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GMO vs. Liberty: Even Those in the Liberty Movement Demand Socialism

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The Government

won't even let us have co-ops with healthy food. Much less STORES that sell to the public! Remember what happened to Rawesome? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifvp3Fxi7Uo

skippy

There used to be a grocer in my neighborhood

Who operated such a business. I went there every payday to get all my fruits, veggies, bread, and milk. The few things that were GMO were labeled as such but I only saw a few items.

(EDIT: The liberty movement in infancy? Give me a break. Sorry bout that but the liberty movement has been around for centuries. What a load of GMO bologna)

It was incredibly cheap too. Cheaper than even big box stores. She sourced all her goods from non gmo organic farmers, evidently at a good price.

One week she was open. The next week I walked in and it was a "we buy gold" store who sure, I like gold too, but these guys are predatory and don't pay squat, and crime rose in the neighborhood with people yanking off necklaces.

She didn't even say she was going out of business. Her store was full and she had her beaming smile. But the whole store was converted within less than a week. They probably offered a ton more rent. Now I don't go near there. It's a shady business doing deals with shady people who came across gold in a shady way and they pay about 30 cents on the dollar.

It's a shame. I'm still really bummed. I felt really good back then too and my son loved his non GMO organic fruits and veggies. Now he eats a gargantuan GMO non organic carrot and asks what happened to carrots? They taste like crap now. I wouldn't say they taste like crap but they don't taste like nothing other than crunchy. Oh, that's not a taste. Yeah, probably carrot "product".

One major problem I have with this GMO stuff is it tastes bad and a lot of it is fruits and veggies which taste bad too. Which we absolutely need to survive. They don't taste good so people don't eat them. Then even if GMO's were not bad for you, the lack of nutrition is.

It seems like a great way to have a eugenics or early age death program although I doubt that's what it is, I think it's all about profit.

But it's truly heartbreaking when you lose an honest small business (single business) grocer who just charges enough to live from and wants good health for her neighbors; and it's replaced by what is essentially a pawn shop. It's immoral and disgusting.

The problem with enforcement is to figure out who makes who by manufacturer from the grocery store, and contacting the manufacturer to find out if they use GMO or not (or if they are honest), for everything you put in your mouth. For the average person living in an urban environment, that's impossible.

That's why I like Minarchism, and support a very limited government. The people who are forced to grow GMO Monsanto products I feel very sorry for.

We don't have corner butchers and grocers here in the Silicon Valley any more.

Even in a functioning

Even in a functioning anarchy, a private arbitrator would have to decide whether not labeling GMO is fraud. This is a decision that must be made APART from the issue of government force or no force. That is totally beside the point and a strawman. I guess that arbitrator is a socialist and violating NAP LOL.

Ventura 2012

NAP applies to this as well.

I'm sure Rothbard would agree.

Yes, an anarchist would be

Yes, an anarchist might be opposed to any law pushed through any government mechanism whatsoever including a popular vote. An anarchist would NOT, however, be opposed to a private arbitrator ruling that a business must label its product where the product might cause damage to the consumer without the consumer's knowledge of the products contents. If the arbitrator was applying common-law, then the arbitrator's decision SHOULD mirror the common-principles of the people which in turn would mirror a popular vote.

So its a distinction of form and not substance that isn't really the point of the debate. The anarchist who made the video chose to make it about form.

Ventura 2012

Garan's picture

Ideals vs Actual Context

Changing the government and laws to eliminate or counter-act existing atrocities is a current necessity.

An ideal land of liberty is a goal, not what we currently live in.

Ideally we exercise our liberties and don't prevent others (and companies) from doing their business.

In actuality, Monsanto made at least one franken-plant that is harder to kill than weeds, leeks into neighboring farms (against farmer will and control), and (with government enforced laws) imposes actions against the contaminated neighboring farms.
Mother-nature itself is being changed through cross pollination as well, which is quite an imposition on other peoples plants.

Just to get a bit hyperbolic: Imagine if your neighbor's hobby is to create and release neural toxins at the edge of your property, next to your home. I doubt anyone would support that kind of liberty.

The U.S.A. was conceived with laws to protect individual liberty, not to slowly kill each other with our liberties.

While you were debating philosophy, I got Crohns Disease

Diagnosed about a year ago. Horrible, nasty disease they (Big Medical / Pharma) are too incompetent and corrupt to treat let alone cure.

The latest objective, unbiased scientific research into genetically modified DNA is - that the foreign DNA ingested into the body from these products are not recognized by the immune system as part of the biosphere.

ie. GMO DNA is treated by the human immune sytsem like an alien invader. The immune system does not know what to do with it.

The 'alien DNA' then infects the existing bacteria populations in the gut - genetically modifying the colonies so now the gut is infected by self perpetuating colonies of 'alien' organisms.

Hence the mad statistical upward curve in new cases of Crohns Colitis since 1995. The year the first commercial GMO crops were approved for market.

Here is your takeaway point for today:

Misrepresenting a product or service in the free market - by either commission OR (important) omission - with intent to deceive, is fraud.

So:

Selling an ear of corn as edible corn - when it is scientifically, genetically, and practically NOT edible corn - because it is poison - is fraud

Think this through.

Those of you that claim government has no role in mandating fairplay in the marketplace, so that companies are free to label or not label a product or service however they see fit ... because of some armchair notion of 'freedom' in the free market ..

.. are basically saying its OK for mass food producers to put anything in the box they want to, with no accountability.

And buyer beware. This is 'free market'.

No.

One of the primary and legitimate functions of government - is to set clear rules of fairplay in contracts and commerce. And to give a mechanism for accountability when a product or service has been mis-represented.

In this case - the food supply of the planet.

The free market cannot function without fair representation of a product or service and accountability for fraud.

and

Requiring producers and sellers in the marketplace to clearly label the products and services before sale is a legitimate role for government

You can sit back and arm chair debate why its OK for Monsanto, Dow and etc to own our government and poison the food supply ... while I get to sit here and deal with fking Crohns Colitis and how to get rid of it.

You're better off in that deal. Trust me.

You Should Try

drinking Kombucha and Aloe Vera Juice. They work wonders for intestinal problems etc. Staying away from the gmo poisons is great but hard to do since we all have it shoved down our throats. (Since there is no way to tell if what you buy is gmo or not) but we can do our best to counter the damage with stuff like kombucha and AV and other healthy natural cures!

skippy

Your probably infected with Bacillus thuringiensis,

the GMO corn we eat has this bacteria in it. It is now known that 95% of the population in America has this crap living in their gut! Why do they put BT in corn? When the corm borer attacks the corn stalks it eats the BT that the corn reproduces. This bacteria attacks the worm gut and kills it from the inside. They also coat the seeds with a pesticide called Clothianidin that is very deadly to the Honey bee.

There is also an antibiotic injected into the seed that the corn reproduces so Monsanto can identify their genetic material. This is used to sue farmers out of business while it's harder to get antibiotics for infections. All because Monsanto has put it in our food. Yep we are all eating real Frankenstein food, the Russians believe it killed 2 million of us already!

I am so sorry about your condition, but I think you can cure your self in weeks.

Diatomaceous Earth is a miracle substance that can cure almost every illness you have, and it works especially well against parasites. I am positive this would cure you in no time at all. Don't be too alarmed when I talk of parasites 98% of Americans are infected with some type of parasites and don't know it.

Honey bee propolis is another that can help set your immune system in high gear to help fight off infections every where in the body.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

Gee maybe you should start a

Gee, maybe you should bring a tort suit for common law fraud, that'll help. Just ask the anarchists here, they'll tell you that we dont need any new laws ever and you're a Communist if you think we do. All you have to prove is this:

a representation of an existing fact;

its materiality;

its falsity;

the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;

the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;

the plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;

the plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;

the plaintiff's right to rely upon it;

and

consequent damages suffered by the plaintiff.

LOL.

Oh and you should take it to a private non-binding arbitrator because setting foot inside a Government Court is COMMUNISM http://www.petrograd.biz/stalin/stalin.jpg

Ventura 2012

I'm terribly sorry to hear that Von and I'm with you.

GMO's are in 1000's of food products and all we're asking is that they be labeled. If people still want to buy them, they have every right to be a dumbass.

Recently I've taken to raising my own meat animals.. One just had babies and I went looking for high protein food for her to help with milk production and all around health..

I have yet to find anything but "Calf manna" which is soybean and corn based..

With GMO soybean being produced at yields of 92% of the market and corn being at around 82%.. (if those numbers are correct)

It's almost impossible to find anything that DOESN'T have GMO in it. So here I am trying to get away from poison but finding it almost impossible to do so.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

How about we stop

How about we stop legitimizing any and all government force?

Liberty|Death

What is the solution?

When someone shoots a person in cold blood, do you pass a new gun law?
When someone kills a person in a car crash, do you pass new car safety laws?
I'll be honest, I don't care about this topic, but if I did, the answer wouldn't be that you pass new laws to solve it. If Monsanto is committing fraud, then they should be taken to court over it. But why on earth would anyone think passing a new law, which will affect even those companies not committing fraud, is the answer?
You don't advocate gun control to stop murderers do you? Would you want the government to take away my guns also just because someone else used a gun illegally? Then why use force on me to label my products just because some other company lied about what was in theirs? How hard is this to understand?

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Dr. Mercola

Dr. Mercola made a comment this week "One wonders why the FTC doesn't come down like a ton of bricks on these companies for massively fraudulent marketing" in connection with artificial sweeteners.

I reminded him that, "The moment the government steps between producer and consumer, we consumers lose much of our influence. We do much better dealing directly with the producers. Then, at least, if we want raw milk, we can get it. Giving control to politicians and bureaucrats is counterproductive.

Yes, it would be nice if the EPA banned flouride in water because it damaged the health of animals downstream, but don't hold your breath. Government isn't the answer, it's the problem."

GMO, "Organic," whatever, Congress has no business mandating my diet or my health options.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

I can't believe the insanity of Monsanto's right to secretly

poison everyone in this country and around the world. Every box and can in every grocery store in this company already has a mandatory label of ingredients. Classifying which ingredients have been intentionally tampered with is not a big deal.

Taking back out rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness without having our friends, family and citizens being systematically poisoned is a big deal. So please save your utopian ideals for a time when they might be relevant.

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

Good grief...

I can't believe there is actual debate on Monsanto GMO foods. It would be one thing if people were advocating that these companies be shut down or Monsanto shut down, but there is actual debate over saying that foods absolutely should be labeled GMO due to how dangerous they are to those who consume them?!?!

Maybe everyone saying that government would be using force to make this happen and robbing these companies of their rights and freedoms to sell this poison should be looking at this a bit differently. What about the consumer's rights and freedoms to actually know what the hell they are eating?! I'd be all for it if organizations popped up that had enough recognition to inform a significant portion of the population about what companies/foods are GMO but it hasn't happened yet and it's not looking like it will anytime soon. I'd be all for consumers stepping up and refusing to buy products until the seller found out if it was GMO or not, but that is nowhere near happening. Too many people have no idea about GMO.

Go ask the farmers what has been going on in India concerning GMO. Check into that and many other cases like it, then see if you feel government is denying Monsanto and the companies that sell their tainted foods any rights/freedoms. Still can't believe people find this debatable.

Maybe a case of "Keeping it Liberty/NAP gone wrong"

Silk30

There's no such thing as

There's no such thing as positive liberties

Liberty|Death

Forced Labeling

Forced labeling won't work because any system, program, enterprise, etc., based on FORCE will corrupt progressively. Let the market work. The consumer rules. You can't initiate force to do good.

True but not entirely.

Bioweapons such as Genetically Modified Organisms are an all-consuming and immediate threat to the health and livelihood of species; with a strong focus on humanity.

Therefore, education and market adaptations are too limiting to preserve liberty in the form of protecting individual property rights ie. your body.

I've spent at least 10,000 in the liberty movement and a lifetime as an entrepreneur to know that my better judgement would be to exclusively outlaw GMOs in open food production through Common Law locally and completely through judiciary in every community worldwide.

C4RP

_____________________________________________

Watch this dry yet astonishing Dr. Robert Beck cancer treatment lecture on Google Video - search "Suppressed Medical Discovery" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkiX0jJJozk

Nothing more hypocritical

Nothing more hypocritical than supposed libertarians crying for the government to force companies by force (guns)to label their product GMO. Are these the same people who want to dissolve and attack FDA and EPA type agencies? A lot of these people also happen to be Alex Jones groopies aka Jonestown.

Thank you, man.

It's nice to know someone here actually knows his stuff. I am shocked at the sort policies these "libertarians" support.

Hmmm.

We don't need the EPA or FDA. We do need Common Law judiciaries at a local level to examine property rights infringements of the use of GMOs which contaminate the current and future well-being of our communities.

I am not an AJ groupie either; labels don't work on me.

C4RP

_____________________________________________

Watch this dry yet astonishing Dr. Robert Beck cancer treatment lecture on Google Video - search "Suppressed Medical Discovery" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkiX0jJJozk

finally someone who

finally someone who understands the legal system. And who could possibly be a better judge of what the common law is than the people through a referendum?

Ventura 2012

GMO's remind me of another internet star...

Gmo's remind me of the Kony guy, someone makes a video of how "bad" things are and our principles go out the window. If we are truly liberty believers then we know these companies want to protect their reputation so they would be stupid to put out any harmful foods.

If you think about it GMO's

If you think about it GMO's are labeled. IF they aren't GMO they would be advertised as such.

So, this is the latest troll attack

Monsanto pays well for this

Liberty trumps all else

We should be fighting to make people aware of the dangers of GMO and of the crony-capitalist incest between the Feds and companies like Monsanto. Their hidden agenda must be made evident to all Americans. We should not -if we believe in free markets and liberty- use the law to stop a company from selling a product even if its dangerous (schedule 3 drugs come to mind). But we should use the law to spread information that informs the consumer of what exactly the genetic modifications mean to them and their health. Bringing down central banking worldwide should be our overarching goal. The centralized control of the money power is the root of all evil.. GMOs are just yet another sick offspring of a republic turned fascist.

Gold. Guns. Girls.

Food safety is at issue here.

We can not enforce people to be safe to themselves, but when that lack of safety on oneself puts others safety at risk then that is enforcible. So they have every right to use an unsafe practice, but they can not use it on others.
No freedoms are being removed here just honest information for food consumers.
I think this is an argument by the pro-GMO folks here. Or the people that don't believe GMO food is bad.
Also dont equate GMO with Aztec using selective seeding. Counting beans is not the same as using a calculator app on my iPad.

Deep down everyone is Libertarian.
Live and Let Live, form of government.

Allow companies to label their products as non-GMO

That's currently prohibited. That's what we need to be fighting for. Using the gov't to force companies to label their products is statist and anti-liberty. Ron Paul agrees.

Can you really be that uneducated on the issue?! (To the OP)

I am trying to grow organic just for my family. I can hardly buy non-GMO seed already, even what is available is admittedly contaminated. It is about POLLEN doofus. Monsanto has gotten a right to pollute ALL crops with GMO pollen. NO ONE can have non-GMO in a few years if we don't take SERIOUS action.
I've about had it with non0-farmers. GO TRY TO GROW ORGANIC - when you realize I am PROHIBITED from marking my food "organic" without government decree, maybe you will get your first clue.
Call me political names while I am trying to preserve EDIBLE FOOD for you - Yeah, I'm an evil socialist, I want everyone to eat.
Edit:
I put this in the wrong spot, meant to agree with your reply to the OP.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.