10 votes

Why do we not have militia?

Sometimes I hear liberals, neocons and such, make the argument that the 2nd amendment is only for militia in America. And while I disagree with their argument that it's only for that purpose, because the constitution never says that. It clearly was intended to be used for militia as well as hunting and home-defense.

So my question is, why is there no militia in America? What's the history of this and how did this evaporate from our culture?

More importantly, what's to stop me and other gun owners from declaring ourselves a militia here in my home-state of SC?

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If you are between the ages

If you are between the ages of 18 and 45, you ARE the militia.

"The Militia Act of 1903--together with its 1908 amendment--was, in the words of a leading historian of the National Guard, "the most important national legislation in militia history." The act, also known as the Dick Act in honor of Dick, repealed the Militia Act of 1792 and divided the militia into two groups: the Reserve Militia, defined as all able-bodied men between 18 and 45, and the Organized Militia, defined as state units receiving federal support."

http://www.history.army.mil/documents/1901/Root-NG.htm

Blessings )o(

Article On Swiss Militia

The Swiss Militia
by Col. William Flatt

" Mr. Halbrook points out that "Since the origins of the Swiss Confederation in 1291, it has been the duty of every male Swiss citizen to be armed and to serve in the militia. Today, that arm is an 'assault rifle,' which is issued to every Swiss male and which must be kept in the home. During Germany's Third Reich (1933-1945), that arm was a bolt-action repeating rifle, which was highly effective in the hands of Switzerland's many sharpshooters."

http://www.indianamilitia.org/Swiss.html

Try placing a long-distance call to the American military governor of Vietnam, or the Soviet military governor of Afghanistan, to ask them how easy it was to suppress a nation of armed peasants.

beesting

Militia

Definitely read Edwin Vieira. He now has two comprehensive books about the Constitutional Militia.

The militia is mandated by the constitution, much as silver and gold as money is mandated by that oft ignored document. You can't "start your own militia." The militia is an organization of the states.

The fact that the militia was co-opted by the states and replaced by national guard and so forth is a farce. Just think about it. Now the states claim there is an "organized militia" and an "unorganized militia." This is ridiculous. There is only one militia and it is supposed to be a "well regulated militia" as the second amendment proclaims.

Here in Ohio, the Ohio Constitution still contains Article IX which defines the militia as all citizens between the ages of 17 and 67 years of age. Your state constitution may or may not contain something similar.

The founders detested the idea of a standing army. Yet the militia has now been "replaced" by just that. Many people today think the 2nd Amendment is the only one of the Bill of Rights still standing. In truth, it was one of the first destroyed in the early years of the 20th century.

KenM

The people are the militia

The second amendment ensures the citizen militia is recognized in law and can serve as an institutional check on government. This gives the people a say on whether the government has transgressed individual rights. Voting allows 51% of people to initiate force against 49%. Guns let 10% of americans make the government think twice about what laws it chooses to enact.

Correct. However, the Militia Act of 1903 established the...

National Guard and National Guard members get paid.

National Guard are welcome

But the second amendment is there to protect the citizen militia and deter every agent of the state from enacting or enforcing orders that violate protected rights. Rule by law is only possible when laws have plain meaning. If the laws are byzantine and shift in meaning we become ruled by the interpreters of the law. The second amendment ensures the citizens can motivate our government to be vigilent about how it reinterprets the law.

Lost in the reading.

Militias existed prior to the founding of these United States. Militias existed prior to each & every one of the individual states.

The Dick Act, 1903 specifically notes each of the respective states has their own state militia. Each state controls their own militia.

The Dick Act refers to all state militias collectively as the National Guard. The Dick Act sought to gain some control over state militias by offering honey... federal funding. A few million dollars here. A few there.... If, and only if, those partaking in the honey, followed stipulations pro-offered by the federal funders (not to be confused w/ the founders). Any militias that did not partake in federal funding (state, local or private), are free of federal control, per the Dick Act.

Hope this was helpful. Please read the Dick Act for more information.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Many militia members went

Many militia members went under ground after Waco. Remember they tried to pin That disaster on Crazy militia members.

Because...

...when one forms, six out of ten members are from various federal alphabet LEO agencies, trying to bait the few legitimate members into some criminal act or some criminal conspiracy.

jrd3820's picture

Ever heard of the Michigan Militia?

We have the Michigan Militia here in MI, I do not know how active they are as a group, but I know they exist.

Yup

And they even have an alright website set up
http://michiganmilitia.com/index2.htm

Like the

poster below stated, every American is the militia. But there are organized groups by state.

http://modernmilitiamovement.com/

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. ~J. Swift

The people of this country

The people of this country ARE the militia. Most states have an organized group where you can receive civilian organized training outside of the state. Just look em up.

I believe the initial concept was....

..civil defense....in case of natural disaster, or, government over-reach.

Simply put, the majority of the electorate in each community decided to accept a tax, put it into a "common pot of wealth", and buy civil defense...law enforcement and fire protection.

Now they don't care about their neighbors, they don't talk to their neighbors, they only gossip about
their neigjbors based on superficial observations.

While we hoard metals, ammunitions, and food fearing the inevitable; we prepare to harm our neighbor if they threaten our survival because of how they've always voted for establishment candidates; who are protected by the layer of taxpayer funded civil defense they purchased instead of selflessly voluntarily becoming the civil defense themselves against tyrannical government, FOR their neighbors.

Just my thoughts...law enforcement and fire protection in total is just another layer of protection that protects the political elites from the common folk should things go south "in a hurry"....is the White House really "ours"? Same concept.

This happened slowly over time, as prosperity distracted us from our civil responsibility.

State Militita

States, like Massachusetts, can have militia. There remains a recognized State Militia in my town, though inactive. The US does not have a Militia. it is not a state. it has armies.

Lawful militia, I assume, must be state organized, and must be comprised of nationals of the state in which they are organized. US citizens are not nationals of any state in the Union and thus cannot be lawful members of any state militia.

It's just reasoning, but I bet it comes close.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

State militia and citizen

State militia and citizen militia are different things. State militias are an attempt by the government to centralize the militias. Citizen militias are the ones protected by the constitution.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

I don't doubt you. However,

I don't doubt you. However, can you point me to the passage in the constitution that protects Citizen militias, i just don't know where to look? Or are you referring to Amendment 2?

My understanding is that militias are defined and regulated by each state whether "organized" or not, and not by the United States (Fed Gov.)

My point earlier is that one could not be a member of any armed force in a foreign land, or country. Massachusetts is internationally a foreign country to New Hampshire. The United States is foreign to Massachusetts. If you were not a national of Massachusetts, I'd take a good bet that you would be a traitor to your native land if you were part of any military organization there.

My main observation is that US citizens are not nationals of any state. They have pledged their allegiance to the United States and not, say, Massachusetts which is, as a matter of international law, foreign to the United States. Thus, How is any US citizen not in insurrection to the United States if he is a member of a militia, organized or not, in any of the Union states? As I said before the United States has no militias, for it never had any nationals until the 14th Amendment to the constitution.

So who is it exactly that the 2nd Amendment is referring to? Certainly not US citizens for there were none when the amendment was written.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

Some answers and links.

"So my question is, why is there no militia in America? What's the history of this and how did this evaporate from our culture?"

- Walter is right. There is militia. He's very right about families, and the "militia of one" philosophy being prevalent. (see the 2 youtube links below for some good sheepdog philosophy.) The militia movement is very underground, because to go public opens yourself to much federal scrutiny, including undercover feds joining your unit and trying to sell you bomb making materials, and then bust you, and claim with mainstream media's embellishment that they just foiled a major domestic terror plot. Then the Southern Poverty Law Center makes a web page dedicated to you claiming you have neo-nazi connections. If you join or form a unit, do nothing illegal, and kick out anyone advocating criminal or racist behavior. The history of why militias have gone underground is heavily rooted in the incidents known as "Waco", and "Ruby Ridge" (see texasmilitia.info link below.) I won't detail them here, you should do an internet search and read up on them though. Very educational.

"What's to stop me and other gun owners from declaring ourselves a militia here in my home-state of SC?"

- Nothing, for the most part. Under 10 U.S.C. 311 paragraph B all able bodied males age 18 - 45 who are not in the military are members of the unorganized militia. Search here on the DP for threads on the Efficiency of Militia Act of 1902, also called the Dick Act. There was a good thread going a couple weeks ago. Edit: http://www.dailypaul.com/266486/dick-act-of-1902-cant-be-rep.... D.C vs. Heller Supreme Court decision upheld and individuals right to keep and bear arms, and upheld the right to participate in a militia. The biggest obstacle is state law. Check the laws of your state. Read your state constitution. Here in Washington State, militias are banned in our constitution. So then what you do is form an "airsoft team" and practice and train that way in small unit tactics, etc.

Closing thoughts - There are some great resources of information available. What ever you do, be smart, obey the laws in your state, remain low key and only with people you know, vetted, and trust. If someone spouts off stupid or illegal crap, kick 'em out. Here's some links for you.

http://www.awrm.org/
http://www.awrm.org/nms.htm
http://awrm.webs.com/
http://upnn.webs.com/
http://www.civiliandefenseforce.com/
http://www.texasmilitia.info/
http://www.youhavetreadonme.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ4_V2sBsw8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW8BZ7pRt28

Hope this helps. Long Live the Republic!

I like the idea...

I like the idea of everyone that believes in the second amendment and owns firearms declaring themselves a "militia of one". A nice looking certificate on your wall would be a thumb in the eye of all the anti gunners. Anybody open to a small business adventure? I will be your first customer, just print them up and donate a little to the cause of liberty.

RickStone

double post

Double post.

Constitutional Lawyer Edwin Vieira's Writings:

The bedrock of Representative Paul’s campaign—as of his entire career in politics—is his concern for popular, constitutional self-government.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin71.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin72.htm

First of an 8 part series by Dr. Vieira, on the militia:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin16.htm

beesting

Militia

See the Militia Act of 1903 to come up to speed on what happened. Essentially, the Militia systems was 'retired' and replaced with a totally different type of system. In order to get rid of the militia system but not totally toss the 2nd amendment, certain civilians are considered part of the 'unorganized militia'. This unorganized militia is under no obligation to drill or train. Members of the unorganized militia are welcome to drill and train at their local rod and gun club. Rod and gun clubs should become affiliated with the NGO Civilian Marksmanship Program, which was also created as part of the reorg of the military in the early 20th century.

Basically, Americans got to the point where militia duty was a terrible inconvenience to them and they wanted to stop doing it. It was like 'Jury duty with push-ups' for most people. People were always looking for ways to get out of it. When FEDGOV announced that militia were not going to be particularly useful for its overseas imperialistic aims, the people didn't put up much resistance to the retirement of the old system.

Given the hundred+ years of history, we perhaps should re-think this. Imagine if we got rid of juries and jury duty altogether and what that would mean for due process?!? Losing the militia was perhaps worse than this.

Find local people who are interested and have everyone join the local rod and gun club, creating one if it doesn't exist. That is the first lawful step to re-asserting the militia system.

Nothing stops you.

Here you go:
http://lightfootmilitia.com/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/24/us-militias-report...
List of active Patriot Militia Groups
http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/list-of-u-s-militia-groups/

There is also a lot of 'I am a militia of one' attitude out there. If the SHTF, patriots would come out of the woodwork. Believe me, lots of rural families are 'militia units' unto themselves. I even know city families like that. Originally the phrase, 'Don't Mess with Texas' was a PSA slogan about litter, but people down here got serious with the term. All races, religions, and ages talk about going to the range. I hear them everyday. I'm not worried about the American Militia Movement.

why entertain the notion

that your rights may not mean what they say.
absent some "governing body" would you require permission to defend yourself?
of course not.
therefore, you have no rights that can be TAKEN, only rights that can be LOST.

that decision lies solely with you.

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul