What If God Is A Brutal Authoritarian?
Submitted by Robert Timsah on Sat, 12/29/2012 - 20:39If you don't pay your taxes you'll go to jail.
If you don't believe in God you'll go to hell.
But of course, each is "voluntary" and you have the "free will" to object?
HMMMM...
If force against peaceful individuals is wrong, then why would God do it to those who peacefully reject him? Just something I've been increasingly thinking about.
The reason we object to the income tax is because it's backed up by force, therefore there's no "free will" or freedom to choose otherwise without the potential for serious repercussions. Thus it's not a choice and is a tyrannical act of force against peaceful individuals and WRONG. We see the reality of the income tax - it's the act of a brute or tyrant, not the act of a peaceful or benevolent person.
Well, when it comes to this belief in a hell - I see the same glaring contradiction, only this one is much bigger.
You have free will to choose to believe in God, but if you don't then you'll be burnt in perpetual agony in a place with no doors and no time. If God cannot even grant his own creation liberty, what makes us think it comes "from God"? And if it does, then why hold the threat of hell over our heads when doing so is basically a shakedown by an intellectually weak or dishonest authoritarian?
This question is posed for those who actually believe there is a physical hell and that God will send us there should we CHOOSE not to believe in him, and that it's a perpetual punishment/pain. If there are any on here... lol
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The same collective bunch that say's you
will go to jail are the same collective bunch that says you will go to hell.
They are the SAME collectives. There is NO difference. They just don't seem to understand WE ARE IN HELL. We just want to leave before the door shuts, LoL! GOD will not keep us from his/her/its/light/love.
You are confusing the MAN MADE GOD. Not the one you find within yourself.
Jim
1976-1982 USMC, You can thank me for my service by voting for Dr. Ron Paul, President 2012
It's not collectivist
At least, in Christianity it's not. God is concerned about each individual person.
“It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till." -J.R.R. Tolkien
Pretty hard to fight
Pretty hard to fight collectivist when we install it into the minds of our children the first time we start teaching them to believe bullshit on faith alone.
Reason is our only cure. A faith-based mind is nearly immune to reason unless it comes under a situation that demands that the reasoning mind and the faith-based mind collide. Only one survives, and the winner of that will dictate wether that person will become a rational being, or if they will go off the deep end and become a zealot beyond the touch of any logic.
As for Mr. Beattles... he had some good ideas, however silly John, Property rights are for freedom. Can't have freedom without personal property. A few million dead commies and counting, and they still can't get that through their thick collectivist skulls.
Imagine there's no heaven...And no religon too
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religon too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
Imagine no possesions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
In a brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say i'm a dreamer
But i'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
DENY CONSENT
The gospel teaches us the end of religion isn't always pretty
Unfortunately, we get all caught up between our journey methods and our worthy outcomes. These two elements of life are uniquely our own, but are always best enjoyed within a compatible family, community, town, city, county, state, etc., right? Our perspectives must have some intrinsic worth to them, if we hope to trade well in the marketplace of ideas.
I believe this imaginary gospel of John L. leaves us with a bigger void than our collective imaginings can possibly fill; even though I also believe in the amazing power of our individual mind's abilities to imagine and create.
The relative ease that Lennon refers to when he bids us to, "imagine there's no heaven"; isn't in our mind's ability to shut out the possibility of a place where God openly rules, but in our mind's willingness to settle for easier sounding solutions to make things less painful and more pleasant. Lennon sold the premise that our disconnection from living for today is caused by our religious preoccupation with end of life fears. Absense of any final judgement thoughts will surely bring all our lives onto today's page, and wallah; peaceful unity among all mankind!
"Countries, religion, possessions", we are preached to by John L., are "no,no's" to imagine if we are to join his utopia. "Imagine all the people living life in peace",..."sharing all the world",..." "And the world will be as one". Really, Johnny?
Cancelling certain beliefs, and replacing them with imaginatively prescribed,"better", ones may sound good on one level; but even this lyrically-gifted ex-Beatle couldn't sell enough listeners on joining him to make it happen.
Jesus warned us to, "Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." Luke 12:15 Perhaps, if we did a lot more heeding, we'd have a lot less bleeding in the world, eh?
For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it. - Patrick Henry
There will ALWAYS be a God.
The question is, WHO will be the people's God? If there is no supreme being/creator, then the STATE will impose itself as "God". Belief in a higher authority than the State is another check on Government power. Think the Founding Fathers understood this? Maybe even atheist libertarians can see the value of it.
Ann in Florida
I think
Mao Ze-Dong
Adolf Hitler
Kim Il Sung
Jozef Stalin
Leopold II of Belgium
Roughly 100,000,000 human beings, that is 100 million human beings have died under people who believe there was no heaven or hell under/above them.
Our nation and the people who also fallow the foots steps of these people have killed around 65k 65,000 babies under the choice of abortion.
Once America completely rejects God if we ever do we will soon add millions to our total of deaths.
live breath eat fight struggle liberty
How many people do you suppose your
God has killed? There was the flood of the earth, every first born child (had to be a lot of innocents in there)in Egypt, city after city, including Soddom and Gommorah, as well as God also commanding the women and children were to be gifts to those who destroyed the men of the city. I think Hitler was child's play compared to the God Abrahamic faiths worship.
:(
The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine
Understand
And yet, phxarcher87, if God were any of those 5 people and he'd killed over a trillion people, all lot of people would say they "DESERVED IT". This is the contradiction I don't think your kind understand. If it's wrong for Mao, or Hitler, how is it right for God?
And nothing in your post deals with the dishonest offer of saying you have freedom and free will, and yet if you don't worship me, I'll torture you for eternity. I'd take death over a lifetime of torture. If what your God is selling is so bad that he has to scare us with eternal torture then maybe there's something wrong with his product?
(Edit - I see now that you don't believe in a physical hell so nevermind..)
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Just maybe
How are we supposed to understand 100% of God ration ell. He after all is the one who breathed into existence the heavens? Just maybe he has a master plan that you or i will never truly understand until we are standing in his company?
live breath eat fight struggle liberty
That's just a cop out. If God
That's just a cop out. If God cannot follow the principles that HE commands us to follow, then GOD HIMSELF HAS NO PRINCIPLES. No wonder he must threaten us with hell to get us to do his bidding. When you consider the implications of an eternal-hell God, they're rather disconcerting. Jan Helfield could trip your God up in one interview. I say your God because you keep taking offense to what I'm saying, even though it ONLY applies to the God of eternal punishment.
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I firmly believe
that 99% of people and Dr. Paul would disagree with you.
I feel this is finished if that is what you sum up.
live breath eat fight struggle liberty
Your SO WRONG!
People that do not believe in ghosts and illogical mythologies are far more sane and "normal" than people that think there is skydaddy looking down on them.
Hitler was a christian btw.
And its a good cop bad cop swap out. The State trys to get its serfs to worship it and if that fails they turn to the priest class...if people turn away from the religous propaganda...they run to the State as their savior (from terrorists right now) We need to GROW UP and kick them both out of our lives. Individual responsibility is key. I don't need the State or "God" to make me moral or to "save" me.
I need more Adults to think logically and stop believing in a book that man wrote when he still lived in the stone age.
DENY CONSENT
LOL
Hitler was no more a Christian than you are. I don't think we need theology lessons from someone who can't even spell.
No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul
lol more sane and more normal and more right and more .....
I'm all ears amigo lay it on me. How do i get off of this planet and continue to live peacefully after i die. Shoot!!!! I want to hear it.
Btw Iv heard the fish thing where we were in a pool,Lightning shocked the water then grew a tail then crawled up on the bank, then started walking around and Powwwww now here we are. Oh and were still eating fish btw.
I dissected a human heart the other day and iv rebuilt a few carburetors in my life there is nooooooo way through random mutation and chaotic chance the human heart was a piece of evolution micro or macro. Oh and im only talking about the physical aspect of the heart, not the warm fuzzy stuff that we have a choice to put in it:)
No but seriously the heart and the carburetor are pretty awesome we give credit to man for the construction of the carb, so i choose to give credit to God for building my pumper the heart because after all it had a designer.
live breath eat fight struggle liberty
Hate to break it to you Phx but this life is all you got!
Whatever comes after this life is "what's next"! You don't know and neither does anyone else.
The way I view it, is when I was living in my mothers womb, I was in a place where I was happy and comfortable. I clearly didn't want to leave that world but I was forced out. Now I'm in this world. I have zero fear of death or dying but I don't need some fairy tale to keep me from putting a revolver in my mouth. I enjoy each and every day living in the here and now.
When my time comes...I die and move on to whats next. Whatever it is.
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." -- Thomas Pain
DENY CONSENT
Hate to break what?
Christ has broken me from the mold you stand in! Thomas Pain once brought me delight in reading. I pray in time the small door in your heart is opened like mine was.
live breath eat fight struggle liberty
(Matthew 12:36-37)
Jesus said: “But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned”
It's the one thing about truth that no man can take away. Once you have heard it and it makes it into your brain, you cannot ever erase the truth. You may fight it and go against it and shame it but once the truth is planted it cannot ever be removed. Just like the message Dr.Paul preaches, Liberty is the perfect message, even though the messengers are not always perfect.
live breath eat fight struggle liberty
So according to Jesus,
So according to Jesus, "words" are more important than actions?
More and more I find the Bible to be just inadequate.
There's no sin in defending peaceful individuals from acts of aggression.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcnfT4arZtI
I challenge you to read the stories of Jesus the new testament more say. This challenge will not be easy but worthy non the less. Dont be afraid to pray if you have any questions. This is what many people and i did before i laid down my life for Christ.
I find this helpful too sometimes when things are tough.
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/missions/miss7.htm
live breath eat fight struggle liberty
Hitler was NOT a Christian; neither were the Nazi leaders
His parents were Catholic, however:
Joseph Goebbels, 12/28/1939: "The Führer is deeply religious, though completely anti-Christian; he views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race. Both [Judaism and Christianity] have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end, they will be destroyed." (Boelcke 1970).
Adolph Hitler: "Historically speaking, the Christian religion is nothing but a Jewish sect.... After the destruction of Judaism, the extinction of Christian slave morals must follow logically.... Ah, the God of the deserts, that crazed, stupid, vengeful Asiatic despot with his power to make laws!" (Robinson 1943).
Adolph Hitler: Night of 11th-12th July, 1941: "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (Bormann 1953, pp. 6-7).
"Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked.... complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion." --http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1753469.stm
July 6, 1945 - "The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian Churches" -- http://org.law.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion/nurinst...
Totalitarians hate Christianity
Christianity, with its emphasis on the individual and on the moral responsibility of the individual, is anathema to the collectivist. That's why collectivists the world over, including Adolph Hitler and his Nazi Party, hate Christianity.
The light
shining in the darkness
thx boys and girls
live breath eat fight struggle liberty
Interesting perspective on Lennon and his faith
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7pe3_VQbUM
Love that song. It's so
Love that song.
It's so idealistic.
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Lennon's song is for a Communist New World Order.
That's why it was practically the anthem of the London Olympics.
You love it?
Let's see..One world government (no countries). No heaven, no God (just our benevolent tyrant rulers). No God-given individual rights. No Constitution. No property rights.
Very idealistic, indeed!
Ann in Florida
Elvis Costello
had song berating Lennon for some ideas.
"Was it a millionaire who said "imagine no possessions"?
A poor little schoolboy who said "we don't need no lessons"?
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut