67 votes

Gun law backfires!

The Australian governments mandatory buy back of citizen's weapons resulted in:


69% increase in armed robberies
28% increase in assault with guns
19% increase in gun murders
21% increase in home invasion robberies (a newly created phenomenon)

Home invasion robberies were actually higher except that .... wait for it!

wait for it!

The government couldn't define home invasion.

FYI. They started the ban with semi-automatic weapons, then shot guns, then went for the hand guns. IT is Always done incrementally.

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There's nothing left to wonder about

after that report. What an insult it would be to every American soldier, to give up our guns.

Murder statisitics are the wrong metric

of measuring the so-called effectiveness of gun control. NYC has bragged about last year's murder rates being one of its lowest in years.

BUT! NYC "The Village Voice" reported that other crime has gone up 5-9% Rape, assaults, robbery ,etc.

To me, a increase of higher violence that beats a person within an inch of his or her life, but does not kill them is hardly something to celebrate because the UNARMED and DEFENSELESS victim was not "officially" murdered!

Conscience does not exist if not exercised

"No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up!
---Lily Tomlin

jrd3820's picture

They couldn't define home invasion?

Isn't that when a home is invaded? I did not realize it was more complicated than that.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

That is the point

To avoid an increase in the statistics they don't report them because they are "undefined"

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

How bad is policing in Australia?

In 2009, the day bush fires ravaged and killed over 170 people, police chief Christina Nixon took time off to meet with her biographer:
"Ms Nixon also admitted she spent about 45 minutes working on her biography before returning to the control room about 3pm.

"In hindsight I would have done things differently ... particularly, I would have stayed at the (state emergency) centre that night."

She also left the control room to meet with friends for a pub dinner.

And why would country who has disarmed its citizens need spy drones?
"We are heading into a dystopian gestapo police state, keeping lockstep with the other famously "free" countries of the world.
We have read recently of two "new" plans in the official media, that are priming us to accept this as inevitable.
Pre programming so called free and innocent citizens into accepting data retention and drone surveillance, which, in a so called free society is abhorrent...
We are all now guilty until proven innocent..where will this lead?"


If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

It is true the murder rate has been falling since the ban.

But recently the the rate has gone up for the first time - See attached article;


And you can get guns if you really want them (not semi-auto's though).

I thought I would post a link to a gun shop here in Melbourne if anyone is interested to see what sort of range is available.


Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

That video and the statistics are a bit misleading

While I am not in disagreement about the fact that I think the Aussies are less safe than before...those statistics are just simply cherry picked for gun rights advocates. The murder rate in Australia has been declining ever since the first year after the ban. So, if you try to use these statistics with a liberal that knows his stuff...you would be looking like an arse. The crime rate has been declining in Australia at about the same rate as the USA. Which is a better argument that people stop doing crimes not the tools.

I just am tired of seeing this same clip and stats thrown around because they are simply misleading. I don't want people not having the facts when facing a debate.

Common sense

You're right statistics can be fudged, common sense can't.
Stick with common sense.

watch for the trolls being

watch for the trolls being paid, seriously


I am not a troll. I own three guns myself. I happen to work for an Australian company(I run my own sales office in the states)...so I have a bit of an inside track to what is going on.

I was debating this same topic with them. I used the statistics that everyone is tossing around.

Here is a link refuting what has been said:

What I am telling you is during my debating of the topic, I did the research myself...the sweeping generalizations from both sides will make you look stupid.

Exactly right. The paid

Exactly right. The paid trolls and shills are out in FULL FORCE on all social networking sites.

Pay attention, you can tell who the trolls/shills are after a while.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

Murder rate = gun murder rate?

Question, Sir:

Does that include all murder or just gun murder? Has overall home invasion crime gone up or down? Has mugging gone up or down? How many knife murders were there? How many "justified police murders" were there?

These numbers are important, Sir. Please provide a link to where you get this information. No worries.

Lima-1, out.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

You have made a claim but provided no proof no link.

So far you have failed to convince.

Free includes debt-free!


Since everyone is now calling me a troll and a paid shill...which is outrageous when I am just trying to make sure that when stats are used that you know how to defend yourself, here is what I am talking about in regards to the AU gun ban and the crime rates.

here is a fairly good objective article with facts on the effects of the AU gun ban with lots of pretty charts:


What I am trying to say is that just throwing out a sweeping generalization that is simply not true is going to hurt the argument to protect gun rights. What is more interesting is the same rate of decline has happened in the US as AU with no gun ban. The point is that the gun's aren't what the problem was. Anyway...I am sure you guys will some how chide me. I am just saying to watch what statistics you quote because I felt like a jackass when arguing about Gun Rights with my Australian Colleagues and using the stats from that video. They are cherry picked from the first year after the gun ban. After the the first year(97 I believe), the gun murder rate has been steadily dropping. If the last 16 years were shown, it wouldn't seem like some dramatic statistic that the video would make you think it is. I am just trying to arm everyone properly when making arguments against liberals. I felt like an idiot and my arguments were deemed irrelevant when chatting with the Aussies about this because I was not right.

I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment and a proud gun owner. I say the 2nd is the most important of all because it protects the rest. I am not a paid shill.

I never judged you.

Without proof, I was unconvinced. If your claim is faulty, I could end up wasting time for nothing.

Government massaged date is suspect. Is there independent confirmation?

Free includes debt-free!

I know you didn't

Sorry. I didn't mean to respond directly to your post. Others in the thread were calling me a paid shill or whatever. I just find it funny how paranoid some people get.

I know that the govt stats can be massaged. The research link from gunsandcrime essentially just points out that there is no evidence that the ban has helped and that there is no evidence that the buyback caused anything good or bad...but that the homicide rates have been dropping anyway. What I am saying is attacking the argument the way most people are doing so is not going to get anyone anywhere. That's all. I don't have a good answer, but I also hate sounding stupid to people when they correct me on statistics.... and the video in this thread certainly made me feel stupid when I threw out the stats they quoted to people that actually live in Australia. I was simply trying to help anyone before they also made an arse out of themselves.

How many government caused fatalities during gun grab?

It's good to question everything. Thanks, for taking the effort.

Free includes debt-free!

I believe the right to bare

I believe the right to bare arms, also means being able to protect yourself if there were ever a foreign invasion.

The media always portrays to us that we are in constant risk for "terrorist attacks" Why would they want to disarm us if this is so? We have the right do defend our country. And if this ever happened we will be ready. I believe this is something that should also be brought up in these debates.

If we are in such danger wouldn't that make us an easier target? I believe removing our arms puts us in greater danger.

The Second Amendment goes so much deeper, what is brought up in the media is just scratching the surface.

Freedom always wins

Excellent point about the terrorist attacks.

After all the years of living under the various color coded warnings, fear of going to the mall, sporting events, etc., how can they take away our right to self-defense and/or to form a milita to defend our country? The op is correct, it will do incrementally. As someone said on another post, when doctors stop prescribing mind altering drugs to "difficult" children maybe the murders will decrease.

the Victorians frowned upon the right to bare arms

The people's right to bear arms should NEVER be questioned!
;-) couldn't resists! When I saw what you wrote all I could think of was fashion. lol

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

LOL OMG! thanks! ;)

LOL OMG! thanks! ;)

Freedom always wins

Gun Control worked perfectly there...

It disarmed "the governments sheeple"...

Perfect example!

Thanks, I've gone ahead and reposted on my blog. WeAreChangeVictoria.org



Watch this dry yet astonishing Dr. Robert Beck cancer treatment lecture on Google Video - search "Suppressed Medical Discovery" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkiX0jJJozk

I think we are missing the purpose of disarming America.

The purpose is NOT to prevent crime, but to allow a fascist tyrannical government to do as it pleases, when it pleases, without fear of resistance from the people.

That means you can be arrested without a warrant, held indefinitely, tortured, raped, and killed by presidential order without any accountability on the part of government.

So comparing crime rates is interesting but the government could care less about crime rates. It is all about power and control over the people.




This is excellent...TY


From A Government Perspective

The laws were a complete success, generating problems which require more government "solutions", more gov't employees, and more spending other people's money.


Nobody does stupid like government, to expect different is perilous.

Free includes debt-free!

They are Not Stupid . . .

though sometimes we are, for falling for their lies.

The power mad know exactly what they are doing.

As far as I know, only America and Switzerland guarantee the citizens right to bear arms by law. We give authority to those in government. Those in government don't exert authority over
We The People.

Will we be fooled again ?

True, but Government is a strawman. The result of an agreement.

Individuals in Government commit crimes of Treason.

Failing to uphold and defend the Constitution was the oath sworn.

Fail that public trust we will try and hang you. For Treason or Misprision of Treason under the US Constitution or US Codes.

Free includes debt-free!