6 votes

What If God Is A Brutal Authoritarian?

If you don't pay your taxes you'll go to jail.

If you don't believe in God you'll go to hell.

But of course, each is "voluntary" and you have the "free will" to object?

HMMMM...

If force against peaceful individuals is wrong, then why would God do it to those who peacefully reject him? Just something I've been increasingly thinking about.

The reason we object to the income tax is because it's backed up by force, therefore there's no "free will" or freedom to choose otherwise without the potential for serious repercussions. Thus it's not a choice and is a tyrannical act of force against peaceful individuals and WRONG. We see the reality of the income tax - it's the act of a brute or tyrant, not the act of a peaceful or benevolent person.

Well, when it comes to this belief in a hell - I see the same glaring contradiction, only this one is much bigger.

You have free will to choose to believe in God, but if you don't then you'll be burnt in perpetual agony in a place with no doors and no time. If God cannot even grant his own creation liberty, what makes us think it comes "from God"? And if it does, then why hold the threat of hell over our heads when doing so is basically a shakedown by an intellectually weak or dishonest authoritarian?

This question is posed for those who actually believe there is a physical hell and that God will send us there should we CHOOSE not to believe in him, and that it's a perpetual punishment/pain. If there are any on here... lol



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I see you added on

btw, I am not Christian.

if your "god's" system is one

You haven't defined what your god's system is. If its one built on voluntary choice, natural law and universal human rights, you're probably right. Disorder comes from coersion and collectivism, these things which break our natural tendency to work in tandem through free market forces. If not, then its just another collectivist tyrant who tortures those who don't agree.

To take up our cross

In baptism we are burying all the ways and desires of the world that we have become use to. Those desires will keep coming back and each time we must reject them until our body becomes willing to follow our lead.

Whom the son sets free is

Whom the son sets free is free indeed.
It is for freedom sake that you have been set free.
Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Freedom
You have been set free; do not let yourself be burdened again by a yoke of Slavery.
All things are permissible but I will be ruled by nothing.

God is all about freedom; you have a misunderstanding of The God of the Bible

Live Free or Die Trying

A Christian who wishes to "peacefully reject" God

and expects to go to Heaven is irreconcilable with the very basics of Christianity.

Reminds me of that Bob Dylan song:

"You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the Devil or it may be the Lord,
But you're gonna have to serve somebody"

which is wrong on dylans

which is wrong on dylans part. No one will serve the devil. the devil will be suffering along side those who chose not to serve the Lord.

No

if you don't serve the Lord you do serve satan even if that is not your intention. Even Christians at times through a bad example can mislead nonbelievers... You don't have to say, "hail" whoever to serve them. Just keep going about your life in peaceful rebellion.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

I don't reject God

I don't reject God peaceful or otherwise and I am thankful that you can't dictate what will happen to me.

It is easy to study the King James Bible. Just close your mind to all you have heard and simply read the words the way they are actually written. If you don't believe something the Bible says, it is more likely you are wrong than the Bible. Please don't make changes in the Bible so succeeding generations will have to contend with what you thought you new.

SteveO24's picture

I will never serve anyone

and anyone who expects me to serve them is a tyrant.

You people downvoted him for

You people downvoted him for saying this? Are you out of your minds? You get upvoted in this thread for being a boot-licking yes-man who serves under threat of coersion?

No leader should ever "expect" service. They should earn it by presenting a plan and a philosophy that inspires loyalty and devotion. Thats why we follow Ron Paul... not because he told us he was going to shoot us if we didn't vote for him.

Thor's mighty hammer... the hypocracy in this thread is staggering.

Yes Magwan77, it's

Yes Magwan77, it's astounding.

They down voted someone saying he does not want to be ruled over. lol

EVERYTHING THIS MOVEMENT STANDS FOR!!

Do you have children?

I'm just wondering.... As a father of three I expect my children to obey what I tell them...My directions guidelines, etc.... Am I a tyrant then?

That depends. Do you light

That depends. Do you light them on fire for all eternity when they choose to break your rules?

Can I ask your kids?

Can I ask your kids?

Jesus covered all the bases

Jesus covered all the bases that leads into eternity. There is no other way to go the correct way but to take up our cross daily and go with Him. Any other way will continue in a destructive direction.

Camery, I will do it

Camery, I will do it voluntarily provided that way is by defending individual freedom and liberty. I will do it voluntarily and without force. But the moment force or coercion is foisted upon me by another being is the moment that the entity becomes tyrannical and the destroyer of liberty and not something I can support. In point of fact, it becomes everything this movement was unified around stopping. Yet some of you not only worship this liberty-destroyer, you demand that the rest of us join your in your intellectually dishonest game.

Bingo. Liberty cannot exist

Bingo. Liberty cannot exist where choices are compeled by force.

Liberty is good. Force is evil. simple as that.

God uses force to compel worship and punishes for victimless crime.

Liberty is free choice without threat of coersion beyond the responsibility to own up and pay the piper for your own mistakes.

They are not compatable.

Foolishness.

Can liberty exist without force? If it can then there is no need to have the right to bear arms.
Liberty is good? You mean you don't have the free choice to do evil without punishment? There are many cases where liberty, the power to do as one pleases, is not good, and in these cases it is necessary to restrain the actions of one individual to protect another, with force.
Force is evil? Again, the right to use force to protect oneself or those you love is not evil.
Do you have a right to deny admittance of those you choose into your house? Are you to feed and care for those who refuse to work? Are you to produce only to have others take it, consume your product without payment or gratitude? If you do, then I am sure you will be able build or produce a god to provide you with a heaven after your death. But don't be disappointed if the heaven you build by comparison to the heaven of God, turns out to be hell.
grant

Right on

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

I Wrote A Different Verse

Fat Libertarian 14:7

And Fat Libertarian saith unto all, stopping acts of violence or force against peaceful individuals is the way to the truth and peace. No man cometh unto the peace, but by their acts and deeds standing against aggressors of all kinds. Defend the natural rights of the least among us and peace shall be yours. It's by your acts that you receive peace, not regurgitating dogma or worship. Anyone who says otherwise is a tyrant and a great deceiver trying to pull you away from peace and toward hatred. I say go now - be good and defend the weak and you'll get your peace.

All hail the fat libertarian!

All hail the fat libertarian(unless you don't want to)! Now there's a religeon I can endorse.

.

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Yes He is

You reap as you sow. No more, no less. And there are a dozen or more scriptures that point to us having lived before. I am a follower of Jesus and am finding it more and more difficult going to church.

God is definitely an authoritarian but what can you do about it? When it comes to Him, He stands alone and with all the authority. But for those who follow earnestly God is love in the purest sense.

Awesome post Camery. Spot

Awesome post Camery. Spot on. I LOVE intellectually honest posts that don't hide behind BS and rationalizations.

I don't know how anyone can condone what god supposedly does to the non-believers, but I suppose if you understand and accept that if you "don't" condone it, you're going to be down there with them in hell, then at least you're just doing what you think is best to perserve your own life. THAT is at least understandable.

Its the illusions and the hypocracy that drive me nuts. Its the claims that god is somehow libertarian, or that natural law and rights spring from god. If every christian, even the ones with the hell belief answered like this, I would be as happy as a clam. I can deal with honest debait and respect my opponent fully. I cannot respect intellectual dishonesty.

HUGE upvote for your post from me.

God is

love and judgment. Sometimes His judgment has to take over in your life to teach you things.... as you said you reap what you sow. God allows judgment through the cause and effect process. But when you come out of it you will hopefully have learned the lesson He's trying to teach you and be better for it.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

What lesson, exactly does one

What lesson, exactly does one take away from eternal torture and damnation for failure to worship someone?

Exactly when do you "come out of" eternal torture and damnation in order to put your newly aquired lessons to work?

You seem to be confusing "Eternal damnation" with "stern punishment."

At least the feds only toss you in the pokey for a few years for tax evasion.

Nope

We have not lived before.

No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul

Oh yeah?

Do you believe in the NIV? It is probably going to be the book of the state church. I am a firm believer in the King James Bible and you don't want to read my book.

Have you read John 9:1-3? Jesus didn't correct them on that subject. There isn't a main line church in the country that would let that go without correction but Jesus did. Maybe it is because they were correct in what they asked.

I read from KJV also

in my opinion it is the closest to the greek translation and all others, especially the NIV, have errors. For example, in the NIV, it says in one place in 1 Samuel I think that David slew Goliath. Then in another chapter it says one of David's mighty men slew him.

You mentioned John 9:1-3:

1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

He was blind from birth so that Jesus could fulfill prophecy by healing the man. "what the works of God should be made manifest"

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

SteveO24's picture

Great post

I agree.