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House GOP seeks to abolish IRS, replace income tax with consumption tax

Fifty-four House Republicans on Thursday reintroduced legislation that would terminate the IRS and replace the system of income taxes on people and corporations with a consumption tax.

The FairTax Act, from Rep. Rob Woodall (R-Ga.), would abolish the 16th Amendment, which was ratified 100 years ago this February. That amendment gives Congress the power to impose income taxes without having to spend the revenues evenly among the states.

Woodall's bill, H.R. 25, would replace the current tax system with a 23 percent consumption tax on all new goods and services. He said Thursday that this change would eliminate the need for a complicated tax code, and would be the kind of tax reform that helps reinvigorate the economy.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/275697-house-gop...



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This is an attempt to make it legal to tax anyone on

on American soil, even if you'r not a government employee who is receiving pay from either local/state/federal gov't on the 1st and 15th of the month.

The IRS is called the Internal Revenue Service for a reason:

Because they are to collect income taxes from their own Internal employees who are on the government clock.

This consumption tax is an attempt to make it so they can collect taxes legally from Non-Government Employees at cash registers across the Nation. Do away with the IRS is only doing away with their ability to collect taxes from their own internal employees and legalize theft from all Americans, even if their not on the gov't clock.

We need to come up with an ID system that proves we are NOT gov't employees who are liable for this consumption tax at the cash registers across the nation.

Perhaps if this statute passes, someone who knows the con will bring a federal lawsuit against Wal-Mart when they insist on charging you the 23% consumption tax, even if you're not a US Gov't employee who's obligated to pay it.

It's BIG, Black! And it's BAD!

My company exports $3000 items to Europe and in almost every case, the Europeans ask us to make up the paperwork to reflect a much smaller total for VAT taxes.

A 23% consumpton tax here would replace the Income tax morass with a giant black market morass. The whole country will be buying stuff that fell off a truck.

The government has many different smaller taxes because if the government got all the money in one place, the people will do a workaround and the government would get peanuts.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

Hold on,

Where does the bill say the money is directly deposited? I believe that it MUST go directly to the U.S. Treasury...not the FED or IMF.

how many does the IRS employ...?

....and we're supposed to believe their jobs are being threatened....

With a federal sales tax, criminals, illegal aliens and even...

...tourists would have to pay.

Obviously people who obtain their income illegally (drug dealers, prostitutes, theft rings, mobsters etc), don't pay any income tax under our current system.

But I think 23% is excessive.

If we can't do it with 10% or less then federal spending is too much.

NOTE: I would NOT tax food, water or medical services.

AND: Any bill like this would have to make sure the IRS was DEAD with a stake through its heart so we don't end up with a federal sales tax AND an income tax - ALA Hermain Cain's "9-9-9" idea.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Tax is theft

You would tax this and that and you would be a theif.

sovereign

No.7's picture

bump. +1

.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

Advocating the elimination of

Advocating the elimination of the IRS without a concomitant reduction in the size of the federal government isn't sane. Given the political stalemate in Washington, DC, replacing the IRS with a consumption tax might be the only realistic way for the federal government to screw even more Americans, though. Good work, Republicans! ;)

Frankly, state legislatures need to step up to the plate and start reviewing every bit of legislation passed by the federal government for strict constitutionality. Since most of the laws won't pass the test, prepare for combat. Is the latter approach realistic? I'd say another civil war is the only truly effective way to correct the behavior of the federal harlot. Replacing this tax with that tax is simply a sleight of hand.

Ending fraud of the insane government is sane.

State government should step up.

But government isn't going to save the day, they just take the credit.

Government has never saved the day they just took the money. How many million of us have worked thousands of hours a year for the government. We we're cheated, we never got our moneys worth.

Free includes debt-free!

Red Herring...

1. The IRS is not a US government agency. It is an agency of the IMF (International Monetary Fund) (Diversified Metal Products v I.R.S et al.
CV-93-405E-EJE U.S.D.C.D.I., Public Law 94-564, Senate report 94-1148 pg. 5967, Reorganization Plan No. 26, Public Law 102-391)

2. The IMF (International Monetary Fund) is an agency of the U.N. (Black's Law Dictionary 6th Ed. page 816)

Dave Champion's Book "Income Tax: Shattering the Myths"

Ill chime in again with my 2 cents on this topic. I scream it from the rooftops... ALL THE INCOME TAX IS, IS JUST AN EXCISE TAX!!!

That's it. It's an excise. And ONLY can be laid as an Excise. The law painfully points this out. It gives you the when, who, how one becomes liable and here's a hint: It's NOT the average guy living and working in the private sector earning his/her own domestic source money! (Albeit the law does this in a very confusing and obfuscating way, INTENTIONALLY!)

Simple. Example: Johnny smith who works for company X claims joey Johnson who wants a job at company X is required to sign a W4 form to get the job. Except that's NOT TRUE and Johnny Smith has NEVER READ ONE WORD of the law to even determine WHO is supposed to use that federal tax form and under what circumstances. Also, Johnny smith has NO idea that the income tax is an excise and doubly has no idea as to what an excise even is! Johnny smith is ONLY doing what he was told to do by the company who he works for and ALSO of which nobody there has actually ever read the law to determine the lawful and proper use of the forms W4 and/or W9. Hence lots and lots of ignorant people doing absolutely insane things like FORCING SOMEONE TO SIGN A W4 OR W9 (depending on the circumstances) UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY NO LESS to make a living and get paid! LAWFULLY!

The income tax is a legitimate tax, and W-4's and W-9's do have a specific purpose for each respective form, but that purpose HAS NOTHING to do with mostly all Americans.

So, since the income tax is an excise, and has NOTHING to do with what im doing anyway, WHY WOULD I WANT in effect, a sales tax???? Odd, odd unless you actually know there is a FRAUD SO GIGANTIC that it practically DWARFS All frauds before it! And that would be the MISAPPLICATION OF THE INCOME TAX! Let me rephrase that, the CRIMINAL misapplication of the income tax upon most people who don't have any clue as to who it actually really applies to because they were TOLD certain things and decided NEVER to verify if those CERTAIN things were ACTUALLY VALID and or TRUE!

all the talk about the income tax being the most sinister tax, yada yada yada, doesn't change the fact of what it is... an EXCISE.

So, if we ALL want to solve the government spending problems. Let's all learn what the income tax is, what it isn't, who it applies to and under what circumstances by reading the actual statutes and regulations and then once most people realize that they have been duped into signing W4's and W9's when in reality those forms, although legitimate for other purposes, had nothing to do with the average American, then we will be able to SOLVE the Federal Reserve issue, the money spending issue and a lot of the Liberty issue all with one stone!

Again, the BEST resource for this would be Dave Champion's book "Income Tax: Shattering the Myths"

I'm thinking about starting a thread dedicated to the topic of what the income tax actually is. Also, as a side note, the ObamaCare bull will be enforced through the Income tax, what a coinkidink!!! Better learn who it actually applies to.

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!

I'd like to see a summary ...

... and also let us know if anyone has used his ideas in court and won -- or even gotten a potential legal threat to go away by using the ideas.

The judicial system is so currupt now, that even evidence and law do not matter when the government is on one side of a legal dispute.

Here's some of the book "Income Tax: Shattering the Myths"

Here you go. Some of the book i am talking about with sample pages: Enjoy....

http://www.taxrevolt.us/media/inside_the_cover.pdf

The normal website is www.taxrevolt.us

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!

About the author Dave Champion....

Visit http://www.davechampionshow.com/media/031113868464.pdf for the injunction against Dave where he disects it piece by piece. He has had a radio show for almost 10 years and now as a TV show that you can view in the archives here... http://www.davechampionshow.com/archives/?cat=1,6

If anyone is looking to the Federal Government to correct this fraud, they are looking in the wrong place.

As far as cases go. Pretty much it all starts with W2's and 1099's. It's the reporting process that begins all the shenanigans. Stop the reporting and you effectively stop the fraud.

Reporting is legitimate when income that is subject to the tax is reported but reporting becomes ILLEGITIMATE when it's reporting income that has NOTHING to do with the income tax.

Prosecution in almost all court cases related to federal or state income taxes usually involve defendants who have outstanding W2's and 1099's.

Reverse logic, if there is no reporting and hence no outstanding W2's or 1099's, then there's nothing to prosecute on.

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!

Part of the problem is the judiciary but...

People tend to argue for what is right instead of making a federal case of their rights.

Free includes debt-free!

IRS MUST Be Eliminated

As you wrote, the IRS has been used in a manner that is totally inappropriate. No one has been successful in stopping them through the courts, regardless of the laws.

And, with Obama Care, the IRS will be tougher and more powerful.

Only half of the country pays taxes under the IRS system and the freeloaders do NOT care about the other people who are paying the bills. The IRS put Obama back into the White House and the IRS will keep him there for six more terms.

Without the IRS, wealth distribution will not be as easy.

Fair Tax would eliminate the IRS and would force the country to eliminate the Sixteenth Amendment. It does not matter if the IRS and the Sixteen Amendment are Constitutional or not - they are being used as a tool.

I wrote a DP article last year on the need to eliminate the IRS and Sixteenth Amendment and why Fairtax is the only vehicle available to do it. It got voted down, but it is valid regardless of the down votes.

I am supporting this new legislation because it would not only eliminate the IRS, it would make the country aware enough of government waste that it will become politically possible to cut the budget. Without Fair Tax enacted first, you can forget about any budget cuts - no one has a politically acceptable solution to cut it.

http://www.dailypaul.com/257802/the-fair-tax-would-be-good-f...

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

I agree

I would see this as a baby step toward a more sane government, at least.
Without the payroll taxes that a manufacturer collects, his costs are reduced, and presumably, he will reduce his prices as well. If his prices can reduce by at least the 23% of the flat tax, the prices remain flat.

I also see this as a strengthening of the free market. If manufacturer’s costs are reduced more than 23% they can pass this reduction on to the consumer or increase his profit margin.

The danger would be a more intrusive government to manage it, or in letting it stand as a final compromise. The goal should be an overall reduction and possible elimination of the tax.

I love idealists, but I fear idealism is young soul’s game. ;)

Just open the box and see

What makes you think ...

... there wouldn't be BOTH an income tax AND a national sales tax, similar to most of Europe?

Tommy - You are Correct - We Will Get Both

Tommy,

Great point!!!

Guaranteed. We will get BOTH - a sales tax AND our current IRS taxes. But there is a chance to stop them with legislation that eliminates the IRS and the Sixteenth Amendment.

That is why it is critical to put this legislation on the front burner.

True, there is no guarantee that it will pass, but the alternative is to just watch them.

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

Read my post below ...

... it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for just ONE bill in Congress to BOTH repeal the 16th Amendment AND institute a national sales tax to replace the income tax.

Repealing or adding a new law is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT process than amending the Constitution.

In fact, HR 25 (from 2009) was a SEPARATE BILL from HR 16. One was to institute the new tax and the other was to amend the Constitution.

Do you REALLY think the current Congress will actually do BOTH?

Won't they instead play the same stupid game they've been playing all along to say that if we just pass this one little old law NOW ... they will get around the the constitutional amendment thingy LATER???

That is how they operate. That is reality, not fantasy.

DO NOT FALL FOR IT, MI AMIGO!

Thanks, Tommy, You Are Correct!!!

Tommy, I have no plans to buy it. Instead, I am selling it, just as I was selling Ron Paul in the past.

We have to get rid of the IRS.

As you wrote, you cannot solve this problem with one bill. And it will NOT happen under our current legislative make-up. A separate bill to eliminate the sixteenth amendment will never go anywhere. A separate bill to eliminate the IRS will go nowhere.

That is why we need Fair Tax.

FT would require separate legislative activity to eliminate the sixteenth for the Fair Tax to remain in effect. If the sixteenth is not eliminated, Fair Tax would make it illegal to have both taxes.

Without Fair Tax, they will give us both taxes...guaranteed.

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

and like most US states

That is what others have proposed and that is the worst possible thing that could happen. I would only support a Federal sales tax if they got rid of the federal income tax.

are you paying income taxes?

have you signed a W4 or W9? Do you file the 1040?

No. I do NOT sign those forms. And i make a great living!

No. I do NOT sign those forms. And i make a great living!

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!

Like I would trust the GOP in any way shape or form

I won't even wast my to to read.

"A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote to keep things the same", Buckminster Fuller..
A choice for liberty is always a choice for liberty.

This is awesome

I don't buy a lot of new stuff anyway. LOL. If it is above 10-12% there will be a fantastic black market.

The IRS Has Caused a Huge Black Market

Somewhere between 25% and 75% of our economy is part of a black market today. Drug dealers do not pay income taxes, illegal aliens do not pay income taxes, thieves do not pay taxes on income, and many cash businesses do not pay IRS taxes. Then there are the 49% that do not have to pay taxes under the IRS enforced definition of income.

The huge IRS black market would go away with a national sales tax. Everyone needing to buy food, clothing, or shelter could not possibly work under the table to the extent that is done with the IRS. Then there are the "loopholes" and tax cheaters. And it goes on and on. A national sales tax is the only solution based on over thirty five years of consumer supported studies on the issue.

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

We have more of a spending problem than a tax problem...

..and the Fed will just keep printing money.
23% also is extremely high... what about 0%? Start with cutting the military 'offense' budget and you can easily achieve that.

9-11 Media Fakery: Did anyone die on 9-11?
http://www.cluesforum.info/

http://www.septemberclues.info/

9-11 Actors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aPvJSQtmoE

Pysops.. media.. actors.. propagandists... disinfo agents.. fake videos.. fake photos

no no NO

"Mr. Speaker, no tax was ever more unjust, in my opinion, than a tax upon consumption, for all must eat to live, all must wear clothes, and when you place a tax upon what it takes to sustain one(self), you announce the doctrine that all men share alike in the blessings of government, that all men prosper equally. But we have only to look about us to see how false this doctrine of taxation is. A tax upon what some people eat and what they wear would deny them the necessities of life, while others, rolling in opulence and accumulation their wealth into the millions, would not feel such a tax." Rep Ollie James 44 Conc. Rec. 4398 (1909)

Why would ANYONE want a VAT? Not only are they deflating our currency making everything more expensive, but then they are going to charge an extra 23% for items purchased. This is just another way to keep poor people poor. I remember reading in the paper about the VAT the Aussie govt was implementing - I remember this because of the ridiculousness of it. The article was about items that would be 'exempt' from their VAT. Men's razors would be exempt because men needed to shave but women's razors would have the tax - apparently Aussies like their women hairy. But really, all women would have to do was buy 'men's razors' (what's the difference? They don't come in pink?) I don't know if this was ever resolved. But immediately, the light was shone on the discrimating nature of the tax.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

This is not a VAT

more like a sales tax