What If God Is A Brutal Authoritarian?
Submitted by Robert Timsah on Sat, 12/29/2012 - 20:39If you don't pay your taxes you'll go to jail.
If you don't believe in God you'll go to hell.
But of course, each is "voluntary" and you have the "free will" to object?
HMMMM...
If force against peaceful individuals is wrong, then why would God do it to those who peacefully reject him? Just something I've been increasingly thinking about.
The reason we object to the income tax is because it's backed up by force, therefore there's no "free will" or freedom to choose otherwise without the potential for serious repercussions. Thus it's not a choice and is a tyrannical act of force against peaceful individuals and WRONG. We see the reality of the income tax - it's the act of a brute or tyrant, not the act of a peaceful or benevolent person.
Well, when it comes to this belief in a hell - I see the same glaring contradiction, only this one is much bigger.
You have free will to choose to believe in God, but if you don't then you'll be burnt in perpetual agony in a place with no doors and no time. If God cannot even grant his own creation liberty, what makes us think it comes "from God"? And if it does, then why hold the threat of hell over our heads when doing so is basically a shakedown by an intellectually weak or dishonest authoritarian?
This question is posed for those who actually believe there is a physical hell and that God will send us there should we CHOOSE not to believe in him, and that it's a perpetual punishment/pain. If there are any on here... lol
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One of my favorites
"If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
But to TxRedneck's point, let's also look at Jeremiah 8.
"How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of YHUH is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain. The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of YHUH; and what wisdom is in them?"
Science from the Scripture
Repent, for the reign of YaHUaH is near!
Tons
Tons of verses on the subject.
Here's a great article on the subject, although there are tons more articles on the subject, too.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2004/07/17/the-sure...
No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul
I believe that Calvinism explains the Bible much better
than anything modern theologians can whip up.
Calvinism teaches predestination because the Bible is loaded with verses that make it perfectly clear that God elects whomever He wants to salvation.
You don't really have a choice in that scheme.
Since I have moved away from Calvinism, all preaching from my Christian friends has fallen on deaf ears. I'm convinced they don't understand the Bible, but they think they do. They think they have something to teach me, or else I'm damned. Well...I have rejected parts of the Bible (the parts about hell, mainly) and they have rejected parts of the Bible...so as far as I'm concerned, we're equal.
The truth is
somewhere between calvanism and arminianism. God knows who will be saved but he does not predestine people to go to hell necessarily (even though of course He knows who will). Christ died for all even those that do not accept Him. They only get the free gift of salvation when they come to Him. Until then it is waiting for them. That's what I believe because the Bible says God is not willing that ANY should perish.
I don't beleive a full belief in the 5 points of calvanism is correct. Or, vice versa arminianism because thats based on works salvation.
Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Calvinism is hooey
Calvinism is baloney. Read some of Dave Hunt's books on the subject if you want some truth about it.
No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul
I liked what you had to say about this.
I've rejected the parts of the Bible about God repeatedly killing children, babies, pregnant women, men, and animals as well as God permitting parts of the Bible to be written by whore-mongers. God would also not order that virgins be kept alive to be debauched at a later time. I do not believe that the God of the universe had anything to do with this savagery.
God is a fictional allmighty authoritarian invented by man.
I answer only to God, not kings (who based their power on God) or any pseudo order.
God is the only authority, if he or she or whatever shows up telling me what to do I will comply, till then, I will call my own shots.
That's the message Jesus was trying to pass on in my opinion..
my2cents
www.youtube.com/truefictions
I try to change people every day. Do You?
But Jesus
But Jesus Christ is a fictional character also, just like Sponge Bob and the Tooth Fairy.
"What would Sponge Bob do?" (WWSBD)
Really like your attitude.
You make me smile. Better this belief than church indoctrination. Be open to Angel communication, friends of God. ;) You make Angels smile too.
That can be dangerous.
The devil has angels too.
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
And the devil and his angels don't show up with tails and pitchforks when they show themselves to people either.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
That's why John gave us a litmus test whereby to see if a spirit is actually of God or not.
1 John 4:1-3a
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
Indeed, test every spirit and angel.
Those that are from God are LOVE, and no dark entity can fake the light of LOVE. Jesus was light in the world, and there was no mistaking that light.
If you believe in God it means God
created all of this, including human beings. If you make something, you OWN that something. You are in charge of that something. If there is a God and I believe there is, He's in charge and He makes the rules.
If there is a God, He is all-knowing, all-holy, all-powerful, and all-just. Human beings are wicked, vile, sinful creatures and no all-holy God would let vile, wicked, sinful creatures into his holy heaven because the second that vile, wicked, sinful human being set foot in heaven, heaven would no longer be heaven. It in turn would be corrupted by the presence of that vile, wicked, sinful human being.
The only way there can be communion between our all-holy, all-powerful, all-just Creator and wicked, vile, sinful human beings is if wicked, vile, sinful human beings are made holy in God's sight. That's why Jesus came to earth. God judged, condemned, and punished Jesus for your wickedness and my wickedness so, we could be holy in God's sight.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always heard there's a "holy trinity" consisting of father, son and holy spirit. These are all supposed to be God -- it's a three-in-one sort of deal, right?
If the above idea is correct, then God sacrificed himself. Which is fine, I suppose, for a Supreme Being who could have made us all "holy in his sight" in any manner he chose. So why did he choose the bloody sacrifice? For that matter, why is the Bible filled with all manner of bloody sacrifices?
As to the concept of heaven, where presumably all are happy and healthy forever, how would it be possible for me to be filled with joy while at the same time knowing that other human beings were being tortured and burned alive forever?
Response
The thing is we all deserve hell because of our sin.
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23
Jesus said in John 3 that he who doesn't believe in the only begotten Son of God is condemned already. It's because human beings are under the condemnation of God because of their sins that Jesus came and died. It's not like God said, I'm going to send my Son to earth to live as a man and suffer and if you people don't believe in Him, I'm going to send you all to hell. People were already under the condemnation of God. God condemned Jesus for man's sin out of His love for mankind in order to offer man a way of escape from the condemnation he deserves.
To all you Santa believers...
Focus on this message and not the messenger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RmQNs8fjQ8
God refers to Himself in the Plural
throughout the Old Testament, beginning in Genesis 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
God did sacrifice Himself, as represented by God the Son - Jesus. The reason is straightforward - only a sinless human could pay for the sins committed by other humans. A sinful human can only pay for his/her own sins.
As for the blood requirement, Hebrews 9:22 says, "Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." This goes back to the OT laws (see Leviticus) that required animal blood be shed to cover sin. The animal sacrifices were a kind of placeholder until a Perfect sacrifice (the Messiah, Jesus) could make the final atonement (payment) for sins through the shedding of His own blood.
To your question on joy in Heaven while others are in Hell (and, BTW, immortal, indestructible bodies cannot be burned), the best answer I have is that those in Heaven will be perfect in every way and therefore in total agreement with God's justice. "He [God] will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away." Revelation 21:4
Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father
Have to agree with what you said here, in part..
No one gets into the next higher dimension, we think of as Heaven, until they SEEK God and re-establish their connection to God-Consciousness while they are here on Earth. Jesus established his conscious connection to God because that is what he came here to do and he was seeking God. He tried to show us an example of what to do while we are here. SEEK GOD!
No one is allowed into the next grade or higher level until they pass the test here, and the test is "can you reconnect with God consciousness while you are on earth"? God does not think we are wicked or vile! We and God chose this test as an experience. There are many other planets and universes and experiences we can choose. (in my Father's house are many mansions John14:2)
No matter how horrendous our confused behavior, God forgives and keeps giving us chances in all the lifetimes we need to evolve and come back to God! You are right; you don't get to go UP a level until you are READY, like in grade school. You are not vile and wicked. That is church talk to control you.
...
Jesus was not seeking God. He was God come down to Earth as a man.
http://mobile.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&versio...
Abraham was born more than two thousand years before Jesus was born in Bethlehem, yet, Jesus told the Jews that He existed before Abraham.
John 8:57-59
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
I think we are all God in human form.
Some like Jesus are more advanced and more highly evolved spiritually than most of us here. He was and is a MASTER who came here to help us because humans have been lost and stuck so long at the same stage and can't seem to find their way back to a higher state of being. Jesus came to help and he helps even now from a higher place. He helps all that call to him. Angels help too.
Mormon?
?
No, not Mormon, just someone who felt called to study
scriptures and seek truth about God since my childhood. Most scriptures offer only partial truths that can easily be taken out of context to suit any argument.
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Mathew 6:6
Seek your truth from God, and not only from the words spoken or written by men.
This is a delusion
.
No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul
There is a creator that is in every particle of creation
and whose spirit and consciousness dwells in us and experiences through us. Really there is only One Being experiencing everything through its creation. That is right. YOU ARE that Being.
When we descend into the duality of the third dimension we forget that we are actually very high light beings choosing to have a human experience, in order to experience separateness from all of creation. It is a little like going to the circus just to experience all the wild rides.
The many higher dimensions all experience their connection to the creator, and only in this human experience can we feel completely separate. We are also given the challenge to try to remember and reestablish contact while we are here. Jesus incarnated and reconnected because that is what he was seeking to do. Seek and you will find. ;) Many are re-connecting at this time because Earth has earned the right to ascend to the fifth dimension. Those who reconnect can go with her.
Forget all that stuff about hell and all the power plays by humans trapped in their egos and forgetfulness. They are so lost and think this 3D Earth reality is all there is. They want all the wealth and power and control over others they can get, and have so forgotten who they really are. Be wary of any institution that wants to control you, and that includes the church.
buh-lo-nee
Complete nonsense. There is one true and living God. You find Him in the Bible, and He is separate from His creation, not part of it. We are mere creatures, not part of any nonsense about other dimensions and consciousness, etc. That stuff is baloney.
Get with the program and give your life to Christ.
No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul
I assure you that I know Christ Jesus well
and that is at a spiritual level, and not just a mind level. I assure you we are more than mere creatures. We are children of God, sparks of God consciousness, sons and daughters of the Divine Creator.
Try silencing your mind and listening during meditation, and the truth will be revealed. Yes, there is much truth in the Bible, and much misinterpretation. I have studied it for a lifetime. Seek truth from the Spirit of God within you.
No, you don't
The jesus you are talking about is not the Jesus of the Bible. Your jesus is made up and does not exist.
No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul
Seek truth from within. God will answer.
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in ... you are God's Sanctuary, and that the Spirit of God has His home within you?"
Corinthians 3:16
What if Jesus was misunderstood
Or deliberately misinterpreted. I found this fascinating talk by Alan Watts on Jesus and his teachings.
Part 2 of 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7kKxxjyDfA
Part 3 of 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOaAuASFoLI
Part 4 of 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIehB9c94D4
What if?
What if the Bible is 100% inspired and inerrant? What if Jesus told the truth when He said, "unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins," and "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me?"
That rules out everything else, doesn't it? What if you are believing a lie?
No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul
The universe embodies the Christ Consciousness
like a cloud that fills all of space. Jesus was filled with Christ Consciousness and it spoke through him, because that Consciousness is God's mind in all creation.
When we come to Earth in a human body we forget who we are and forget our connection to the Christ Consciousness and God. When Jesus speaks of being the WAY and the TRUTH he speaks of the Christ Consciousness that is within him. It is only through becoming aware of Christ Consciousness such as it is in Jesus that we can become aware again of our connection to God.
I believe that is what Beloved Jesus was saying. It was basically too deep a concept for the people of the day, but it is well understood in Yoga and Hinduism, and the truth will be revealed by God and Jesus if you ask for an explanation during meditation or just before going to sleep. .