22 votes

Let's have a discussion about Police Officers

There is much prejudice and hate in this world, for many groups of people, and cops are right near the top of this group. We have all seen or experienced "bad" cops. There are numerous videos of police brutality. It is a real problem. It is natural to dislike or fear people who have power, especially when they abuse it.

There seems to be a general dislike for cops around here. Personally, it concerns me because if I were a cop, and I was just on the brink of waking up to the liberty message, why would I spend my time here reading post after post about how terrible of a person I am? Cops also have to deal with the reality of bad cops, who give all cops a bad name. But at the end of the day, we NEED them to be on our side. We need them to be a part of this movement. Think of all the good they could do!

Wouldn't it be amazing if most police officers were Oathkeepers? How can we welcome them to our team with this kind of attitude towards them?

I would like the discussion to be geared towards perhaps finding a common ground with officers. They have just as much at stake as we do in this battle for getting our country back. What can we personally do to integrate more of them into liberty ideas?



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Police are nothing more than the "muscle"

that the courts use to facilitate their money grabbing system. In my locality we have experienced an influx of relocating individuals from NY and Phila. Accompanying this has been an incremental increase in drug crimes and the associated violence which, unfortunately, seems to follow these individuals where ever they go. Now when they are arrested and tried the courts impose sentence including very stiff fines. Guess how many pay? In response to the system being over worked and not receiving most of the fines imposed to fund their racket, the courts have had the police widen their nets in search of individuals who are able to be forced to pay their extortion, particularly homeowners. If this causes a cop to stretch the truth at first to enable a highway stop, so be it. I've repeatedly been witness to what begins as a stretching of the truth become full blown perjury, which the cop believes is necessary to protect his job. The judges, prosecutors and even the defense lawyers are in it all together. I speak from intimate experience.

There are no politicians or bankers in foxholes.

My Take...

A majority of what they do is enforcing drug laws against peaceful people. Most cops from my understanding of talking with them support the legalization of marijuana at the very least. When they tell me that such a large percentage of them know in their hearts that the prohibition of pot is a bad law I ask them why they continue to arrest peaceful people over pot. I tell them that yes we need law enforcement but that their enforcement of these laws are turning the purpose of the existence of law enforcement on it's head. I tell them that instead of using force/coercion as a defensive force to defend people's rights they're initiating a act of aggression which is immoral. I usually then mention that the non aggression principal is the first thing we teach children when they start interacting with others. When a kid starts playing with other kids we tell them to keep their hands to their selves but that if someone tries to hurt them that it's ok to put their hands up and defend themselves. I ask why they can't just listen to one of the first things that their parents taught them. My final comments to them is that they're only morally justified to use force against people who victimize others or their property. It's hard for them to disagree. I've never had a response other than silence. If they could refute they would but they can't so they don't even try.

Lobbing disrespect will get us nowhere with them. Their is still a person under that uniform. That person has a brain and a conscience. Most of them want to do something good in the world while collecting that government check. Make them think. It's the only way we gain ground with them. Disrespect will only embolden and entrench them into believing the broken logic that most have been fed since they were kids by their schools and the media.

Mentioning that following orders and mindlessly enforcing laws isn't a justifiable excuse for the simple reason that almost everyone knows that the people passing those laws are doing so because they're in the pocket of special interests. Tell them that we live in a age where a child can take a hour and find out that the reasons that these laws were passed are blatantly not for any other purpose but to serve said special interests.

Do good bankers exist?

For me, a 'good' banker would listen to those who explain how the financial system is rigged and would then be compelled to fix their portion of it and continually expand their influence to fix even more. They would not do what has been my experience - that they ignore the facts and laugh off the crazy nutjob theory that has been presented to them, continuing to profit handsomely from it. For this reason and IMHO, there are no 'good' bankers.

Why should I judge the cops any different? Have we heard of any that go after the corrupt ones, except for maybe Dormer?

I don't have any problem with

I don't have any problem with the cops in my small town. The one time I was driving and got stopped by a cop he told me one of my brake lights was out. There was no ticket. That is a legitimate safety issue, I fixed it.

They Probably Know

that most of the bashing here is true. If they don't want to be bashed they shouldn't go with the flow of oppression!

skippy

Skippy

I think Jackie's point is the word "they"

So I ask. Who are "they?"

Every single police in every single town in every single department?

Or do a few bad apples spoil the reputation of many?

I think it is a question that should be answered. Perhaps we should figure out exactly who "they" are so that we know the good from the bad.

Generally Speaking

most cops are predators who's jobs it is to raise money for whatever city or county they work for. I have seen WAY too much of it first hand. They TRY to find reasons to fine you or arrest you. Why do you think cops hide behind buildings and trees at the bottom of a hill waiting for someone to go too fast? (thanks to the hill? I seriously doubt it's to serve and protect.

skippy

Oh, I think that is so the local tax payers don't have to foot

the bill to have a police officer in their town...

Yah, I got pulled over on one of those crazy hills. First of all, my husband and I had just had words. We had been driving for 10 hours in a rented Metro WITHOUT cruise control, and I got pulled over for going down a hill too fast.

I wasn't a happy camper.

Speaking of hills, there is a hill in the town up the road from us. The speed limit used to change to a lower number at the bottom of the hill and the cops used to wait at the bottom to pull people over...Now the speed limit doesn't change, but it is still a hide out. All the locals know to go the correct speed at the bottom of the hill...I guess that gets back to my first comment about who foots the bill to have a police officer in their town.

:)

The opposite from all I've ever seen

It's the many spoiling the reputation of the few from what I have noticed. Plus, the ones I've known who weren't bad usually did absolutely nothing to stand up to those who were. Of course, they were usually outnumbered and they wanted to keep their jobs so they just looked the other way.

So, while some cops might not be awful, I've seen very little indication that very many of them are willing to make any kind of waves to change things. In fact, the few I know who did stand up got so much trouble from it, they eventually quit or were fired.

So what's the answer? Is it better that they stand up and lose their jobs or stay and look the other way? I don't know the answer to that one, but I know that I have very little respect for any of them.

Maybe that is the meaning of a few bad apples spoiling?

Rotton apples spread rot until the whole is rotten. Turning the other way to keep one's job is the beginning of rot, IMO. To me it is no different than taking a bribe? Shut up and you can keep your paycheck.

Thanks for your comment. It made me more fully consider mine.

:)

While there are some good cops, the majority do not.........

.......hesitate to violate numerous laws in order to arrest people for perceived violations.

I had the cops peeking in my window one night and even though the Supreme Court has specifically stated that is illegal for police to do, my lawyer says I will probably lose in court if I contest the arrest.

Our current criminal justice system is about the most hypocritical institution in the history of the world. It is run the same way that confidence swindlers operate.

I agree

which is why I think we need to change it. I was pleasantly surprised to see how many Sheriff's stood up to the gun law talk. It's a good start.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

My experience

I am blessed to live in a community, where I like the Cheif of police and sheriff very much. I like who they hire, I approve of the job they do, respect them as fair, even though, we have situations here than I don't agree with them, I can seperate my issue from them. Mistakes happen.. protocol shapes situations that doesn't alwasys work with the community, IMO, but in general, I am very blessed and appreciative to have every one of the people who work on the police, sheriff and first responders.

Our Sheriff, Tom Allman is an oathkeeper. Matter of fact, the surrounding counties sheriffs are as well, and so are many of the officers they hired. They are active, show up and participate in tes party and oath keeper events.

What I see is the more mature belong to this group..

It appears they do not evangelize oathkeepers within, but stand by example, so for this, again, I feel blessed because good leadership influences the younger to think for themselves and take personal responsibility, rather than mentoring on a personal level, which starts corruption.

I have

a relative who is a cop. He does not speak up or out against what they do. He does NOT act like those other cops and only does what he does to put food on the table.
The good thing is, when I tell my relatives about how bad cops are, he is there to back me up. Now I don't seem so crazy.... Wait, yes I do.

Ron brought the Liberty movement together, Rand is expanding the crap out of it! :)

C_T_CZ's picture

Disarm The Police

I read this article and at first I thought it was crazy, but then in reflection I understand and tend to agree with many of the points.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north198.html

Perhaps this article can help augment the ongoing discussion about the police & abuse of power.

Proclaim LIBERTY throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof

It's Not That Police Are Bad People, Per Se

It is their drone-like actions are deterimental to freedom and liberty soley because they are the enforcers of so many oppressive codes and "laws" that have absolutely NOTHING to do with serving and protecting. The police, in nearly everyone of my experiences with them and there have been plenty, are constantly looking for some reason to either arrest me or dig into my wallet and time for actions that have harmed no property or person.

There are plenty of good people that join the force, but somehow they have been conditioned to treat every person as s suspect of some sort of henious crime in the name of protecting ourselves from ourselves. Whether it is the "drunk-driver" checkpoints, safey checkpoints, speeding stops, taillight being out stops, window tinting stops, etc. It is constant.

At the end of the day, this video really shows the reason why people like the fire department and are not too fond of the police.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgaFSsM6l7Y

Fire Fighter to Police Officer, "Did you ever think they see you as a jackass pirate that's always looking to take money out of their wallet? Most of your day consists of driving around and attempting to catch what I call code-breakers. If the police would just act more like the fire department they might be more accepted and liked. For instance, we do not come out unless we are called. Do you see our asses driving around 24 hours a day looking for fires? No."

ecorob's picture

OK.

Boston police/martial law = British redcoats = nazi thugs.

What say you?

Please don't insult our intelligence by saying that these buffoons weren't actually "real" cops. They were.

You sticking up for that?

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Cyril's picture

On the topic I found myself sharing essentially the same views

On the topic - "good cops" vs. "bad cops" - and our perception of them, I've found myself sharing essentially the same views as this guy I enjoy reading once in a while:

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=message_to_cops

He put it better than I ever could. I'm jealous now.

On a totally unrelated subject (or is it?! ;) he also wrote this, that I loved finding on his web, too:

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=math

I don't mind people ranting. When they have something to say.

:)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

bump

..

The proper way for a good cop to deal with a bad cop is to put

the bad cop under arrest and see to it he goes to prison for his crimes and never serves as an officer again - anywhere.

Otherwise, what good is the "good cop" if he'll do nothing to even protect the People from the bad cops?

For evil to triumph it doesn't take good men to do nothing. If evil triumphs, it means there are no good men left. Because good men who do nothing in the face of evil, are not good men.

A "good cop" who tolerates bad cops is a bad cop

in other words.

deacon's picture

why does this post read like it's our fault?

i have done nothing to any law enforcement,or anyone
else for that matter
if they want welcomed in,maybe they should try posting
or showing some good they have done
post after post here is very critical of them,this needs to change for anything to get better
how did it get so bad?
i have read one comment about it is not the cops faults,but the ones who set up the laws?
if there are bad laws in place, is it not up to the cop to disregard
them?
the good ones could do damage control for the bad ones,all most people
see,or seem to come in contact with are the bad cops
do you have a website
could you all post here anything to stop the separation?
we are indeed in this together,we can work together,and make a better life for involved,or we can go head to head like we have been doing,but does this really solve anything?
i have never come in contact with a good cop,i know they are out there,just haven't seen any
and the ones i came into contact with acted like i was scum of the earth
I've had them lie,falsify reports,and lie in court,i know this is not the norm,but after while it does leave a very bad taste in your mouth,and it does change your outlook about them
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

ecorob's picture

exacty, deacon...

This was also my first thought. Why the hell are we defending our actions of calling out bad cops?

I've come into contact with ONE good cop in the last 30 years. COUNTLESS bad ones. Thugs, liars in court, etc.

Jackie, below, is married to octobox. Both cop lovers and lovers of tyranny. I consider their source and discount most everything they say. They will always defend cops. No matter how tyrannical, thugish, or ignorant.

The fact that BAD cops, the multitudes of them, NEVER get prosecuted for their satanic deeds tells me all I need to know about so-called "good" cops. There are none! Because as soon as they stand up they are drummed out of the FORCE.

End of story.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Did you just say I am

married to Octobox? Your assumptions are asinine and your mind is closed. As usual you have nothing to say that is constructive at all.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

Hold up.

You say, "if they want welcomed in, maybe they should try posting
or showing some good they have done"

SERIOUSLY? So how can YOU justify yourself being here? You want in this movement? Show something good you have done!

LOL

Last I checked, the liberty movement is for all people, and they don't need to demonstrate their good qualities to help fight for freedom. This particular website is an AMAZING place (at times) for people to come and learn what all the fuss is about, what we stand for and what we won't stand for. I don't care if you are good or bad, I will stand beside you to get our country back, and you don't have to prove a damn thing to me. Do you get that or no?

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

deacon's picture

i was drawing off your post

asking how we can join together, a way to stop all the cop bashing
isn't that what you were asking for?
people need to see the other side,not just the one we see
now
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

sharkhearted's picture

BRAVO on this post.

Thank you!

~

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

by the way.. did you guys

by the way.. did you guys read the story about the idiot cop who shot a huge bull elk in boulder a few days ago.. what a moron. I find myself hating the cops more and more. A good friend of mine retired a major in the highway patrol, I have done numerous projects for many of the Colorado state patrol. The CSP seems to be very different from the idiot city cops we have in and around denver. Shooting elk, killing peoples dogs for no reason. The City cops suck.

Silence is consent.

If "good" officers say nothing about wrongs performed by "bad" cops then they are giving their consent. If they stand back and allow people to be beaten and/or killed by "bad" cops, they are just as guilty as those committing the crimes.

Formerly rprevolutionist