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House GOP seeks to abolish IRS, replace income tax with consumption tax

Fifty-four House Republicans on Thursday reintroduced legislation that would terminate the IRS and replace the system of income taxes on people and corporations with a consumption tax.

The FairTax Act, from Rep. Rob Woodall (R-Ga.), would abolish the 16th Amendment, which was ratified 100 years ago this February. That amendment gives Congress the power to impose income taxes without having to spend the revenues evenly among the states.

Woodall's bill, H.R. 25, would replace the current tax system with a 23 percent consumption tax on all new goods and services. He said Thursday that this change would eliminate the need for a complicated tax code, and would be the kind of tax reform that helps reinvigorate the economy.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/275697-house-gop...



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And all of retail is "final goods."

Follow a dollar. If it was 100 beans rather than 100 pennies...
I only got 72 beans, the first 28 were with-held by my husband's employer on behalf of Soc Sec, M-Care and the IRS, with a few others.
I take my 72 beans down and buy a candy bar which is marked "69 beans" The cashier wants 73 beans. I give her my 72 beans and she grabs a bean from the "leave one take one" can. Next customer gets 69 beans change from her, what is left of my beans to circulate. That customer goes to the next shop and buys a pencil for 65 beans, which will cost them all 69 beans. Etc.
If you only count what is paid at one exchange, it is 6%. But if you actually had to take the tax out every time a dollar was taxed, it would be gone very quickly.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

OK, but I still don't see how

OK, but I still don't see how that is anything other than each person paying a 6% tax, as advertised.

It masks the true impact of the tax on the dollar

Each person pays 6% at a time, but they pay it with already taxed dollars, the dollar is taxed at earning and spending - EACH spending. It is not a "lie" that people only pay 6%, but it keeps them from realizing how much of our economy is chewed up in taxes.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

coffee_sponge's picture

Once they get their new mega-tax

they will conveniently forget to abolish the income tax. We will be stuck with both. Anyone who acknowledges reality knows this is absolutely what the dregs of our society, A.K.A. the politicians, are hoping to do.

As I recall, the last legislation I saw for the "Fair" Tax didn't do anything to repeal the income tax. Instead, it contained a platitudinous suggestion to go ahead later and do that. Yeah, right, faster than you can say "Bob's your uncle."

In addition, the regulations, loopholes, and bureaucracy a consumption tax will necessarily spawn will look amazingly vast and convoluted, just like the income tax system.

Even if we could trade one disastrous boondoggle for another (as I just explained, we can't trade, we can only add more or abolish what we have) why would we want to do that? Let's end the warfare/welfare state and shrink government back to Constitutional size.

There, problem solved! Simply put me in charge, and I'll fix it!

The FairTax itself abolishes

The FairTax itself abolishes the IRS and Internal Revenue Code, but you're right, there would have to be another Constitutional amendment passed in order to repeal the 16th amendment. I'd be willing to risk it based on my understanding of the FairTax and the ridiculous burden the income tax is on the people.

exactly my thoughts.

fully expect there to be federal sales/vat AND income tax before i'm dead.

The Law That Never Was

Any way it is looked at the Income tax is not a valid tax.
But try to present the facts in a government-employee court and you will be silenced or worse. Here is just one example.

See: The Law That Never Was: http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/

gj proposed a 23% Fair Tax rate

I didn't like it then, and still don't want it.
Eliminate the IRS and unconstitutional income tax and have the government live off the taxes allowed in the Constitution.
This has been our problem all along - the creatures in DC refuse to abide by the Constitution. It's just all so insane.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

How?

"It would be replaced with a 23 percent consumption tax that people living at or below the poverty rate would not have to pay."

How is this accomplished without retaining some sort of individual reporting system and an accompanying federal agency basically the same as the I R S?

Everyone gets a check in the

Everyone gets a check in the beginning of the year for $X dollars to cover the amount of spending taxed up and to the poverty level. Once you spend more than that, you're taxes are no longer paid for you and you have to pay them yourself. That was how GJ explained it anyway.

Stealing is not acceptable even if they dribble some of the

goods back to the victim.

sovereign

"would be the kind of tax reform that helps reinvigorate the

economy"

Keep in mind, what "reinvigorate the economy" means to a Keynesian big government type.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

"That amendment gives Congress the power to impose income taxes"

No it didn't.

The 16th Amendment, the income tax, has been the subject of many Supreme Court decisions. The IRS always cites to the Brushaber v. Union Pacific R.R. Co., 240 U.S. 1 (1916), to inform the public that the income tax was held to be constitutional by the Supreme Court. What the IRS doesn’t inform the public about Mr. Frank Brushaber, the central character in the Supreme Court case, is that he was a withholding agent for several foreign investors in the Union Pacific Railroad, acting as their fiduciary.

The Supreme Court, obviously being aware of all of the pertinent details, ruled in the Brushaber case that the federal government always had the power to tax income as an excise tax and, therefore, the 16th Amendment is constitutional.

The Supreme Court then ruled in the very next case it decided, Stanton v. Baltic Mining, 240 US 103 (1916), the following: “… that by the previous ruling it was settled that the provisions of the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged and being placed in the category of direct taxation subject to apportionment by a consideration of the sources from which the income was derived…”. The ”previous ruling” cited in the Stanton decision was referring to the Brushaber decision.

A few years later the Supreme Court again ruled upon the 16th Amendment’s effect on the federal government’s power of taxation. In Peck & Co. v. Lowe, 247 US 165 (1918), the Supreme Court stated, in part: “The Sixteenth Amendment … does not extend the taxing power to new or excepted subjects …”.

http://llstuler.wordpress.com/2009/10/24/the-constitutionthe...

Follow the cases listed and you'll see that this person is right..I personally think they know the gig is up and want to make an illegal taxation method into a legitimized method, which will give them more revenue and an easier way to adjust it.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

so what's to stop a fruit vendor

from keeping two sets of books; Sells you an apple for "10 cents" wink wink, then pockets 50 cents

RP R3VOLution

That's how they do it in

That's how they do it in Europe.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

How would

this work for the very poor and elderly?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. ~J. Swift

The feds would magnanimously

The feds would magnanimously "prebate" an amount purportedly equal to the tax on a subsistence living. Everyone in the country would automatically go on the dole.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

On the dole? Really?

On the dole? Really? Not having to pay taxes on the necessities of living at the poverty level means "on the dole"?

What fantasyland do you live in

Where in the world can you live without taxes? This is also a consumption tax, meaning you don't get taxed unless you buy goods and services i.e its voluntary for the most part

Fantasyland I live in, is a place where mindless people

do not promote extorted theft as teh means to finance their lives. A place where cowardly submitters are not to be found saying "Where in the world can you live without taxes?" as if humanity could never live without a slave master stealing from them.

Wake up are you brainwashed, stockholm syndrom. Would you be on a jury to convice me and put me in prison because I refuse what you go along with extortion and theft. oh sure you would never call it extortion or theft because that would make you into a bad person. But just call it tax and now you can promote it as your best way of life. Slaves believe that they could never live in freedome either when first given freedom. Please come out of the slave either and wish to be free no matter the difficulty or hardship. Stop promoting taxes as the way to fund your fantisy life.

sovereign

Pick one..

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hate-this-talk-about-raising...

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Yeah, anyone who voluntarily

Yeah, anyone who voluntarily chose not to buy anything at all would be off scot-free.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

Homesteaders, here we come!

Homesteaders, here we come! Practical? No. Even possible? I doubt it. LoL

This is what you call a half ass effort.

They are half right; eliminate the income tax. They are half wrong in suggesting a new tax.

Doesn't reverence for liberty require that we voluntarily fund government. There are really only two ways to for us to relate to one another; voluntarily and through force. If we create government and we agree that none of us should be able to use force against others except to defend ourselves, then how can we authorize an organization called government to do something we ourselves cannot do?

If you are drawn into the arguments about how government can best tax us, then I suggest you aren't much more than a thug yourself.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

what fantasy land do you live in

Where in the world can you live without taxes? This is also a consumption tax, meaning you don't get taxed unless you buy goods and services i.e its voluntary for the most part

There was no federal income

There was no federal income or consumption tax until 1913. Coincidentally, the US had the most rapidly growing economy in the history of the world until 1913.

Where did you receive your indoctrination?

Yous reverence for relating by force I find appalling. Ron Paul stands for dealing with human issues through free market competition, not through force. Just because thugs have managed to gain control of governments everywhere, forcing citizens to support them, does not justify what they do.

You could just as easily argue that you don't get taxed by an income tax unless you earn income, so that tax is voluntary. What sort of logic is that?

I think it is you who live a fantasy, best described as a nightmare.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Coming after us boomers

We paid income tax all our working days. Now that we are retiring, they want to keep taxing us another way.

The "prebate" of the so-called fair tax makes everyone in the country a ward of the feds. Communisim lite. Well, lite at first. Oh, and not that it matters, but it would be unconstitutional also. The 16th Amendment only allows for un-allocated taxation of incomes, not outgoes.

Piddle on the "fair tax."

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

The 16th Amendment

was not ratified be the required number of states. Philander Knox lied. He covered his co-conspirators scheme by declaring it ratified. All taxation is theft. Those behind the 16th and the Federal Reserve are traitorous thieves and should face execution.

Live Free Or Die

16th Amendment DOES NOT MATTER

The 16th Amendment is totally a moot point anyway.

2 key cases in 1916 already confirm the income tax as ONLY an excise tax. They were the Brushaber case and Stanton case.

In fact, the US Supreme Court in the Brushaber case in 1916 dealt with the 16th amendment and stated that the 16 amendment was drawn up for the purpose of doing away with the CONFUSION of how an income tax must be laid by congress. And it was said it could ONLY be applied as an excise tax. That's it.

Since it's an excise, it really has nothing to do with the average american earning his/her own domestic source monies and still rakes in a lot of revenue for the federal government when actually applied properly and as written in USC 26. So the government will still receive taxes when properly enforced upon those whom it applies.

So, arguing the ratification of the 16th is such a moot point that it's not even worth discussing since the amendment did NOT change congress's taxing power to new subjects. Simple as that!

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!