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The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians

Ron Paul Revolution Radio discussed the book "The book that your church doesn't want you to read" with Santos Bonacci. According to him, the founders were not Christians. They were fleeing it at our founding.


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The god of Deism =/= the Christian God =/= Allah =/=...

The god of Deism is not the infinite, personal, all-knowing, sovereign, all-controlling, self-revelatory God of Christianity.

Charles Jackson
http://MathIsChristian.wordpress.com Also, read Ron Paul's original staff economist Gary North at http://teapartyeconomist.com/

SteveMT's picture

Respectfully don't agree.

You believe that God talks to you with words written on paper, miracles, and the testimony of others. Deists believe that God communicates by manifesting himself in the structure of the universe and nature on this planet.

The point is that God communicates with each group. There is no difference; only the route is different.

"God communicates with each group."

Is that what you mean to say? That's not a Deistic position.

Charles Jackson
http://MathIsChristian.wordpress.com Also, read Ron Paul's original staff economist Gary North at http://teapartyeconomist.com/


They were hermetists, not christians. Why did Paine pay such a heavy price?

"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity..."

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church."

God revealed it.

No philosophical problem there.

Charles Jackson
http://MathIsChristian.wordpress.com Also, read Ron Paul's original staff economist Gary North at http://teapartyeconomist.com/

What Is A Christian?

Early Usage of The Word Christian

The first recorded use of the term (or its cognates in other languages) is in the New Testament, in Acts 11:26, which states "...in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians." The second mention of the term follows in Acts 26:28, where Herod Agrippa II replies to Paul the Apostle, "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?" The third and final New Testament reference to the term is in 1 Peter 4:16, which exhorts believers, "...if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name."

Another term for Christians which appears in the New Testament is "Nazarenes" which is used by the Jewish lawyer Tertullus in Acts 24. Tertullian (Against Marcion 4:8) records that "the Jews call us Nazarenes," while around 331 AD Eusebius records that Christ was called a Nazoraean from the name Nazareth, and that in earlier centuries "Christians," were once called "Nazarenes."[8] The Hebrew equivalent of "Nazarenes", Notzrim, occurs in the Babylonian Talmud, and is still the modern Israeli Hebrew term for Christian.

All three original New Testament verses' usages reflect a derisive element in the term Christian to refer to followers of Christ who did not acknowledge the emperor of Rome.[9] The town Antioch, which is said to have given them the name Christian, had a reputation for coming up with such nicknames.[10] However Peter's apparent endorsement of the term led to its being preferred over "Nazarenes" and the term Christianoi from 1 Peter becomes the standard term in the Early Church Fathers from Ignatius and Polycarp onwards.[11]

The earliest occurrences of the term in non-Christian literature include Josephus, referring to "the tribe of Christians, so named from him;"[12] Pliny the Younger in correspondence with Trajan; and Tacitus, writing near the end of the 1st century. In the Annals he relates that "by vulgar appellation [they were] commonly called Christians"[13] and identifies Christians as Nero's scapegoats for the Great Fire of Rome.[14]

Modern Day Usage of The Word Christian

A wide range of beliefs and practices is found across the world among those who call themselves Christian. There is usually a consensus among many denominations about what defines a Christian, but disagreement does exist among some sects and denominations on a common definition of "Christianity." Philosopher Michael Martin, in his book The Case Against Christianity, evaluated three historical Christian creeds (the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed) to establish a set of basic assumptions which include belief in theism, the historicity of Jesus, the Incarnation, salvation through faith in Jesus, and Jesus as an ethical role model.

Hebrew terms

As the identification of the Messiah with Jesus is not accepted within Judaism, the Talmudic term for Christians in Hebrew is Notzrim ("Nazarenes"), originally derived from the fact that Jesus came from the village of Nazareth in Israel.[16] However, Messianic Jews are referred to in modern Hebrew as יהודים משיחיים (Yehudim Meshihi'im).

Arabic terms

In Arabic-speaking cultures, two words are commonly used for Christians: Nasrani (نصراني), plural "Nasara" (نصارى) is generally understood to be derived from Nazareth[17] through the Syriac (Aramaic); Masihi (مسيحي) means followers of the Messiah.[17][18]
Where there is a distinction, Nasrani refers to people from a Christian culture and Masihi means those with a religious faith in Jesus.[19] In some countries Nasrani tends to be used generically for non-Muslim white people.[19] Another Arabic word sometimes used for Christians, particularly in a political context, is Salibi (صليبي "Crusader") from salib (صليب "crucifix") which refers to Crusaders and has negative connotations.[18][20]

Asian terms

The Syriac term Nasrani (Nazarene) has also been attached to the Saint Thomas Christians of Kerala, India. In the Indian subcontinent, Christians call themselves "Isaai" (Hindi: ईसाई, Urdu: عیسائی‎), and are also known by this term to adherents of other religions.[21] This is related to the name they call Jesus, "Isa Masih".

In the past, the Malays used to call the Portuguese Serani from the Arabic Nasrani. Today the term Serani is used for the creole Christian community of Malaysia today.

The Chinese word is 基督徒 (pinyin: jīdū tú), literally "Christ follower." The two characters now pronounced Jīdū in Mandarin Chinese, were originally pronounced Ki-To in Cantonese as representation of Latin "Cristo." Likewise in Vietnam the same two characters read Cơ đốc, and a "follower of Christianity" is a tín đồ Cơ đốc giáo. In Japan, the term kirishitan (written in Edo period documents 吉利支丹, 切支丹, and in modern Japanese histories as キリシタン), from Portuguese cristão, referred to Roman Catholic Christians in the 16th and 17th centuries before the religion was banned by the Tokugawa shogunate. Today Christians are referred to in standard Japanese as Kuristo-kyo-to キリスト教徒, or the English-derived term kurisuchan クリスチャン. Korean still uses Kidok-kyo-do (written in hangul as 기독교도) for "Christian," though the Greek form Kurisudo 그리스도 has now replaced the old Sino-Korean Kidok for Christ himself.


They were Christians

Or Bible Believers...whatever you want to call it.



They were hermetics.


I appreciate this thread because it brings to light different views.
Religion in reality is no one elses business if they dont want it to be but those who like to speak about it, can and should anywhere and any place in this country at anytime they see fit.
Its a free country.
Of course the liberty monitors will be here soon, (oops below all ready) to chastise you for speaking on something you feel important and then scold you for being so devisive.
figures and is so typical.
they had the choice to click, did and then feel like they should monitor.
after all the devisive pathetic posts theyve written themselves, watch how they call you out!
Just watch.

and the answer is YES, the liberty monitors do the nightshift also- so dont try and slip something by these folks- THEYRE watching and noting your every syllable. even after hours they're very determined these liberty monitors- they really are.
They aim to keep the DP free! free from liberty that is.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Downvoted this divisive and irrelevant thread.


I upvoted your brilliant comment


If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

jrd3820's picture

Oh well

Doesn't really matter either way does it?

Just a word. I come on here

Just a word. I come on here and debait some of these topics for fun at times. Ive got strong opinions as do many others, lest we wouldn't be haunting a forum.

That said... this stuff is NEVER decisive to me. This stuff in no way makes me count any of you, even the ones I trade volleys with, as any less my ally in this campaign than you ever were. One of my best buddies in the cause who has done more for the cause of Liberty than any 10 people I personally know is die hard Christian, and we are always having fun having a go at each other. Debait is debait, and the free trade of ideas and the desire to dig into philosophy and hone our ability to express ourselves and debait is a good thing. New information and perspective is what brought us all to this movement anyway I imagine.

If it is the goal of anyone to try to bring divisiveness in this movement... good freaking luck. Because no matter how much petty crap we disagree on, in the end, we all come around to fight for the cause when its time.

I love christians who love liberty.

Who cares what they were,

as Thomas Jefferson once said, "Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone... I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others."

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Thank you.

Thank you for making my point. Jefferson was not a bible thumping, church attending, slave christian. He knew better. Much better than most here, for sure.

What ever God he

believed in, he did not feel a need to tell anyone, and did not feel a need to have others justify their god either. His religion was known to himself and himself alone. If my prior comment made your point, I think you are reading it wrong.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

This is a ridiculous headline

This is a ridiculous headline meant to incite division. While it is true that SOME were not Christians, many were.

What cannot be debated is that the greatest Re-founding father of all time, Ron Paul, is a Christian who will never deny that Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior.


Ron Paul 2012 - It's Almost Here!

If that is true,

then Ron Paul is wrong. I suspect that because he hardly ever talks about it, he knows what the founders truly believed. He can't touch this subject. He would lose all of you "liberty" minded people. You see?

SteveMT's picture

Since you have been here over 5 years, the question is:

Why would you post such a polarizing thread like this, especially after seeing the division that all of the previous religious threads have caused?

This issue has been discussed many times on several different threads before. Just curious why you would do something so divisive.

Truth brother.

Nothing else. If we are going to bring down the world system that we all hate, we need to know every lie that holds it up.

Yet another thread designed

to anger Christians, marginalize and split them from the liberty movement. It won't work. Besides, several of the "founders", most notably Hamilton, were bent on enslaving the common man to mercantilism. There was nothing wrong with the Articles of Confederation, the "Constitutional Convention", where they locked out the press and public and swore each other to secrecy, was nothing but a coup.
When I go to Mass tomorrow I'll pray for you, and Dr Paul and all true lovers of liberty and peace.

This post is epic

I wish everyone would give it a thumbs up so more folks can read all that phxarcher87 has given.

You should retitile your post to

The response to this post is EPIC. OP is not so amazing though. But I get what you mean


Well, I can't now because you replied to it. I do see what you meant though, and you're right, I did mean the reply and not the actual OP.

Looks like the work has been done already by

archer. :)

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

i'm going to bed now.

Knowing I am right. See you on the flip side.

let go

Let go of your anger hate and pride. You will rest much better and have a happier life. I'm going to bed too so I can go bow to Rome in the morning. ;) I honestly hope that future run ins with you can be about that which unites us.


Choosing to be delusional when the previous poster proved your thesis wrong by providing documented facts on the Founders beliefs concerning God isn't being right.

I think phxarcher87 below put

I think phxarcher87 below put oliver in his place. With all those testimonies of our founders it clearly shows that Oliver is nothing more then a TOOL.