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GMO vs. Liberty: Even Those in the Liberty Movement Demand Socialism

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The "free market" thing is a

The "free market" thing is a bit of a deception. This is why:

It is not unusual to think that in a free market, consumers will get suspicious of producers and demand regulation from the government level. The demand for government oversight is itself a reaction to producers trying to pull the wool over their customers' eyes.

Personally, I don't think either way works. With no regulation at all, producers will try and trick the consumer with their advertising and "science". With regulation, producers will continue that chicanery while also simply bribing off government.

To fix the issue, you either need a much more intelligent, educated and most of all resilient consumer-force that can't be beaten down, or, you need a much more intelligent, educated, and most of all resilient voter-force that can't be beaten down.

If the former had happened, you'd see a Whole Foods, not a Mcdonalds, on every corner. If the latter had happened, Ron Paul would be president.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Ironic

Why is this becoming an issue. Why is it not libertarian to expect, no demand, corporations label contaminated and toxic food. This means, by deduction, that to be libertarian is to consume food, and give it to your children, in the full knowledge that you may be poisioning yourself and your children. And this is 'libertarian' by "not forcing your opinion on others"..others? meaning the acceptance that corporations are in fact people (others)?. Isn't this somewhat absurd in the extreme.

Why do people insist on attaching labels to themselves. Political labeling is the very thing that keeps the two party illusion in power.
When people wake up and turn to the liberty movement, are they to be restrained by some definition of what being a libertarian is, according to some unwritten quidelines, or some groups perception of how a libertarian should think and act..is it not enough to be a constitutionalist. Would not adhering to the constitution of itself make you a libertarian. A term that in my opinion at least carries too much baggage, in that it conjures up preconceived notions in the minds of those not aware, a concept that is readily utilised by opposing factions and the MSM to proliferate such thinking.

Make no mistake, there's only two factions in play here and now, and that's the status quo and the constitutionalists, and the reality is, if your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem.
Time to pull together and embrace all support regardless of labels. Look what a common loud voice has achieved already in the defence of the 2nd amendment. Forget the labels and the restraints, the definitions and the rules, and stand as one against any form of tyranny.

"Hell is empty, and all the devils are here" (Shakespeare)
RP 2012~ Intellectual Revolution.

Expecting the government to

Expecting the government to take care of the gmo labeling problems is exactly whwt brought us the FDA. I understand the desire to force labeling, but there oughta be more buyer beware in the market. I hate gmos as much as anyone, but going to the government to stop corporate greed is how we got into this position in the first place. Protest all day, but don't expect the government thatwe despise so much to solve this problem. An educated public is the answer. Now if you're talking about private property rights thats a different story. Monsanto should br punished for their pollution damage they cause.

One world, under government, with power and money for the elite

One more Comment

Even Anarchists believe that fraud should be prohibited. If I knew a lot about this subject and was inclined to be "pro-label," I would argue along those lines.

Then the government begins

Then the government begins defining food. They have done a terrible job at defining food in the past, along with medicine, war, the constitution, privacy, private property, people (black people weren't always considered people by the govt), weapons, dangerous drugs, global warming, terrorists, dangers to our national security, liberty ("obedience to the law is liberty"), vegetables (Mrs Obama says pizza is a vegetable), etc etc etc etc. No thank you, government. Stop trying to save me. Personal responsibility 101.

One world, under government, with power and money for the elite

How can capitalism work....

when you dont know what you are buying? Own it. Label it, and prosper or perish in a real market.

What if every fifth can of soup had arsenic? Is it anti-liberty to want to know which soup has arsenic?
Maybe I am missing something here....seems like a common sense free market premise to know what you are buying??? That being said, I like the idea of a private company providing a label....BUT, I bet you run into a world of corruption and crony capitalism trying to pull that off!

Monsanto would shrivel up and die

in a real capitalistic environment! They must keep you blind folded where the GMO's are.

Like, since 2011 all sweet corn sold at walmart is GMO

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

Of course, arsenic has no business in a food can

Whoever's adding that arsenic ought to be prosecuted. Wait, if one could engineer corn to mimic the effects of arsenic, then it wouldn't have to be added to the can! (But we were just trying to get the corn to kill the bugs, we didn't know it would be like arsenic.)(But we were just trying to own and control global staple crops, we didn't know we would destroy our agricultural heritage.)

It is about liberty

GMO corps have special protections from the government including the stamp of "substantially equivalent". Had they been left to compete in the open market this false reassurance from government would have never been applied to these foods.

Private property: GMO foods are a living organizm that do not repect private property rights. I LOSE my ability to grow food free from these unnatural mutations should I be living on a neighboring property.

National security/ general welfare clause. Some of these crops has been bestowed a "kill gene" which keeps the seed from being fertile. This prevents farmers from saving and planting seeds on their own. How long will it be before that "kill gene" infects non gmo crops through cross polination and destroys our food supply. Additionally these crops have have been grown in monoculture meaning one disease or bug could destroy the worldwide supply of a crop in a single season.

If I were to support laws that prevent my neighbor from producing sarin gas in his garage, would I be "anti liberty"?

---"Christianity has not been weighed in the balances and found wanting. It’s being tried, found difficult, and rejected!" - Leonard Ravenhill---

positive proof GMO are killing us

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Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

Let's ask the 22 year old anarchist

Is sarin gas free market? plutonium? heroin? If a group of "end-the-feders" promoted a voter initiative to ban plutonium from the free market, would they be socialist advocates of government force? Who decides where to draw the line? If someone started adding plutonium to the sarin gas, but didn't label it, would you be socialist for advocating forced labeling of the ingredient plutonium? Do people selling pot in Colorado need to label other ingredients, like pcp? Smoking a joint laced with pcp could change your mind about labeling! Anarchist to socialist in a bong hit? [I think it's injudicious to call people socialists for advocating labeling of GMO]

"Do people selling pot in

"Do people selling pot in Colorado need to label other ingredients, like pcp? Smoking a joint laced with pcp could change your mind about labeling!"

Excellent analogy. In this case, you could bring a fraud/products liability suit against the drug dealer. But in the GMO case you cannot, because you can't prove harm when the harm is something that manifests itself in many different types of illnesses that are not unique to GMO causes. Of course, in the asbestos scenario asbestos DOES produce a largely unique type of cancer.

The anarchists argument is exposed as a distinction without a difference. The only way it makes sense is by assuming that a GMO product is different than marijuana laced with PCP, which it is not.

It is because GMO damages are so difficult to prove that we MUST provide new laws to give people recourse. This is how the law works. Laws change with the times when new information is release, laws recognize reality.

Ventura 2012

The free market is not a

The free market is not a suicide pact.

Ventura 2012

A new Monsanto bioweapon???

GMO Wheat, yep, let's hide this in the food supply when the FDA (Monsanto) rubberstamps approval:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI7n_caiTvE

Follow up interview:

http://www.naturalindependent.com/archives/9339/wheat-gm-res...

check out my post on GMO's

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Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

Them is some reasonable

comments. Thanks for posting. Takes a couple times through just to begin to understand. Our technical capacities are outpacing our political and economic systems. Anarchists, convince me how to approach these problems without our teetering legal and political systems.

The reason I hate GMO's is that it is very personal!

I used to run 300 bee hives, that I built up from 25. Since 2005 I noticed something very different with my bees, just out of the blue a healthy vibrant hive reduced to handful of bees and the queen. At first this always happened in the fall but now it happens in summer also.

A farmer across the road from my holding yard came and told me my bees were in his corn completely covering the whole pile. this was the first year I had trouble, lost over a hundred in just two weeks. I didn't make the connection until 2 years later. I didn't know at the time that they incorporated into the corn a pesticide called Clothianidin also known as Poncho. This pesticide coating used on the seeds is so deadly that 1 seed can kill a bird if they eat it. All the bee has to do is fly over the corn field and it can die from the fumes coming off the corn that is growing.

So as you see Monsanto and other fascist companies have destroyed the air my bees need to survive! Now I ask you is this fair? Can a company put out such a vial putrid product it kills all insects and birds that come in contact with it?

But hey I am an old man it is you young people that will be paying the high price, not with money but health and life!

BTW my 300 hives are now 15, and I am giving up beekeeping I can't take the heart break any longer!

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

We are being poisoned. GMO

We are being poisoned. GMO should be illegal based on that alone. I understand why one would argue against labeling based on Liberty but we are trapped in a system where this is our only means to fight. Food Co-Ops are being raided all across the country. We are trying to feed ourselves but they won't let us. What else are we to do?

GMO's are loaded with viruses and bacteria

used to invade the cells with the DNA they want.

Then there is an antibiotic that is a genetic marker!

On top of that their is a nasty pesticide called Clothianidin or poncho.

So when we eat our GMO's we get free viruses, bacteria and antibiotics topped up with a nasty pesticide!

Oh I forgot another called BT or bacillus thuringeinsis, a bacteria that now lives in all of us thanks to Monsanto.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

Self Defense

No one (other than Monsanto perhaps) would support selling unlabeled foods with mashed up nuclear waste, Prozac, Soylent Green and kitty litter. People who are against all labeling and all standards just make their cause look foolish. In our current system of government, I think that States make the best laboratory on how to deal with poisons in food -- whether it is someone adding arsenic to foods or GMO ingredients. Some states may decide to ban certain poisons, some may decide to require labeling of certain poisons and some states may go for the free-for-all, any unlabeled chronic poison in food is the "liberty" approach. Right now some countries ban GMO ingredients, many countries require labeling of GMO ingredients so that people can decide for themselves. Personally, I prefer banning GMOs due to massive contamination of private property (and "banning" by making the polluter liable for damages is sufficient), but until that time I would reluctantly accept adjusting the current labeling requirement to include GMO ingredients as a way for people to protect themselves and their families (should they choose to do so).

A number of States are working on labeling (Washington, Oregon, Vermont, etc.) I think a good place to get recent news in this regarding is the News link on: http://www.gmwatch.org/

Hmm. I wonder why this reply didn't appear after the post I replied to. Hmm.

Right!

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/johyn_foto/special/2...

When Fascism goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for Ron Paul!

Allegory dished up some good food for thought

Why would we look to these schills in power to take care of us or make sure our food is safe? Is it really their job? How good a job are they doing so far?

Love the closing line in the vid -for a second serving of food for thought. The liberty movement needs more deep thinking and less close minded attacks on it.

I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war. Ps 120:7
--
Better to be divided by truth than united in error.
--
The local church(not a building -a people) is the missing link. The time to build is now.

It's a good point

If the people can't trust their government to be competent and honest, yet rely on them for regulatory saftey, they have a problem. They better be awake. Do you think they're awake?

Double Plus Good Point

Think in Newspeak. Consult NS Dictionary V10.

*****

Good points shrader. Let's also not forget to add the protection racket, the gov-corp revolving door, subsidized markets, the illegal squashing of the competition, psuedo science and media thought control.

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm-

What the? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks

It's a long way from where we are

to the kind of government advocated by our hero, and described in the Constitution. I see a labeling requirement as a benign wrench (communist? lol) in the machinery. It would bring sunshine. People would have to ask, what am I eating? No, really, what is this that I'm eating? And it points up all of the corruption you list. Wait, how did this get on grocery store shelves? Clarence Thomas used to work for Monsanto? Donald Rumsfeld? You mean, that war secretary guy?

I hereby declare

that it is my unalienable natural right to be free in deciding whether I want GMO in my food or not, I'm the constituent of the government (not vice versa) and therefore it is the duty of the government to make GMO labeling mandatory for any company which wants to sell any food on the public market. (Period)
For you GMO-"libertarians" I can only add that what you fundamentally don't understand is what the word right means.

GMO are poison

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Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

"whether I want GMO in my food or not"

You must mean that it is your inalienable right to force companies to make their products to your specifications, because you are already free to buy or not buy whatever food products you like.

"on the public market"

The public market....huh?

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

tell me

if I like buy food products not containing GMO, how I do it if the products aren´t labeled?
Obviously, the freedom you declare is not there.
I don't force anybody to make their products to my specifications, but I firmly believe the producers should be forced by law to label products as such if they contain GMOs - for consumers to really have the freedom to decide whether they buy such products or not. Consumers right to informed decision is obviously above producers right to keep the consumers uninformed.
In my opinion the downvotes of my original post and your demagoguery only reveals that Americans are dumber and dumber, thinking there is a freedom where obviously isn't any.

Yes I have the right not to eat GMO's

but Monsanto has put a blind fold over my eyes, and I can't tell which are GMO's! By going to Congress and getting laws that outlaw the free choice of labeling non-GMO's. If GMO's are so good for your Monsanto should be shouting from the roof tops and gladly label their GMO's, free choice mind you. But then under the current laws they could get raided by the FED's for doing so. Does Liberty in your mind endorse such raids on the little farmer because he grows non-GMO's and sells raw milk?

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed