41 votes

Wife got pulled out of the car over a malfunctioning brake light.

On New Years day my wife was subjected to, what my limited legal knowledge tells me, a transgression against her rights as a human. On the plus side, she made an instant conversion to "conspiracy-nut" Libertarianism. She would like to give the "system" as hard a time as possible without getting slapped with contempt of court, lol. I would like to begin with gaining a little knowledge from the DP members who have been successful at fighting off the badge-wielding mafia. I'll try to give as much detail as I can.

She got the infamous red/blue lights in her rearview on New years night on the way TO the bar. The officer pulled out from a side road less than half of a block before her destination, so she pulled into the parking lot, a well lighted area, and parked, remaining in the vehicle. (The officer accused her of evading, lol)...

...She provided all the necessary info to the officer through a small opening in her window (it's cold out, and thugs sporting guns, tazers and gang colors are scary!!!). The officer did not like this one bit, and instructed her, and the passengers to roll the windows all the way down. I'm not fully versed in the whole request/demand/order differentiation legalese. She replied," No, sir. I'd rather not."The officer then asked why she refused. to which she replied,"Sir, I simply do not want to, and I don't think the law requires me to."....

... The officer then put's his arm in the window opening, unlocks the door, opens it, and physically takes her phone away. (she was attempting to start recording the incident on her phone.) Needless to say, this has never happened to her before, so she had an emotional break-down: She started crying and started repeating over and over,"You are violating my rights. This isn't legal."...

... The officer continued to stand in front of the door he opened until his buddies showed up(what happened to performing a "terry-frisk" for his own safety? guess he didn't think she was all that dangerous, huh?), at which point he ordered/requested/demanded that she get out of the car. To which she replied,"I'm afraid to. You just broke the law and violated my rights." So, two of them physically removed her, and cuffed her. She then started asking,"what are you doing? What crime did I commit?"...

... One of the officers that arrived later for "back-up" happened to be a female. This female officer asked if she had any weapons on her. She replied,"No. I have a pocket knife in my coat pocket." The female officer then commenced to search her person for "illegal substences", of course, and she replied,"I don't consent". The officer then said,"don't consent to what?", and continued searching her anyway. She replied,"I don't consent to you touching me in any way."(Maybe she should've used the magic word "search"? IDK)...

... After, IMO, illegal search that found nothing, they told her that they would uncuff her if she would cooperate.(ahh, that good- ol' cooperation that actually fits the dictionary definition of subordination.*scratches head*)So they uncuffed her and made her kiss the breathalyzer and and perform the familiar circus clown skit. No DUI was issued, so she must've passed, right?...

... The original officer gave her a seatbelt citation (at night? on private property? in a parking stall? how could he tell that she hadn't removed it upon parking?), and told her that he was "doing her a favor" and to go have fun in the bar.

That's the story, as I understand it. Could you guys help with the learning process, please? Any links to youtube videos, legal resources that pertain, and websites akin to "flexyourrights.org", and help get us started on all the paperwork we can file to "tie-up" the system would be greatly appreciated.

She has filed to get the official police report from the local police department. There were no dash cams present on any of the patrol cars. There are no useful recordings from her or her passengers' phones. No DUI or public intoxication charges or citations. Only a $10 seat-belt ticket, served with a side of rights trampling and mental abuse.

Anyone should feel free to post their own rants, and provide links to idea they haven't personally tested in court but we(namely she) are particularly interested in comments from those who have successfully navigated the system in similar scenarios, or have legal experience. She now believes that the non-aggression principle in gov't is the way to go, but(for obvious reasons) is still feeling hopeless and scared to death of standing her ground and "flexing her legal muscle" for her first time.

She's nervous, but anxious to get her feet wet. I am Humbly requesting items that will help us gain the knowledge necessary to give them as much hassle as legally possible, as well as items that can increase her confidence and will refute the,"What if this is all conspiracy theory B.S. and the judge puts me in jail" idea.



Trending on the Web

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

bump

.

With all due respect, I will no longer be a voting prostitute for Constitution rejecting harlots.

Thanks for the comments thus far

I am aware that flexing your rights gives you legal protection, not physical protection.

We simply want to learn what it is that we CAN do. I feel that just the knowledge gained through real world experience dealing with the system is well worth the effort.

I have a soft-spot for those that know how to submit a tree's worth of paperwork, and can get cases stretched out for hearing after hearing. I don't know why, but that stuff makes me want to pull up my kilt and scream "FREEEEEDOOOM!!!"

I'm sure a lot times the only satisfaction you can get is the mere knowledge that you were a (completely legal) nuisance, and the feeling of know that you "stuck it to 'em, even the slightest bit.

Mainly, we view this as an opportunity to learn a little more about the "justice" system, and the way they twist and contort all of those laws in which "ignorance is no excuse". Worst case, wife spends some time getting smarter, and we lose $10 on a seat belt ticket. Best case, my wife learns to keep her fear at bay and remains calm the NEXT time. Win-win with a chance to have the last laugh is an accurate description of what we're attempting.

"I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."

Totally your choice

Of course you can attempt to take down the entire system over a seatbelt ticket. I wish you luck. I simply view things for what I consider best results of actions taken.

Submitting a tree's worth of paperwork will never reach the officer(s) involved, but again, I certainly encourage you to do whatever you feel is right for yourself.

The way I would handle it is have your wife become better educated about EXACTLY how to (safely) handle herself in such situations. IMO that would keep her fear at bay. Knowledge is power. Paperwork through the court system and what cops do in the field are not the same.

Pay the ticket, file a grievance

That's your only sensible route.

LOL

I know how to tuck my tail between my legs and pay the ticket. The wife is probably better at it than I am, hehehe.

Just think about it. Every minute we make them spend addressing a $10 ticket is one less minute they can spend harassing some other poor soul!!!

"I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."

See my

tag line. It is dry, but it is what you are looking for, I promise.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Oo! Oo! Teacher! Pick me! Pick me!

Seriously, I'm the only one here saying "Here's what you are looking for." WATCH THE VIDEOS. Tonight.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Thanks, fishy. I've been

Thanks, fishy. I've been trying to find that particular link all morning!!!

... and I suppose not many people actually want to spend the time necessary to "bury them in paperwork", but I, for one, am certainly interested in this kind of adventure!!! I'm very much a "face your fears" kinda guy.

"I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."

I'm really sorry

your wife had to suffer a bit from the effects of the police state we are finding. I offer two things to consider, which may console you both. First, the police state will end when the dollar crashes. This is because the government money now funding all these agents (including local cops) will end. Of course, a concern is that the powers that be attempt martial law then, in which case all bets are off and a civil war may ensue, but either way, the police state won't simply grow unchecked. Second, even before the dollar crashes the police state may start waning, because again govt. financing is being challenged (see current fiscal fight in Washington).

I say that because your situation doesn't look good for retaliation IMO, now after the fact. You will likely spend 95% time and energy to get less than 1% of whatever you might consider victory. And in all likelihood the officer(s) involved won't change behavior one bit as a result.

The problem is your wife basically brought a slingshot and toothpicks to a sword fight.

You have to understand cops do their job EVERY DAY. They know what they can get away with, and how to handle various forms of resistance. As a citizen, yes, we as individuals are powerful, but only when we know EXACTLY which weapons we have and how to use them.

Losing examples: "I don't think the law requires me to" "I don't want to" "I don't consent to this..."

It's no wonder the cops didn't blink. They knew the person they were dealing with had no idea of what EXACTLY the cops could do and what they might be fearful of reproach for. Hence they proceeded to handle the situation as they saw fit. And if their actions are questioned later they will simply say "suspicious behavior" for justification of their probable cause. Next case.

Sorry, not trying to be unsympathetic, I am, but that's how I see it.

EDIT: to clarify, what your wife SHOULD have done (and known) is specific rights. Instead of "I don't think" or "I don't want" it has to be "the law is such and such (or there is no law)" and "I don't HAVE to, officer". The latter tells the cop you are aware of the situation and how much potential trouble you might cause them for violating your rights.

who do they bang for? what police department?

the first thing she did right was pull into a well lite area. those kind of gang members like to get you in a dark ally or someplace where they know there will be no security cameras so they can have their way with you.
once they find a peaceful victim they call the other gang members to bring more guns for intimidation purposes while they extort(ticket) you.
other than that i'm sure they're all real nice church going folks, they just like to shoot dogs and taser people for sport is all.

i have never found a good answer as to when they can pull you out of the car. i know they can search if a crime has been committed (no insurance) that requires the vehicle to be towed and they do a "inventory check" for your protection (yeah right).
not sure if they can pull you out for a speeding ticket. cops like to violate your rights so getting truthful info is tough. it may differ state to state depending on which gang territory you pass through.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

Once upon a time we had

Once upon a time we had officers of peace around these parts. I am so disheartened by all these stories. I could tell you all the acts of kindness I experienced involving the police. Those days are gone. I stuck this comment on the end because it is not relevant to the post.

"With enough of us, around the world, we’ll not just send a strong message opposing the privatization of knowledge — we’ll make it a thing of the past." ~ Aaron Swartz