7 votes

Tax Tip: Start Charging The IRS and any Gov't Agency an Hourly Rate for Filing Their Paperwork and Returns:

You people who are still stuck in the free man on the land; I'm not a US citizen; I'm not a 'person, corporation, dog house, or pretzel' mentality, maybe you should back away from all the BS you've learned and take a much more logical and sensible approach when it comes to dealing with the people who are stealing your money.

Are you tired of busting your ass to file those 1040 tax returns every year, and doing it for FREE? ........ Remember people, your time is not free; scurrying around to file paperwork for the gov't; keeping track of records and receipts; collecting sales tax from YOUR customers to give to the gov't who has no skin in the game when it comes to YOUR business, etc. takes time away from your ability to make a living for yourself and your family.

The Income Tax filings are a year to year thing; they are NOT indefinite and have to be updated yearly. They need your signature on that 1040 or other tax papers to legitimize their collection efforts against you.

They want you to take time away from your job; take time away from your family; hustle around to gather paperwork for THEM; make trips to the post office to file THEIR paperwork? Collect sales taxes for THEM? Have you considered charging them for your time? What is your time worth? What is your sanity worth? What is your fuel, paperwork and stamps worth?

These people have 'presumed' you into an employment position within THEIR corporation, but are conveniently forgetting to pay you for your time. Pretty neat little trick, eh?

Don't you wish you could sucker your idiot neighbors into running all your errands and paying you a union fee to be a member of your corporation, and conveniently forget to pay them for their time?

Better wake up folks, and this goes for those of you who are self employed as well. Personally I charge $1,500.00 per/hour to file gov't forms such as 1040's, with a 6 hour minimum per piece of paper (got be careful and take your time with this stuff :) I also demand payment up front since their corporation is bankrupt and they cannot be trusted to pay their bills.

If you're running around busting your ass to file THEIR gov't forms; jumping through hoops to comply with THEIR demands, and you aren't charging them for your time, whenever you get done working for them for FREE, swing by my house, I've got a shit load of stuff you can do around here too, since you apparently haven't enough self worth to charge for your time.

Your local/state/federal so called gov't are nothing more than bankrupt corporations; they are NOT your Masters; they are not who you think they are, and their only perceived power comes from presumptions. One of those presumptions is that you are one of their employees, and if you aren't smart enough to rebut that presumption, especially after all you've learned up to this point, then you deserve every single ass reaming you get.

Trust me, when you put these conditions on these scumbags, they all of a sudden don't care to do business with you anymore. They like to prey on the sheep who fall in line and jump through hoops; they don't want ANYTHING to do with people who know the con and are working to expose it.

Deprogram yourself and start charging them for you time; you are entitled to be paid for you time, just as those in gov't are. If you don't rebut their presumptions though, they will run wild with them and try to enforce their own internal statutes on you.

You people want to put gov't back in it's box? Then start charging them for your time. Once they've got to start writing out checks to EVERYONE they've presumed into an employment position within their bankrupt corporation, they won't want to play anymore; it's really as simple as this, really, it is.

Listen to this show; it starts off slow for a few minutes before Dean Clifford comes on, but it gets really good - really fast.


Then go to this page and listen to Dean's other radio appearances to get yourself up to speed and help wrap your mind around the simplicity of this mess:


Editors Note:

Local/State/Federal so called Government is nothing more than bankrupt corporations masquerading as legitimate government bodies. They have simply presumed every single American on this land mass into an employment position within their bankrupt corporation, and are coercing you into abiding by their own internal statutory rules-regulations, and tax codes.

If you aren't receiving a government check on the 1st and 15th of the month like all other gov't employees, and they have no employment contract on file that you've signed; no payroll records that would prove you are in some way obligated to abide by their own internal rules/codes/statutes, tell them to kiss your A$$ and start charging them for you time.

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wolfe's picture

Here's how this works.

And I have been through this several times.

The IRS pays no attention to non-filers for the first 3 years. At the end of the third year, if anyone has produced documents against you to the IRS (i.e. W2, 1099, etc. in a sufficient amount) then the IRS will notify you, in writing that you are required to file by a given date, and if not, they will file for you (for that first of the 3 years).

If you owe nothing after that process, you will never hear from them again on that year.

If however you do owe money, if it is a sufficient amount (>$25k) or have otherwise pissed them off, they will fast track your debt. Being "fast tracked" means that they notice in about a year. Then it takes another year or two for your information to work it's way through the system. Once that finally happens, they will start issuing judgments, attachments, etc. If you owe under $25k after all of that it can take up to or greater than 10 years for them to finally bother with you.

Now during that entire time, they are racking up fines, penalties and fees.

To say that your system works because you haven't heard from them is ridiculous. It is most likely that you do not owe anything, or do not owe a sufficient amount -yet-.

They will come calling, they always do.

Also, there is no real requirement to file by April 15th if you don't owe money, or if you are owed money. That deadline is a payment deadline which most people don't understand.

There are many people, me ex-wife included that think they are free and clear because they never heard from the IRS. Until the year that they decided to bother with her of course.

My personal experiences are more complex than my ex-wife's and have given me more detailed information about IRS behavior. I employed a tax law firm for 5 years to clean up the mess that they caused me.

Good luck with your scam, but I truly hope that no one takes you seriously unless they don't mind having their lives wrecked by the largest extortion racket in all of history.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

To bad you and your ex-wife don't know the Law.

If we go to USC Title 26 ss 6331 and read Section A, we get this:

Excerpt: " Levy may be made upon the accrued salary or wages of any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia, by serving a notice of levy on the employer (as defined in section 3401(d)) of such officer, employee, or elected official."

Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6331

When they send the bank a notice of levy, they always somehow seem to conveniently leave out Section A, but are sure quick to point out Section B to employers and banking officers to trick them into permission to levy against you.

Now ask yourself;

Are YOU an officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia?

If you're not, and they are charging you a tax on your income, don't we have labor dispute here? Um, I haven't received my government check yet, have you? I mean it says right there in their very own code, that they may Levy wages of officers, employees, etc. of the United States, the District of Columbia, etc. which is fine IF you're an officer, employee, etc. of that Corp/Territory.

Your 1st mistake was: Employing a tax law firm. When you did that, you became a ward of the state; unable to challenge jurisdiction; an imbecile and child of unsound mind - Corpus Juris Secundum

Your 2nd mistake was: Not studying and knowing the Law.

You said:

"Good luck with your scam, but I truly hope that no one takes you seriously unless they don't mind having their lives wrecked by the largest extortion racket in all of history."

Keep munching that purple grass like all the other sheep - Munch-munch-munch ... Mmmmmmmmmm, these internal statutes I'm not obligated to abide by taste like ice cream ... Munch-munch-munch - Baaaa-aaaa.

While you're here distorting facts and fear mongering, how about you answer the Million Dollar Question:

"What's the One Document, either local/state/federal gov't has in their possession that would contractually obligate anyone other than gov't employees and elected officials (who ARE receiving pay and benefits to abide by those internal statues and tax codes (ie: Title 1 - Title 50 US Code), to abide by those internal-statutory rules and tax codes, AND obligate us to do it for free - without pay and benefits of our own?"

Lets stop with the fear mongering and get down to the nuts and bolts of the argument, shall we?

BMWJIM's picture

The South and Vinceableworld, Your posts are NOT being

ignored nor avoided. The knowledge you are trying to impart is vast and most of us are not that quick of a study.

I personally have been following you both(and many others, which may be YOU) for quite some time, and still don't know if I will ever know enough to take the plunge. What you are asking is jumping into an abyss with no guard rails(LIMITED KNOWLEDGE). I accept this but, you must also move with more deliberation and at a slower pace for I nor will many other 50+ individuals do anything without much study!

I am trying to catch up but you are trying to force me to do much when I can't do anything other than make a living. Hell Guys, I'm still following you from long ago! Can I ever catch up! I don't freaking know!


1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.


I personally believe that when push comes to shove, TPTB will do as they please, laws be damned. This has been demonstrated time and again each and every day for many years.

That said, I'd still like to learn more about the subject. At the very least, I walk away with a few more facts and figures to use in future debates.

A signature used to be here!

Thank You for your civility and gratitude.

I understand your fears; been there myself, as have many others fighting this fight. The only thing they have is fear and lies; deception and obfuscation ... Smoke Screens and Lies, and of course Assclowns and gov't trolls who are paid shills, sent to forums like this to instill fear and doubt into anyone who might be seeking remedy.

Ignore the Assclowns; they have nothing of significance to add; they offer no remedy; they offer no points of view or evidence to the contrary; they are Assclowns, period.

The one thing the establishment fears is a well educated and motivate people who've caught onto their con and are willing to act on it.

If I was to give anyone some sound-solid advice, that would help build up your courage and understanding, I'd say read this post and watch the seminars as I have laid them out, in that order precisely:


The entire system is set up as a Trust from your birth. The courts operate in Trust/Estate/Probate Law; their only real teeth and sword is the Art of Presumption. That is it in a nutshell my friend.

They presume you owe the tax; they presume you are obligated to abide by their own internal statutes, and they presume to have some Magic Fairy Dust they've sprinkled on you that forever ties a chain around your neck.

If you don't rebut their presumptions, those presumptions stand as Law, it's really that simple.

They presume you're liable for an Income Tax, and it's up to you to rebut that presumption and make them prove up their claim.

Either they can, or they cannot.

If they can, you pay the Piper. If they can't, they pound sand.

Watch the seminars; Dean Clifford's information is the cream of the crop; he's spot on with his efforts and understanding; he's spot on with his teachings and practices.

If I tell you that you owe me $200 for mowing your grass via an affidavit, and you fail to rebut my presumption, guess what?

In a court of law, you will owe me $200, because silence is acquiescence, and failure to rebut, means you must agree, and if two parties agree, it is now law.

This is not difficult to learn, but you must put the time in watching the seminars and asking questions in threads like this.

You can do it; we all can do it; some of us are already doing it, and we are going to win this battle, mark my words.

Edit: I would also stay on top of Rod Class' AIB Radio shows. Sometimes he has one or two a week that are live, and sometimes he only does private recordings you can listen to that have been archived. Rod teaches you how to beat them with their own codes and statutes, while Dean teaches you to avoid them altogether because they simply do not apply to you.

It would be well advised to know this information from both ends of the equation, knowing it from both sides of the equation is just that much more ammunition you have in your arsenal to combat this world of presumptions we are living in.

Here's Rod's talkshoe link:


Scroll down the page and you'll see all the archived shows; you can click on the orange listen button and a pop up player will appear.

Here is Dean Clifford's new website; it is in development, so things are being added regularly. If you make a small donation, you will have access to the forums; that is up to you. But his seminars are on this site:


Just consider my posts anecdotal :

Here's a touch on unpublished opinions.

California Court Opinions:
California Rules of Court Rule 8.1115 states that A...an opinion of a California Court of Appeal or superior court appellate division that is not certified for publication or ordered published must not be cited or relied on by a court or a party in any other action,@ with certain limited exceptions,
* * *

So we see that not everything in legal land ends up readily available where others may gain insight.

This is where Rod Class pulled a fast one on the court system.

When he receives Proof of Service on any of his filings, the papers get posted on-line. When he receives an Answer, it gets posted. There's a record. If something is gaged later in court, the action is already up. Doesn't matter if records are sealed. Everything preceding is already up. Doesn't matter if the action is withdrawn and disappears entirely from the available records, its already up.

Best part is this is all done by volunteers. And most of his materials are hosted off shore as well as on. Rod doesn't maintain a site. No judge can seize a domain that doesn't exist. They can't order and threaten him to remove web postings because it is beyond his control in the first place.

That's a slick tactic. And original AFAIK.

Using your brain. That's what this is all about.

The Constitution is a Trust : http://www.The-Legacy.Info

Indeed he has, and indeed, he is a HUGE thorn in

the court systems side. They have tried every maneuver they can to twist, hide, obfuscate the truth. They've even tried to pull a fast one and move his paperwork to the jurisdiction of another court, and he grabs them by the short and drags them back into the ring for another round. It's actually hilarious watching these court cases he's involved in.

Everyone should start using this tactic of his; then we'd have a lot more sound black ink on white paper to show the sheep who need "proof" before they MAN up and try it themselves.

Good post!

This is a Public Challenge to Anyone Reading:

I've presented you with information above. It may or may not be valid, but I'm still here; am not in jail, and have yet to hear back from the IRS or any Gov't agency for many years. If they had a case, they'd be knocking on the door hauling me off in cuffs because of my frivolous arguments. Several years of not filing, and ***Crickets***.

Now, it's not my job to prove anything to you; I get nothing out of your newfound freedoms or continued Involuntary servitude.

Instead of you people jumping on this thread asking me to PROVE something to you, how about you prove something to me instead?

The Million Dollar Question, that apparently no one here can answer:

"What is the One Document, either local/state/federal Gov't has in their possession that would contractually obligate-compel-force anyone other than gov't employees and elected officials, who HAVE signed into an employment contract and are receiving pay, to abide by their own internal-statutory rules and tax codes, AND compel us to do it for free-without pay"?

I presented you with some information to use or not to use; it's not up to me to prove anything to you. If you want to find out if it works, lick a stamp and shoot it off and wait for a reply. If there is no reply, they simply don't want to agree to your terms and don't care to contract with you.

It's that simple. Registered Mail has a way of winning court cases :)

No Contract = No Jurisdiction ........... Period!

Government employees and Elected Officials MUST comply with statutory rules and tax codes; it's part of their employment contract; they agreed to the terms and conditions. They are getting paid to abide by those internal statutes and tax codes, the rest of us not on a gov't salary are not getting paid.

Burger King employees agree to wear a Burger King uniform and mop the floors; they are getting paid to follow those internal corporate statutes. When they clock out and go home; they are not required to wear the uniform and mop the floors, until they clock back in.

Someone who works for the Gov't part time and works for Burger King part time are paid to follow internal corporate statutes while on the clock.

If a Gov't employee clocks out of their job at the State Capitol at 5PM, when they get home, they are not required to abide by the same rules and codes as they were while they were at work earlier that day.


Because they aren't getting paid; they are off the clock; they are not operating through that Title as a Gov't employee while their sitting at home smoking a cigar with a cat in their lap.

When they go back to the State Capitol in the morning and clock back in, they are getting paid to follow those statutes and pay those taxes.

If they work at Burger King part time, the statutes they have to follow at their Gov't job do not apply while they're on the clock at Burger King, and while on the clock at Burger King, they are not obligated to follow the statutes/codes of their Gov't job.

What you think is gov't is nothing but a bankrupt corporation masquerading as a legitimate gov't body. You are entitled to be paid for you time when a foreign corporation asks you to do something for their benefit, like administration of tax forms and other gov't duties.

Your slavery is between your ears; there is no piece of paper or secret treaty on this land mass that compels you to do anything for free, unless you've signed a contract that states otherwise.

What's the One Document the IRS or Federal Gov't could enter into a court case as Exhibit A that would prove you are in some way obligated to abide by their own internal-statutory rules and tax codes; file their paperwork; administrate their affairs AND do it for free - without any payment for you time?

More Info Please

Hi, Very interesting. I would like more info on this letter (contract) what to say and who to send it to..



What would be great would be if

some of the people proposing these measures would post proof of how it's worked for them. Without that proof it sounds like you are sending naive people where you fear to tread.

Would you consider this proof that the IRS is bogus?

Here's someone from LostHorizons.com who puts his money where his mouth is.


Another one waiting around for someone to "prove" it

to them before the act on their own. That's the problem with this country; everyone's standing on the sidelines watching the battle as others are spilling the blood and doing the time.

Read the comments below before you interject; you might learn something.

Instead of someone 'proving' to you that you are not liable to follow the corporations own internal-statutory rules and tax codes, how about you prove the opposing question instead?

"What's the One Document local/state/federal gov't has in their possession that would contractually compel-force-obligate anyone other than gov't employees and elected officials to abide by their internal-statutory rules and tax codes AND compel us to do it free of charge-without pay"?

PS: You won't find court documents that prove you're not obligated; if they didn't bury those cases and hide them, their BS con would be exposed and would end overnight.

Anytime a case like this gets traction, it mysteriously disappears so no case law can be established for others to use in their defense.

all I want is evidence

of one person, any person, successfully doing what you said you did.

"Trust me, when you put these conditions on these scumbags, they all of a sudden don't care to do business with you anymore. They like to prey on the sheep who fall in line and jump through hoops; they don't want ANYTHING to do with people who know the con and are working to expose it."

I don't trust anyone. Not the government and not you.

"Personally I charge $1,500.00 per/hour to file gov't forms such as 1040's, with a 6 hour minimum per piece of paper (got be careful and take your time with this stuff :) I also demand payment up front since their corporation is bankrupt and they cannot be trusted to pay their bills."

Let's see.

check youtube

there's plenty of evidence showing this stuff in action. the people who are successful will never go to court. they will be left alone

listen closely and pay attention to how these judges act. if you sit down or state your corporate name or give a plea you are admitting to being under their maritime/admiralty jurisdiction



But of course that's all you want is 'evidence' .... LOL

So do the other people reading who are suffering from Stalkhome's Syndrome and have been raised all their lives believing something that isn't true.

READ MY LIPS: There is No Evidence, because they won't reply to a conditional acceptance offer that negotiates the terms of the contract. How can anyone collect if the IRS won't agree to the terms?

Their silence is deafening. Do you want me to drive down there and drag them over a desk and force them to answer the counter offer?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

No ones asking you to trust anyone. In life you are presented with options and information, that may or may not be true. It is then up to you to experiment or not and decide if something actually works or not.

What if everyone in Society stood on the side lines and said "prove" it to me?

Prove to me I can become a millionaire by showing me you did it first.

Prove to me I can brush my teeth by showing me you did it first.

Prove to me I can inhale and exhale by showing me you did it first.

Prove to me I can walk to the mall by showing my you did it first.

Prove to me I can be free from gov't tyranny and taxation by showing me you did it first.

Prove to me Colloidal Silver kills the HIV virus by showing me you did it first.

I'll just sit over here and die of AIDS instead of trying it myself, because you haven't proven to me it works with black ink on white paper.

It's not proof enough the AIDS patient is still alive after 20 years and doing fine, you need proof from another reliable source before you'll give it shot.

That's just absurd and ridiculous.

You've been presented with information from people who have been in this movement for many-many years; people who fight in the courts to advance the cause of freedom and share with you experiences they believe to be sound, and still, everyone's sitting on the sidelines waiting for them to PROVE it.

Your freedom from tyranny is not mine to exercise and enforce. That is up to you; I gain nothing from you filing/paying/abiding.

What would you do if someone told you that you could jump in that contraption called an automobile and turn that little key and something magical would happen; it would start and you could drive it to the store instead of walking ten miles everyday?

Would you try it, or would you stand there and say "Prove it to me first"?

You've been presented with an automobile to drive; it's up to you if you wish to get in and turn on the ignition; it's not up to me to prove it to you.

Turn the key and give it a shot, or continue walking ten miles to the store.

I get nothing out of it either way.

a copy of the invoice you sent them

would be a start. you can redact your name.

Now you're learning how to initiate a contract .... Yay!

Now let me show you the other half of contracting:

I conditionally accept your proposal to upload a copy of my conditional acceptance offer to the IRS IF you will answer the Million Dollar Question with the correct answer.

"What's the One Document, either local/state/federal Gov't has in their possession that would contractually obligate-compel-force anyone other than gov't employees and elected officials who ARE getting paid to abide by those statutes and tax codes, to abide by those internal-statutory rules and tax codes, AND do it for free - without pay"?

Now, you can either accept my offer to contract by providing me with the correct answer, or you can ignore it and we have no contract.

Your Move.

I'm not the one claiming anything.

I've nothing to prove. You are the one claiming you've sent invoices to the irs etc. Honestly, you could've knocked up a few fakes in this time if you cared but even easier than that you could've posted the originals with your details redacted but instead you chose to talk about "moves."

Sounds like you are just playing some sort of online game. Anyway good luck. I hope no-one falls for your games.

Of course you are claiming something:

You've claimed that you want evidence and proof:


You, in a round about way are challenging the information at hand with your non-anecdotal interjections.

Am I not entitled some valuable consideration in this proceeding as well?

Everyone wants something from me ..... "proof", and I'm agreeing to cough up the proof with a counter offer that gives me something in return for my efforts.

Is that not allowed? Is it only YOU who have the right to ask for something of benefit, or am I also entitled to receive something of benefit?

All I asked is for you to provide me the One Document. If you can provide that One Document, I will be more than happy to upload a scan of the conditional acceptance letter.

You get what you want, and I get what I want.

You're not staying in honor, and I am.

You refuse to answer, and yet I agree to your terms, if only you will answer.

Am I missing something here?


This was the dumbest thing I have seen all day, and I work in corporate America. Great job

Look everyone it's Assclown #2; he's back for more!

You are a slow learner McFly ... LOL

I'll ask you the same question you've been avoiding for two days:

"What's the One Document, either local/state/federal Gov't has in their possession that would contractually obligate-compel-force anyone other than gov't employees and elected officials who ARE getting paid to abide by those statutes and tax codes, to abide by those internal-statutory rules and tax codes, AND do it for free - without pay"?

Your failure to offer up something of value or evidence of the contrary, while continuing to interject your snide remarks ARE the dumbest thing I've seen in two days, and I work in Entrepreneurial America where the pay is MUCH more abundant and I don't have to ask permission to use the restroom.

Answer the question Assclown; the viewing audience is waiting in suspense.

Individual Income Tax Forms :

W-4s, 2s, and 1040 series are classified as Type 5 “Gift and Estate” tax forms. They are not attempting to tax your wages, salary or other remuneration.

Question could be what is the “Gift” involved? My employers gift to me for working? Some gift to the IRS? Or who / what Estate? My Personal Estate? Some Estate as a so called Citizen or Individual?

Never could find out. Lots of pages missing from the law library's Treasury Decisions and Orders. As from various IRS Procedure Handbooks that could have given a clue.

Treasury Secretary Donald Regan once stated simply:
“The purpose of the Revenue Code is not to collect revenue. The purpose of the Revenue Code is to enforce Public Policy.”

Well, what do you know about that?

IRS and Justice spooks monitoring this, I still have a simple question to you all, unanswered for over 17 years.

“Are you exercising an Office of Trust, an Office of Profit, or an Office of Honor?”

It's a simple Jurisdictional question. Did this question ever get to the District Director's superior or IRS legal department, as I asked and authorised by Notarized coloured Signature? Did it get to ANY legal department, or did you just choke?

I can't believe you would just drop years of hounding us with over a half million dollars in Levy Assessments on your books.

I guess Accounts Receivable has some book juggling value to you.

The Constitution is a Trust : http://www.The-Legacy.Info

Interesting you should mention

“Are you exercising an Office of Trust, an Office of Profit, or an Office of Honor?”


Thank you for educating yourself about the Law. Now if we could get the rest of Daily Paul doing it we would have our constitutional form of government restored. There's no need to get any new people into this liberty movement to restore our liberty. We don't need to wake anyone else up. Our current numbers - learning Law... would win us the battle for justice then some.

If Libertarians would just start focusing on the ROOT CAUSES of everything we see going wrong in the country today we could pull those problems up by the root.

BAR MEMBERS: Please consider learning the "right to work" defense Carl uses and DISAVOW your LOYALTY to the BAR. I would consider doing it soon... before judgement day comes.


Thank You vinceableworld for your comment. Down vote or not :

Did you hear about the recent spate of anti-trust suits in California about the LIBOR mess?

Have a peek.

Latest in private Libor cases: California city, counties file suit


Antitrust Cases filed in California


I'll be back.

The Constitution is a Trust : http://www.The-Legacy.Info

That's great really...

but I don't spend a lot of time reading legal cases. I think these are only getting filed to appease the sh... people. If you've seen one you've seen them all... really... no offense. Just more hacking at the branches IMO. Plus I don't find it "news" that suits were filed. It's all a show. Anyone can "file suit" you just stick a piece of paper in the court window.

Anything the BAR does is a show. There's nothing constitutional about it. These cases are won on technicalities... the culprits are never fined/jailed more than 1% of what they deserve. It's all BAR collusion. The BAR regulates criminal activity - that is all. When the sh... people start getting uppity the reign it in a little while until they go back to sleep.

We gotta break the BAR monopoly or this country will never return to constitutional government.

If you want to see one of the last REAL Americans in the Justice System do a search on "Township of Credit River Decision" (notice how I don't say "google it.")

keep killing them with logic and facts my friend.

Have you ever noticed the number of down votes are directly proportional to the number of Assclowns that have commented in the thread?

4 Assclowns will yield 4 negative down votes to any comment you post, even when the comment you've posted is grounded in Law-Facts or US Code they can read with their own eyes; not limited to actual case law cites that are plain to see.

They're like a group of Ugly High School Cheerleaders that are jealous of the new Hot Girl ... LOL

Most people don't even use the up or down arrows as apparent by calculation of the number of actual users/readers with respect to the number of actual up or down votes across the site in it's entirety.

Site has 200,000 members, but you rarely see a comment with more than 10 up or down votes anywhere on the site.

There are a lot of intelligent people lurking in the shadows that never post or interject.

Keep killing them with the truth and facts; the only comeback they have once confronted with logic and facts is/are one liners that have zero force or effect in law, as is plainly seen in the comments below.

Thanks for you contribution, I always enjoy your informative posts.

It is somewhat amusing to say the least;

Once you start asking these thieves the right questions, they all of a sudden don't care to talk to you anymore. Ask the wrong questions and waste your time with frivolous arguments, and they will continue to hound you into oblivion and beat you to death with their "tax code".

Knowledge is Power people.

If you're not a gov't employee or elected official, or officer of that corporation who is receiving pay for occupying that office and performing some function of gov't within/through that Title, their internal statutes and tax codes do not apply to you.

Unless of course, you wish to "Gift" your earnings via a W-4, 2s, or 1040.

They LOVE gifts, wouldn't you?

This post was absolutley hilarious for the first few pages

of comments.
Then it just got old.

I really don't give a crap what side of the argument you are on - WHAT IS WITH THE VILE TALK. When did we invite playground bullies onto this site. And it isn't just this thread.

The tone of some of the people on here is getting detestable. If you can't support your argument without the ad hominem attacks - then shut the hell up. Nobody has to agree with anybody here - but we do expect a certain level of civility.

I have to believe many of these posters are just here to start crap.

As for me and the issue at hand. I have gotten a big fat letter twice from the IRS - both times it was very easy and very smooth to work out with them- they felt I made a mistake - I showed some documents - they showed some rules - we came to an agreement and that was it - really - easier than dealing with the DMV. I suppose the IRS is much like life - some are good people, some are bad. Guess I was lucky. Do I agree with income tax - nope. Am I going to be a fool and believe I don't owe them - nope. Hell, I don't fudge a nickel - it just isn't were I want to "make my stand" against the government. If that makes me an ass clown - well I will be an ass clown that sleeps better knowing I don't have to worry about those big fat envelopes - if another one comes - we will simply sit down and work it out again.
I see a lot of people having a lot of problems for NOT paying - I have yet to see proof of someone that didn't pay and actually got away with it. And no - you saying so on here is not proof.

It's gets old and monotonous correcting newcomers

to this or any thread like it, who have failed to study the information provided to them prior to their impulse-knee jerk-reactionary comments that do nothing but scare people into not pursuing their freedoms and learning the Law.

There are always a few Assclowns that fit the above description that need to be dealt with, sometimes in a humiliating way, because they do not understand logic and reason, and will work tirelessly to murk the water and clutter the thread in an attempt to instill fear and doubt into others who may be seeking remedy.

Assclown is a very fitting term for these people; they are trouble makers and deserve to be treated as such and made examples of. They are internet trolls and/or gov't distraction artist; they are the scum of society, period!

As for your willingness to comply:

It is your Right to be anything you want in life, even if that 'anything' is a gov't serf/slave. I have no Right to take that away from you; it is your decision, and the decision you make will determine whether or not you walk through life a free man, or you walk through life carrying a chain around your neck.

You said:

"I see a lot of people having a lot of problems for NOT paying - I have yet to see proof of someone that didn't pay and actually got away with it. And no - you saying so on here is not proof."

Google is a wonderful tool; try using it sometime. Just Google this term "IRS Loses" and see what happens.


Yes google is a wonderful tool

you should use it to research the values and principles that Ron Paul lives by - and by which this site is dedicated to. Then, perhaps you will see how you are simply failing.

Scum of society. You sound like like a government shill trying to get this site noted for extremism. Sounds to me like your tough talk is to gode fools into ramping up the extremism.

Tell you what - if you are so sure of yourself - sounds like you could make a fortune freeing us slaves. Instead of belittleing and despariging people here on the DP - go work on an informercial. Start a foundation. Get your law degree and work tirelessy to make a change. In short - do something other than act like a 12 yo hiding behind a keyboard making inflamattory comments.