours"

He should sit down and shut up for a few years. Does he really believe that his Dad's honesty, integrity, stamina, and courage are hereditary traits? If he does he should not insult us with his genetic fantasies, he should just vote in a manner that provides proof to this anomaly. He hasn't. He can't. He should shut his big fat obnoxious trap and just go away. I would respect him as I do Jim Demint or Dennis Kucinich but at least they are not playing the liberty movement and Ron Paul like a fiddle. I can't. I won't. Go away Rand. Leave the magical thinking libertarians alone. They have enough to contend with.

There is a sizeable minority of Paulites...

...who are simply not interested in political success, and are happy to vote for 1-2% candidates for the rest of their lives. These people and the rest of us have a shared past, in having supported Ron Paul, but we do not have a shared future. They'll return to the political backwaters, we'll make history.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

I'm afraid Rand can never be the 'best' man for the job...

for the Liberty Movement. He can now only be the lesser of some number of evils. That doesn't mean he can't win, given the stable of neo-cons that are available.

I think Rand is counting on us voting for him just because the other choices will leave a vomit taste in our mouths otherwise.

I am Really Getting Tired

of hearing people that are so desperate for an idol making excuses for Rand and pushing Rand on us and hoping Rand will morph into Ron and going on and on about Rand being our savior. HE'S NOT RON! GET OVER IT! I was floored when I saw him proudly announce his endorsement for Romney AND ON HANNITY and WHILE Ron was on stage in Texas giving an awesome speech. I had to work through the immense amount of actual grief it caused me. I tried to justify it because I had so much hope in him. I am over it. I have moved on. Only time will tell if Rand is one of the rats. So far I am not seeing much sign that he's not. The mere fact that people keep having to defend him pretty much says it all. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. You might as well start defending Benton while you are at it. I once had faith in him too.

skippy

Agreed

These desperate and demanding rants that Rand is some kind of great "hope" for 2016 ignore the reality of what he has already proven...that political expediency mean more to him than his OWN family and FATHER.
If he'd screw over Ron you think he gives a crap about any of us? These ranters are for the most part Neocon plants trying to turn Ron Paul support into support for the much more manageable and statist Rand. It's an attempt to hijack the liberty movement by the Neocons (Israelis). It worked with the Ron Paul inspired "Tea Party" and they were able to infiltrate and tank Dr Pauls own campaign. This site is obviously loaded with these change agents posing as libertarians.

You asked so here it goes...

What I suggest is that Rand fans accept the fact that at this time we no longer agree on a presidential candidate outside of Ron Paul. Absolutely there "has been a lot of commenting and posting on Rand Paul". So much so that it seems this website has become the Daily [Rand] Paul.

I'm tired of the insistent pressuring on-and-on about... "he's our best chance" and "you're ruining it" etc. It's deja vu with Romney supporters to the liberty movement. And worse, this pressuring often coincides with mockery, attacks or questioning of ones character (examples below).

It's obvious this constant badgering is agitating to the movement and I fear if it continues that it will cause permanent damage.

So my suggestion is this... Please stop!

Y'know, the entire fate of humanity realizing liberty does not hinge on Rand Paul becoming president or even the liberty movement as it now stands rallying around him. And if you're now thinking, "I never said that!" than you aren't hearing me well. My point is that we already agree on the message of liberty and there is MUCH we can do to promote it outside of discussing Rand Paul. So why don't we concentrate on that?

If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.

"Y'know, the entire fate of

"Y'know, the entire fate of humanity realizing liberty does not hinge on Rand Paul becoming president"

In my opinion tens of thousands of lives may very will hinge on exactly that.

Ventura 2012

Then we're doomed

if that Neocon traitor is our only chance. If TPTB ALLOW Rand to be voted for, that means he is status quo. The better question is why does anyone still have any faith in rigged elections?

So...

Your position is that the PTB will never allow anyone to win unless he's their tool? From this it follows that a genuine liberty candidate can never win, and it implies that anyone who appears to have any real chance of winning elections (like Rand) must be a tool of the PTB...

This attitude is poison. You are telling everyone that the cause is hopeless, and that they should reject any liberty candidate who might actually have a chance at winning. I wonder if you're an idiot or a troll tasked with demoralization?

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

If there is overwhelming

If there is overwhelming popular support then they cant rig it. I don't think he has gone 100% neocon yet.

If we start from a position of "the end is near" then nothing good can happen.

Ventura 2012

lol....

He hasn't even gone 5% neocon. Rand doesn't subscribe to neocon political philosophy, and it's amazing how so many people here throw it around at people who may differ on a couple ideas of how to accomplish things. It's rather sad.

Because we are busy replacing

Because we are busy replacing the people who "rig" elections.

Most election fraud happens at the PCO level by "well-intentioned" neocons who think they are saving their country from dangerous Ron Paul supporters. We are taking over PCO positions all accross the country.

.

.

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

So that's what you are!!

A well-intentioned neocon lol Gotta get those diehard Ron Paul supporters out of the way!! That's the plan is it?

Aint gonna work. :)

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Romney was taken down by the

Romney was taken down by the liberty vote. That 8%-15% + of the GOP's voting block that represents the libertarian leaning voter. Just over 400,000 votes in 4 key swing states.

Here's what I know. Rand will have my support because his voting record is by far the best in the Senate (unless something changes). He is not his father, but then, im not depending on him to fix everything. I do expect him to bring the troops home however. I intend to send a whole flock of Ron Paul congressmen and senators from my state to help. I intend to fix my own local gov with those people who are working with me.

Rand will also have the support of the Neocons who now understand (at least where im at, and where you are too if you're doing your job) that no "R" will ever win another election without the support of the liberty voters. This, combined with the fact that Rand has set himself up as someone they can support with a few contraversial votes (That had 0 impact on anything) that helped sell him to our enemies. Whenever his votes have mattered, he's come out on the side of liberty. He will not be a saint like his father, but he will be in a position to win an election.

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. George Washington had an aweful temper. Harding drank like a fish. No one is perfect. Ron Paul is the messenger who was able to wake up a nation. Now we need to use strategies that will work to take the power back so we can dismantle it.

We don't have 30 years for another saint like Ron Paul to get elected by the masses magically awakening to the freedom message. You want longterm? The masses aren't going to wake up. ever. When things get ugly, they will side with whomever promises them big-macs and monday night football, and you purists will die like all the rest of the "terrorists." And im sorry, but no matter how many AR-15's you have, you're not going to outgun a UN drone missle while you're asleep with your family at night. These are the days of Orwell, and a bloody revolution is probably our least likley chance to win back our freedom.

We'll be lucky to have 4 years if we don't seriously start throwing some wrenches into the machine. Love him or hate him, Rand Paul has placed himself into a postion of electablity. He'll have much of the neocon support. He'll have much of the liberty movement's support. The question you need to ask is if he'll have yours, or if you're going to remain content with your 2% of the vote, waiting for Jesus Christ to run for president while the country burns.

Spoken like

A true Republican.

"Hell is empty, and all the devils are here" (Shakespeare)
RP 2012~ Intellectual Revolution.

Those that don't like Rand Paul are kind of like

your old lady neighbor's yapping chihuahua. Just like the annoying, but, loud chihuahua, these (L)ibertarians will NEVER be happy with Rand because Rand is not a libertarian. After watching all third party candidates combined get less than 2% of the vote, these (L)ibertarian Rand-bashing dreamers are the same folks that keep claiming we need to recruit third-party candidates to run against "the system." Frankly, you're not going to be able get any reasonable response to your question from these third-party pushers. The best thing Rand can do for America and the cause of liberty is continue to ignore these Internet extremists.

This is a

This is a mischaricterization, because Rand has made a few big boo-boos. Everyone should be tentative on this, at a minimum. And I am a supporter but I am not a blind one.

Ventura 2012

Why did this post not get

Why did this post not get flooded with negativity, like my post about Rand did? I think it's up to us to put more pressure on Rand when he veers off track. We should all be calling his office, sending him mail, and maybe even starting petitions. We just need to let him know that if he remains too comfy with the neocons, we don't have his back.

"I will not submit to authority of man. I'm alive, I'm awake, this is more than I can take." -Jordan Page

Iran Sanctions

I'm not very comfortable with the way Rand "plays politics" but it's not a deal breaker for me. Iran sanctions IS a deal breaker. I might have been in denial after the first time Sen. Paul voted in support of sanctions against Iran. I had hoped, perhaps naively, that he had recognized that his vote was a mistake. I actually thought I read somewhere that he voted "no" the second time sanctions came up in the Senate. To my disappointment, he recently voted in favor of tightening those sanctions.

I want Rand Paul to specifically address his fathers arguments that sanctions are an act of war. I want him to address whether sanctions make war with Iran more or less likely. I want to know if he agrees with the President & GOP leadership that an aggressive attack on Iran is acceptable to prevent them from getting the bomb. I want more specifics on his foreign policy views. But ultimately, his voting record will tell (is telling) the tale.

Shafting his own dad

was the deal breaker for me. If he'd do that to his own dad, Ron Paul!, what would he do to total strangers?

Rand has discussed the

Rand has discussed the sanctions issue a couple of different times, but I agree that he should go more in depth on both the sanctions issue and his overall foreign policy views.

http://www.dailypaul.com/216460/sen-rand-paul-explain-his-vo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT_8TEhSNlU- 4:14 mark

He explains his foreign

He explains his foreign policy quite well in his first book, The Tea Party goes to Washington. He's definitely with us on everything but sanctions.

Support Rand, Amash & other liberty candidates? Check out: http://www.LibertyConservatives.com/

To his

To his credit:

http://digitaljournal.com/article/333417

This really is limited to a "sanctions" issue.

Funny thought because the neo-cons here should have been ALL OVER Rand for voting 90-1 against this resolution under the same logic they used to defend him voting for sanctions :/

Ventura 2012

I don't think there are any

I don't think there are any "neo-cons" here at these forums. Some of us just don't want to throw Rand under the bus for not voting the right way 100% of the time.

There are some zionists here

There are some zionists here that also love to use divisive neo-con rhetoric, like Liberty_first, donvino and .1776whatever. Ex: http://www.dailypaul.com/264913#comment-2851850

Ventura 2012

Well, I actually support

Well, I actually support Israel on a personal level, even though I oppose foreign aid and generally support a non interventionist foreign policy.

While not a necessary

While not a necessary precondition for war, the Neo-cons and AIPAC/Likudniks's unholy alliance has put half the country into mind slavery and are directly responsible for why Ron Paul is not President. Israel is neither here nor there IMO. I don't really understand why someone would have a strong opinion about them unless it was out of hatred for their enemies.

Ventura 2012