What If God Is A Brutal Authoritarian?
Submitted by Robert Timsah on Sat, 12/29/2012 - 20:39If you don't pay your taxes you'll go to jail.
If you don't believe in God you'll go to hell.
But of course, each is "voluntary" and you have the "free will" to object?
HMMMM...
If force against peaceful individuals is wrong, then why would God do it to those who peacefully reject him? Just something I've been increasingly thinking about.
The reason we object to the income tax is because it's backed up by force, therefore there's no "free will" or freedom to choose otherwise without the potential for serious repercussions. Thus it's not a choice and is a tyrannical act of force against peaceful individuals and WRONG. We see the reality of the income tax - it's the act of a brute or tyrant, not the act of a peaceful or benevolent person.
Well, when it comes to this belief in a hell - I see the same glaring contradiction, only this one is much bigger.
You have free will to choose to believe in God, but if you don't then you'll be burnt in perpetual agony in a place with no doors and no time. If God cannot even grant his own creation liberty, what makes us think it comes "from God"? And if it does, then why hold the threat of hell over our heads when doing so is basically a shakedown by an intellectually weak or dishonest authoritarian?
This question is posed for those who actually believe there is a physical hell and that God will send us there should we CHOOSE not to believe in him, and that it's a perpetual punishment/pain. If there are any on here... lol
- Login to post comments
No. Jesus is the Creater.
No. Jesus is the Creater. Jesus said. If you have seen me you have seen the father.
It takes more
that just sight or head knowledge it takes faith in believing Christ is the savior and God's son.
Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Hold on a sec... I call BS!
Hold on a sec... I call BS!
Food for thought
From Alan Watts on how we got the bible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw62X69hV-0
Religion is all about
Religion is all about control. It's been used to keep the commoners in check for millenia.
God is an invention of human beings. Human beings of course are arrogant enough to imagine an all powerful god as a human-like being complete with hands, gender, and eye balls.
And then ironically intelligent people start using words like 'faith' when you try to talk some sense into them regarding religion.
This is coming from an ex-catholic who was an alter boy btw. Hell, I used to tell the priest in confession every time I masturbated. Because... god is always watching you, just like big brother.
Does He who formed the eye
Does He who formed the eye not see? Does He who implanted the ear not hear?
Excuse Me...
But may I ask a simple question. Given that there is no God, as you so boldly taught us, what could possibly be wrong with keeping "commoners in check" with myths? What is wrong with arrogance?
With all this moral indignation you ooze, it sounds like you believe there is some real 'right and wrong' floating out in godless space - is there some obligation on us in this regard? If so, what is it and where did it come from? If not, then what's the problem with any of this, and why all the moral indignation? Why should anyone care what you think in this gaudy cosmic show?
Morality
What makes you think that right and wrong do not come from the societies we are a part of? You seem to pose that people have no way of knowing right from wrong without a divine source or leader to tell us what is right and what is wrong.
You are somewhat right that right and wrong is not always seen the same way. For instance if you are part of a headhunter tribe in the Amazon you may feel bad if you do not come home with a head on a pike. Some cultures felt sacrifice was right, some believe in socialism, we generally come to agreement on murder, unless its someone from a different country. My point is we do not all see right and wrong the same way. We do seem to share the right and wrong that we are taught by the societies we grow up in.
To act as if people are not deciding what is right and wrong completely ignores the fact that we follow some of the Bible's teachings yet we cherry pick the ones that best fit our societies definition of right and wrong. We don't worry about the parts of the Bible that tells us to stone a woman or the part that states the "rule of thumb". we ignore the strange part where God destroys Saddam and Gamorrah, yet he saves the one guy that offers his virgin daughters to the mob rather than let them have the angels that appeared to him. This holy man, after god turned his wife to salt was tricked into getting so drunk that his virgin daughters raped him.
sorry to tell you but if we get our morals from the Bible, then I am very worried.
Why be worried? It's all
Why be worried? It's all relative to our society, right? Nothing wrong, at least in any inherent way, with virgin daughters having sex with daddy, or melting homo cities, or stoning women. Right?
If society decides for itself, and a particular society decides on the Bible as a guide, well then, there you go! What is there to worry about?
That you don't like the morality means nothing. In your post you have rendered all moral judgment subjective and relative to the observer. So for you to worry about it seems a bit self absorbed.
Good one, food for thought
You touched on something I've given a lot of thought in the past. If you believe in a God or not, think of it in these terms. If you personally were responsible for, let's say...not create but dropping a group of young people on this earth, what would you give them to survive? The bible gives the perfect blueprint for a loving, caring society to flourish in every aspect. What organized religion has done with it, used it, may be another story.
Deekey
Right and wrong are very
Right and wrong are very relative terms. Hitler was doing the right thing in his mind. The Aztecs were doing the right thing when they ripped peoples' hearts out of their chests in order to make it rain.
Moral indignation comes from how I would personally like to see the world. That's why I post. I want to share ideas with others.
Why should anyone care what you think either?
This is a public forum for people to shoot ideas around. You chose to read my comments.
LOL!
Yes, I choose to read your comments.. and furthermore, I have a reason to discuss these issues that is more than mere personal opinion. If what I believe is true, then it makes sense for me to post on the subject.
You preach like some sweaty evangelist in a tent revival, complete with a big floppy book. And when I ask what book you are preaching from, you respond by saying, "Just my personal likes and dislikes". What a hoot! Here you are, confessing that all your rants are little more than a personal prejudice of your own!
Amazing! And sadly hilarious!
People shooting ideas around? What are people? A bunch of chemical sacks spouting their very temporary and ultimately meaningless opinions. At least, so says you.
Of course I'm talking about
Of course I'm talking about my own personal likes and dislikes. Your book is full of shit btw.
If what you believe is true,
Then this is more of that meaningless personal opinion! If what you believe is true, then all books are full of it... and so is your head!
Too funny!
LOL ROFL LOL
OMGZ, you're too funny. I'm laughing at your little profile pic in China. I can't help you. You are a brainwashed sheep unable to think for yourself. Just keep doing as you're told little boy.
Thinking for yourself?
Well, just keep in mind it's all relative, as you told us. So nothing wrong with a good brain washing in your world.
It is I who is not thinking? Interesting! You label all your posts as little better than subjective prejudices... then keep right on posting them. What a riot!
You're an idiot! You think
You're an idiot! You think you are so clever though like some kind of liberal elitist.
Do we take a vote on idiocy?
Do we take a vote on idiocy? Is that how it is decided? Or is there some standard for foolishness that is more than merely ephemeral?
You keep sounding like a preacher, one who writes in the margins "Point weak, shout louder here". Perhaps when the self contradictory nature of your worldview is easily exposed, you have a back up plan that includes slinging insults, as if anyone should care about the jabbering of the neurons in your bone box. Fear not, it will all be over very soon. The chemical sack known as 'littlespy' will break down into its composite elements and disperse, and the meaningless chemical reactions in that curious vat called a brain will cease from their fizzing.
Rest well. I might check back tomorrow to see more strange postings that you have made clear cannot be taken seriously... It is like a train wreck.
You sound like some fresh out
You sound like some fresh out of college sarcastic kid who thinks they know everything, with your little sly remarks. You're not being clever at all.
I Have Been out of College for 25 Years
And I'm not being clever, nor am I trying to be. I'm just pointing out the obvious concerning your own posts. Nothing clever in that a bit. And I think it safe to say that if you were a bit more clever, you wouldn't be responding at all.
...
You haven't pointed out anything all you've done is put a bunch of words in my mouth and then refuted, said words.
There you go again putting snide little remarks in your post trying to be clever.
I prefer more of a blunt approach:
Please, go and fondle the genitals of a goat!
Just to clarify... a)I have a
Just to clarify...
a)I have a worldview that maintains the existence of an absolute right and wrong that is obligatory on human behavior.
b)You have told us that good and evil are merely a matter of opinion and are therefore completely subjective.
So given that my view disallows sex with goats and other beasts, while yours leaves it up for grabs, maybe I can predict who is more likely to be the goats lover. Ya think?
Human beings are an invention
Human beings are an invention of God. Even Darwin was agnostic. My faith stems from my lack of faith in the intellect of man. Also, from reasoning in my head of why its Christianity, and not some other religion. Just because man doesn't have a telescope thermometer barometer etc to prove the existance of God doesn't mean He's not there. I don't fall for stupid propoganda anymore, and I absolutely believe in Christianity.
One world, under government, with power and money for the elite
We'll never know who Jesus
We'll never know who Jesus really was (if he even really existed) . Christianity was completely hijacked by the roman emperor Constantine in the 300's AD. Research the Council of Nicaea.
There's so much "paganism" in Christianity right in front of everyone's faces too. Don't you think it's odd that we celebrate the birth of the son on the winter solstice and observe his death on the spring equinox?
Christianity is a revamping of Roman sun worship. Look at a picture of the Roman god Apollo. He's usually depicted with sun beams coming out of his head just like jesus.
All of the gospels were written a few generations after the apostles lived. That's why it's the Gospel according to... Matthew, Mark etc.
There are many many holes in Christianity.
it's proven
over and over again that Jesus existed. That is not in question at all. It's historical fact.
Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Baloney
As I said regarding another post, none of that is new or true.
No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul
You're referencing Catholicism, which is not the truth
that Jesus Christ preached. Religion enslaves people, but Jesus sets people free.
Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html
Oh my bad, I forgot the
Oh my bad, I forgot the church of latter day saints got it right.
Please... The infighting in christianity is a huge turn off too. The catholics think they are superior and the other religions are heathens, the baptists think the catholics are morons and worship the wrong way. The methodists think they have it right and are the ones getting into heaven. It's pretty comical.
Au contraire mon frere. :)
Notice, I did NOT say to follow ANY religion. I said, Jesus Christ's teaching alone. I don't ask other men what to believe, I ask God and read His word. Religion keeps men in bondage. Jesus sets men free.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html
The in-fighting turns off many Christians, as well.
Just because some "Christians" are in-fighting does not mean that Christianity is bad. That's about as bad an argument as the gun-control people use.
There are plenty of Christian churches that do not judge other religions, and there are plenty of Catholics, Baptists and Methodists who do not judge, as well. Painting everyone with the same brush is simplistic.