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Tom Woods on what C4L is Doing


My source was a participant at the C4L annual cadre training meeting in Florida last week: John Tate and Mike Rothfeld were featured and at the final full session Tate emphasized, without any real explanation, that C4L was to have nothing to do with foreign policy. It will only deal with domestic issues like audit the fed and will be supporting the Rand Paul agenda. Wead, Hunter, Benton and Tate are all already enlisted in the effort and are on the Rand PAC’s payroll.


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For the record I will never vote again

and I'm still on the fence when it comes to Wead and Rand, BUT, if you have educated yourself about the FED, you should know that the ONLY way our current foregin policy can be sustained is through the money printing powers of The FED. Maybe C4L is trying to strike the root? I have nearly a 100% positive opinion of Tom Woods...so until he says things are not as they should be....I'll keep balancing myself on the fence and see how C4L progresses.

I don't have to struggle with any decison about sending them money...I have nothing but a bottle of ketchup in my fridge, my wife is in the hospital, and the only money I have is my pre-1964 nickles, dimes, and quarters. (I think I will hang on to those)

I've been eating my wife's lunch tray at the hospital this week. :)


How people never learn from experience. I won't vote anymore and I won't send any money to C4L either. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. http://www.dailypaul.com/268388/jesse-benton-i-have-never-be...


Rand PAC will get zero dollars from me

if they are not going to put foreign policy on the front stage.
RandPAC will get zero dollars from me as long as they employ Benton.

I still like Doug Wead though.

Subscribe to his Website

I purchased a subscription to Liberty Classroom a few months ago and have enjoyed the varied courses that are provided. History to 1877 was an engaging course and provides a different perspective on what's taught in most "State Schools". They've also added a course on Logic and promise to add more courses in the future, which is cool.

Being able to personally ask Tom Woods and the Faculty questions about the material and related issues is one of the stand out features of the site.

Hope this inspires someone to buy a subscription and support a strong voice for liberty :)



I've been contemplating joining...

Your post has me convinced. Thanks!

i'm signing up after the holidays are over

That is for sure.

Ron Paul's foreign policy was what brought me in (as a neocon!),

(but then, I prefer truth, and will follow it where it leads) as stated in The Revolution, A Manifesto. I guess I understand the logic in not offending other neo-cons, but still..the way Ron explained it in the Foreign Policy chapter convinced me, and I was pretty die-hard.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

That may be the national C4L.

Do what you want with your own state C4L.

Tom Woods is Amazing

How can he be elevated?

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud


Make/buy/sell t-shirts.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Tom Woods Rocks. C$L sux. Rand is a Neocon.

Benton? Benton?? Benton???


Rand Who? is a Neo-CON. Don't be Fooled.

tasmlab's picture

The surveys were always missing war

The surveys were always missing war, but they did publish (their only?) book on American war history by Bruce Fein on American Empire, which was actually pretty decent, (although the only book I've ever read on the topic - disclosure)

I personally believe war is /has to be the most important liberty issue from an ethical/moral viewpoint. All of the economic crimes against our property and freedom are less evil than actively killing innocent people.

So I give war about, say, half of the importance to why we should dispose of this government.

and I don't get why the majority of citizens don't hate this - at least intellectually if not emotionally.

After all, didn't everyone feel bad when some US children were unjustly murdered? We kill more while singing patriot songs. The terror!

Currently consuming: Morehouse's "Better off free", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football


reading the comments here...whats all the fuss about? Why do folks read so far in to this? Why is Ron this, Why is Rand that? Somethings going on here, Ron may not be who he says he is Yada Yada Yada...How soon people forget that the majority of voters do not agree with us YET on foreign policy.
The fact is you cant change foreign policy until you get people in your corner elected on a national level and in to the oval office. When you make foreign policy your number one agenda it turns voters off! It IS the primary reason Ron lost another election. Is it any wonder why they want to drop it from the playbooks for now ?
They are simply doing what it takes to appeal to a larger voting base and why this is so difficult for some of you folks to see and understand is beside me. Its a SMART move 'for now'. They are gaming to win elections. Some of you go on and on about changing things but have zero interest or understanding for what it takes to win elections in this environment so that you CAN make those changes.
Anyway, i'm not going to hash this out with you folks mostly because i agree with most of your positions on foreign policy but it cant be any clearer,it is right there in black and white, the people are not ready for drastic change in foreign policy... its really that simple! WE are the few and THEY are the many and we have to attract these voters in to win elections! It REALLY is that simple...Get liberty minded people elected and THEN push your foreign policy agenda..They are embracing the things we have in common with the masses and ditching the things that turn people off...SMART move !

RAND PAUL in for the WIN 2016 !....

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams


Educate people so you won't have to lie to them to get elected.


2% down 98% to go.... you have work to do! What are you doing in here preaching to the choir ? Your kids and grand kids are waiting. I'm sure they will be proud of you for taking the scenic route while their futures are being stolen and their jobs are being outsourced.
When seconds count, the purist are just decades away,,,LMAO

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

A Man Who Actually Has Principles...

...does NOT compromise on them or make excuses for those who do.

Just so you know.

When seconds count and standing firm, regardless, counts even more, faux-liberty advocates cave in and fold like a cheap suit...LMAO.

Wonder which 'approach' has directly facilitated this once-republic to devolve into a globalist-collectivist hell? LMAO, again.

You LT

are FOS!.... You do not understand what it takes to win elections and the FACT of the matter is you can sit here and argue this until your blue in the gills for THREE MORE DECADES but until you win elections YOU WILL NOT CHANGE A THING! Now if i'm wrong LT you just show me where your 'approach' has made real policy change in the last three decades?? What did you do in the last three decades besides go from 1% of the vote to 3% ? To say that Rand and Ron do not have principles because of this is a joke. Even principled people realize they have to win elections to make a CHANGE !
Then there is people like you who are just fine saving your feel good 'french fries' while the house and your childrens furniture burn to the ground ...Like i said...When seconds count, The purist are just decades away.. Wonder which 'approach' will directly facilitate another whopping 3% of the vote in 2016 and further devolve this once republic into a globalist-collectivist hell??....Har he Har Har...
your so full of 'yourself' you cant see that BIG wall in front of you called REALITY...

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

In Case You...

...haven't noticed, I could give a rat-fuck about winning elections or anything else that would require a compromise of what I hold sacred.

That, then, is one of the likely large-list of stark differences between you and I.

In addition, if you haven't been able to puzzle it out yet, globalist-collectivist government is NOT going to allow the election process to derail their plans or displace their power, although I applaud your zeal, as misplaced as I believe it to be.

On top of that, this same globalist-collectivist cabal has been utterly successful in dumbing-down the populous to constitutional issues and knowledge, let alone most already not having the underlying principles to begin with.

This adds up to the need to educate, awaken, shock, anger, or whatever else it takes to get you dipshits to pull your heads out of your asses and stand up for something meaningful.

Not gonna happen, but a man has to try while preparing for the inevitable result that you folks will ensure.

In your zeal to try a government-driven fix against an absolutely stacked deck, you seem to have lost the ability to discern certain truths that are staring you in the face. You simply cannot build a structure on top of a pile of steaming, loose shit.

Until and unless people, in large enough numbers, begin to utterly refuse to concede principled ground, all we will end up with in the event of your 'successful elections' is more of the same continuing slide to a hellish certainty of totalitarianism.

It'll just have 'conservative warriors' at the helm or working the engine room or navigating. Same circus, different clowns.

As for me, I will hold right on to my beliefs and keep-on hammering away, illustrating the absurdity of the accepted paradigms, one of them being that of a large segment of the liberty movement (that's where you are)

When those who don't stand on principle, or who don't actually have firmly held principles (if they did, they could not compromise them), get elected or 'become' the new triumphant and victorious junta, then all we will have is a different breed of skunk. That new breed of skunk has already shown that it is willing to do a certain amount of 'whatever it takes' to 'work within the system' and to 'achieve victory' and 'win elections', so the taint is already there and stinkin, right from the get-go.

Nothing is gained except for those who now have 'power'.

The fact that you and those like you cannot grasp this simple basic truth, speaks volumes.

As an aside, I AM rather self-confident and I want to let you know that I appreciate your recognition and highlighting of this positive character trait.

Anything else?


Rant much ? I trust Ron Paul and i trust Rand Paul to move us forward to a better place than we are now. You want to fiddle fart around with whatever the hell it is your spewing about that you think will accomplish something then go head... I'm not trying to stop you !, In fact i encourage it! ... but while your at it 'how great he are' how about trying not to run Rand , Ron and the C4L down in the process because you are content with losing elections and getting nothing done for the rest of your natural life because CLEARLY that's what your doing so try not to drag everybody else down with you during your pie in the sky century long quest to top 3%...Think you can handle that 'how great he are' ?
I'm assuming sense elections don't change anything you weren't involved with trying to get Ron elected ..RIGHT ? Give me a freaking break with your drivel...save it for somebody who doesn't know any better. When did you come to this 'enlightenment' on how things actually are anyway?... After Ron lost ? Like i said, you are FOS....
Ron Paul said take over the Republican Party and that's exactly what we should be doing but instead we have these self proclaimed purist halfwit types (many of which are closet Lefties who want to vote for Jesse Ventura or some ridiculous crap) on here trying to derail the strides we have made in the last 4 years. What can i say guy? Get a freaking grip ...If you cant get behind Ron and Rand then just do America a favor and shut up about it already...

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams


Preaching to the choir? Hardly. If that was true, we wouldn't be having this discussion. No, there is still much that some on DP and RPF need to learn about the values and principles of liberty (don't compromise them for a short-term gain, for one). One step forward is not useful when it requires taking 5 steps back.

I appreciate your concern for the use of my time (I multi-task very well, thank you) and for the opinion my children and grandchildren have of me (no grandchildren yet; my sons know why I do what I do, and are just fine with it, thank you very much).

psnow's picture

Win at all cost?

Ron Paul is changing the World because he is true to his beliefs. He may be the only one left who will not play to 'game the system'. There is no excuse to sacrifice principle for expediency; especially in war and peace. I just have to think he sleeps very well at night knowing he is true to himself. Some things just cannot be compromised.

"I just want to live in a free country" - Dr. Ron Paul

Like i said

you wont change a thing without winning elections and who said anything about sacrifice anyway? My opinions on FP are the same now as they were 6 months ago. Nothing has changed except strategy. Ron Paul has changed a lot of minds but he did not change the world. He might could have had he been elected...Last i checked he is still chairman of C4L . I get emails from him all the time so unless he resigns over this, I beg to differ....You are reading WAY to far in to this...looks do not define the heart...

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

Top comment after story is hilarious

Here it is copied from Miranda Sharma:

"Is Rand Paul a closet libertarian-- willing to reveal himself after he has accumulated enough power? I used to wait with bated breath, but I have subsequently exhaled while keeping my hand on my wallet."

I agree 100%.

What Rand and Jesse know is that our foreign policy is...

What Rand and Jesse know is that our foreign policy is unsustainable.

It has already failed and can not continue... it will either BREAK the federal reserve inflation tax system or the federal reserve will have to cut off the foreign policy spending by 2016 to save the inflation tax system.

This issue has already been won (absent a transition to a new regional currency) but many here don't seem to get it.

Our government is broke. And the policy will naturally collapse and thus Rand is distancing himself from the inevitable failure of Washington to be the policeman of the world.


C4L is positioning themselves to be part of the problem

C4L is positioning themselves to act within the left/right paradigm. The left protects entitlements domestically. The right protect the wars and defense budget. Neither party will actually put a stop to deficit spending. When push comes to shove, both parties will vote to raise the debt ceiling time and time again. Also, both parties will never criticize the influence of AIPAC on our policies overseas.

What C4L is doing is making themselves fit under the traditional right side of the political spectrum. Rand and his cronies will support Iran sanctions, vote pro-Israel policies, not touch the NDAA or defense budget in any serious way. We'll never fix the problem unless we break free of the left/right paradigm.

I tend to agree,

but it still gives me an uneasy feeling that they would try to avoid the foreign policy issue. I have no reason to doubt Tom Woods and I don't think he would post something if he didn't have faith in whoever informed him.

We know that the foreign policy can't go on forever, regardless of what anyone feels about it. But the thing is, people don't know or understand that. Just allowing it to fail is not going to solve the underlying problem, which is an ideological or intellectual one. If Americans don't realize the moral reasons why it's a bad idea, then it's just going to happen again and again, and the cycle will continue. This is why I love Ron Paul (I like Rand, too don't get me wrong), because he communicated the moral, the constitutional, AND economical reasons why our current policies are not desirable. There has to be an intellectual awakening, or all the politics of the matters will be in vain.

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies"

Explain it to us then since you get it..

"And the policy will naturally collapse and thus Rand is distancing himself from the inevitable failure of Washington to be the policeman of the world."

So Rand is dropping talk against Foreign policy because he wants to distance himself from it from the failure of it over it being the policeman of the world?

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

He is avoiding the wrath of brain dead local-scocol NeoCon...

He is avoiding the wrath of brain dead local-scocol NeoCon idiots (aka, brain dead Fox News worshippers who spend their grocery money on DirecTV but have no Internet) who have no concept of the cost of war in either dollars, lives lost or blowback.

This problem is one that needs no comment. It is what it is and now our bankrupt nation is going to have to start making decisions and the problem should more or less begin to fix itself without further outraging these droves of worthless Fox News addicts.

And besides, Rand has made his position known... that he he for reducing offensive military spending all while preserving and promoting national defense.

Nothing more needs to be said, we all agree that military spending must be reigned in and Rand Paul is all for that and has stated this very clearly.

Why are you bashing this strategy... a strategy that calls for reductions?


Bentons involved? Count me

Bentons involved? Count me out seriously wtf

If true it's a blatant political move

Neo cons and mainstream tea party types tend to be low tax, pro gun, small government, property rights, pro life defenders. Just like many in the liberty movement

They also tend to be pro military and pro Israel. Unlike many in the liberty movement.

C4L seems to be making a play for neo con traditional tea party types as it takes foreign policy off the table

Rand gets accepted a little more than Ron with the talk show hosts and establishment republicans because his foreign policy is more hawkish.

This move is similar to that other political move to support Romney

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