What If God Is A Brutal Authoritarian?
Submitted by Robert Timsah on Sat, 12/29/2012 - 20:39If you don't pay your taxes you'll go to jail.
If you don't believe in God you'll go to hell.
But of course, each is "voluntary" and you have the "free will" to object?
HMMMM...
If force against peaceful individuals is wrong, then why would God do it to those who peacefully reject him? Just something I've been increasingly thinking about.
The reason we object to the income tax is because it's backed up by force, therefore there's no "free will" or freedom to choose otherwise without the potential for serious repercussions. Thus it's not a choice and is a tyrannical act of force against peaceful individuals and WRONG. We see the reality of the income tax - it's the act of a brute or tyrant, not the act of a peaceful or benevolent person.
Well, when it comes to this belief in a hell - I see the same glaring contradiction, only this one is much bigger.
You have free will to choose to believe in God, but if you don't then you'll be burnt in perpetual agony in a place with no doors and no time. If God cannot even grant his own creation liberty, what makes us think it comes "from God"? And if it does, then why hold the threat of hell over our heads when doing so is basically a shakedown by an intellectually weak or dishonest authoritarian?
This question is posed for those who actually believe there is a physical hell and that God will send us there should we CHOOSE not to believe in him, and that it's a perpetual punishment/pain. If there are any on here... lol
- Login to post comments
Then you have the Calvinists
Who believe they were "chosen", even before they were born. Influential people in the churches have taken parts of the bible and adapted them to support their point of view.
One of my favorite quotes: "God gave man the word, and the word of God was with the man, and then the Devil said. "let me organize it for you and we will call it religion"
I never said christianity is
I never said christianity is bad soley because of the infighting, I just said that the infighting is comical.
Christianity is bad because it is based on lies and false hope.
You don't understand
God's Word, the Bible, is backed by historical fact. SO many things mentioned in the Bible are being discovered and coming to light backed by scientific fact. It just takes us humans a long time to get even near the same level as God or understand just a simple snippet He's allowed us to see of His grand wisdom.
You need to consider that if God's Word is correct you have a lot of thinking to do.
Sodom and Gomorra were thought for a long time to be a Biblical inaccuracy/myth, until they were discovered by archeologists covered in what we perceive to be brimstone. Even a placard with the name "Pontius Pilate" has been found. It is also well known that there is evidence all over the world in nature and throughout dozens of cultures that a great flood occurred. It's no coincidence that they seem to prove the Bible right.
The worst thing about "Christianity" is that there are multiple versions of the Bible, but that is not necessarily the fault of true Christians. These are made mostly by nonbelievers who see a market which millions of people invest in. The only version that is not copyrighted in the KJV. It is also the closest translation to the Greek.
One of many many things that proves the Bible correct is:
1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Through countless attempts to destroy God's Word it has lasted.
If you feel you are finding "errors" in God's Word than post them here as a reply. I don't have all the answers, but will try my best to explain things to you.
Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Please back up your comments
Please give evidence of "Christianity is bad because it is based on lies and false hope."
Or is it just something you decided one day.
And you said the in-fighting is a huge turn-off AND comical. Sorry, I read that as there was little you found good about Christianity...what exactly do you find "not bad" about it?
Read the whole thread.
Read the whole thread.
Um. Not enough.
Bring some real evidence to the table, please.
Who the hell are you?? I'm
Who the hell are you?? Why should I waste time arguing with some random person about religion. You can find tons of articles against christianity on google. I'm going to sleep, it's midnight.
On the contrary.
We're all born walking on the path to Hell. God - through Jesus - said, "Hey, look, I'm giving you a way out!"
Imagine this: you're stuck on a train track with high walls on both sides. There's an oncoming train. Someone then drops a rope ladder down, yelling, "Grab the rope or you'll die!" You don't condemn that person as a brutal authoritarian, you grab the ladder, climb to safety, and thank them profusely.
Why are we born on the path to Hell? Sin cannot exist in the presence of God; were we to enter His presence without being redeemed, we would be destroyed, and God does not create only to obliterate - Hell must therefore logically exist as a place for the created (us) to exist outside of the presence of God. Jesus provides a path through which to have our sin purged completely, allowing us to enter God's presence.
Hold on a sec...
... how did I get on this train to start with ?
Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% fatality rate.
Thank You Fishy !!!
I'll explain why.
It is because you believe in a fairytale. There is NO god out there saying "I am going to create billions of people and BURN to shit 90% of them, just because I can."
OK? Wake up man. All muslims BURN, all atheists BURN, all jews BURN, all buddists BURN, most "christians" BURN.
Are you freaking kidding me?? Are you freaking kidding me??? You guys have ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of this BS. You get all of this crap from a MULTIBILLION dollar TAX FREE corporation. I am sick of it.
You are not brothers in LIBERTY. None of you.
"I am going to create
"I am going to create billions of people and BURN to shit 90% of them, just because I can."
Can you give us the chapter and verse? Sorry, couldn't resist.
Wow.
Lots of emotion. I can't really respond, because you didn't actually say anything.
Oh yes I did.
And your response proves it.
No you didn't.
If you don't believe it, then why do you care so much?
If it doesn't exist, why do you assert it does, in an attempt to demonstrate your supposed point that it does not.
You are the one being illogical here, not the religionist.
My thoughts exactly! I posted
My thoughts exactly! I posted a reply but I like your response better. The Lord is so good! Part of this battle is a spiritual battle to make it seem as if God is the tyrant. He calls Himself Saviour for a reason. Great response dude!
One world, under government, with power and money for the elite
No response
If you're going to downvote, at least explain why.
I didn't downvote, but let me
I didn't downvote, but let me put your analogy more in line with reality...
We are all on a train speeding down the tracks. There are a few men of shifty motivations dressed in fancy clothes and with big hats telling us that the train is headed for a cliff... but they don't have access to the engine room any more than we do, so basically they are telling us just to trust them since they hear voices. These same people are trying to convince us that there is an invisable ladder with golden wings, just off the edge of the train. We can't see it, but they tell us if we want to jump off the death-trap train that their God has built... we simply have to "believe" that the ladder is there, and leap off the edge of the speeding train.
To throw salt in to the proverbial wound... The man tells us that God built the train, purposefully sabatoged the tracks so that the train will go off a cliff, and that its our own fault for being on the train and not jumping for the invisable ladder. There really aren't words to describe the level of stupid needed to swallow this.
Oh but wait... its the devil making me use all this "logic." Quick, cover your eyes.
God has given us many evidences of His existence.
One must choose to close their eyes and hold their ears in the face of the evidence to say it doesn't exist. God made us and therefore knows what we were created to do and how we were created to live. When he gives us commands they are for our own good, not to ruin our lives. Like when I make my children eat broccoli instead of candy, or do a science project instead of watch T.V., or not run into a busy street, etc. etc.. It's not because I'm a brutal dictator, It's because I love them and want the best for them. So it is with God.
If you want some of the evidence I'm talking about, look up Moody Science Videos with Irwin Moon on youtube. Or watch a Kent Hovind seminar. Or read In Defense of the Faith by Dave Hunt. Or just look around with an open mind and heart. The Bible proves itself when we see the good and evil all around us. Or, cover your eyes and hold your ears, and keep saying, "God doesn't exist."
God gave us a good mind, so I know He intends us to use it. It's how we choose to use it that makes the difference.
Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html
If he was giving out
If he was giving out evidence, he wouldn't require faith as admission into heaven. Don't be silly.
If god had any interest in giving us "evidence" he'd come down in a golden chariot and cast a few high level spells for people to Oooh and Awww about.
Faith is based on having evidence...Like, I have faith the sun
will come up tomorrow. I don't know the future, but based on all the evidence, I know the sun will rise. You're confusing faith with credulity.
And, a hard-hearted man would not believe even if God came down with a golden chariot. The pharisees in the Bible are proof of this. Jesus healed people right before their eyes and they got angry because it was the sabbath day, or that He forgave the person's sins, or any other reason they could come up with.
Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html
A slight correction to your
A slight correction to your view on theology... well, actually it is a huge correction and it comes from an orthodox Christian perspective, for what it's worth.
No one goes to Hell based on some supposed free will to either believe or not believe in God. Those that go there, deserve to go there because they are sinners worthy of temporal and eternal damnation. If there is something unfair in this scenario, then it is certainly that some who deserve to go there, do not end up going there. And, oddly enough, this is wholly by God's mercy and grace.
Now what is your complaint?
I agree with most
except that I have understood that we ALL deserve to be in Hell but for the mercy and saving grace of our Lord and Savior! Praise be His name!
It is unfortunate that many of our fellow believers have such an unloving worldview. It breaks my heart how easily conned by propaganda many are, but then again, I was fooled until 5 years ago, too. Thank God He used Ron Paul and many on this site to help open my eyes.
"except that I have
"except that I have understood that we ALL deserve to be in Hell but for the mercy and saving grace of our Lord and Savior!"
Though not in those exact words, if you take my post as a whole, this is indeed my point. Simply because I did not qualify that all men are sinners, does not mean that I recognize any man as worthy of God... save ONE, praise be His name.
Define "sinner'.
A sinner is someone born under a sign. Born in time. That is you. That is everyone. Even the bible backs that up. So why aren't you going to your fairytale hell?
...
Well we are born as sinners, and deserve to go to hell, but learn the path of righteousness and follow it as best we can to try and be saved from what we deserve...the cycle of suffering (eternal hell). So, not going to hell because of finding out how to escape the cycle of suffering.
Question ?
Why,though no fault of my own,was I born a sinner ?
What infraction of what rule did I comment ?
Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% fatality rate.
Thank You Fishy !!!
born sinner
You were Not!
Tasers are Torture, Deism.com
Tell ME.
What is the PATH of righteousness O' great one? How do I avoid being burnt to a crisp for eternity by your god of "love"?
JBS is wrong, unfortunately. Most people hold this view
of heaven and hell, but it is unscriptural.
Anyway, if I was talking to you or anyone else, I would ask what you think Christianity teaches that a person has to do to have eternal life (heaven after death). A common answer is, "Believe in Jesus and live the golden rule." Although this is a nice thing to do, no one will ever make it to heaven this way. For one thing, which human on the face of this planet has ever lived the golden rule? I know I haven't, much as I've tried.
We have a conscience, so that when we lie, steal, use His name in vain, hate our brother, or commit sexual sin, etc., we do it with knowledge that it is wrong. Every culture in the world has a similar set of ethics, and because of this, I submit to you that this conscience is God-given. Conscience only speaks to us on moral issues, never trite things, such as the color of the shirt we should wear that day.
When we knowingly disobey the truth we hold, God calls it sin. Sin is what sends people to hell.
If you read the "judge not" verse in context, you will see that what Jesus is saying is that every time you think, "so and so should not have done that", you are proving that you know it is wrong to do such things and therefore will be judged for that sin when you die. An example would be when we saw Ken Lay lying, we said, "that is wrong." We are by nature, judgmental beings. We make moral judgements all day every day, because we are humans and not animals.
God loves people and doesn't want them to spend eternity in the lake of fire (that was created for the Devil and not people in the first place). But because of His justice, He must punish sin. He can't let murder and rape just slide. And because He is so holy, He can't let lies and thievery, or any other sin, slide either.
So, He decided to do the amazing. He himself would come to earth and live a perfect life (what no other human would ever do) and then shed His innocent blood to pay the debt of sin. He took the sins of the entire world upon Himself, so that if anyone believes on Him, they can receive His righteousness in return. Then when they stand before Him on judgement day, they won't have to answer for all the sins they committed, because God sees them as living the righteous life that Jesus Christ lived.
If this sounds strange to you, don't be surprised, most so-called Christians don't understand it either. Everyone wants to keep trying to be good enough to make it, and they never are. Most people can't even make it one day without sinning. God is not interested in the self-righteous and proud, because they never put their faith in Him and what He's done.
God gave His law, not because we could obey it, although it is a good law. He gave us His law to show us that we needed Him. We can never be good enough to reach a Holy God. Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me."
I've presented the overall message of the Bible here in this short post. I will not argue with all the religious folks who want to keep people in bondage with their man-made traditions and misinterpretations. Jesus came to set people free, so seek Him, not religion.
The Bible is a long and very deep book, so don't get frustrated. I don't think anyone will ever know everything there is to know. Start with the books of John and Romans. The scripture tells us that if you seek truth, you will find it. So, God bless you on your journey.
Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html
.
Hey I can see how you think I'm wrong from my post, but I must say I completely agree with you. I just didn't really word what I meant very well. I know you cannot make it to heaven by trying to live righteously as we are sinful natured humans. I do feel though, that if you do wrong, even unknowingly you will be punished. I must admit though that I haven't read much of the Bible yet, only a few of the books in it. Well I appreciate your post and explanation 1controversialchick, and like I said I agree with what your saying...just really misrepresented the truth in my first post there.