82 votes

Rand Paul Truce 2.0

Inspired by This post...

Since it is a sensitive, and potentially explosively divisive topic, may I suggest that we all:

1) Respect one another's opinion
2) Not push our opinions onto others, and not make others wrong and evil for not holding the same opinions we do.

As for me, I haven't made up my mind yet. I will be watching carefully. He's playing a big game of chess, and that is something that I find interesting.



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Until..

Until msm is open and fair, until elections are open and fair, until opponents stop bailing out when invited to debate, this is all moot.

Every time a Liberty candidate gains a seat or inches forward, he/she is ousted and/or compromised and we take 6 steps back.

I am wondering if we are better served to let the GOP die once and for all. This Republic was not intended to have parties in the first place.

I usually do not resort to name calling because it is not becoming and unproductive, so please forgive me this one time. GOP = Party of Libtards

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

The libertairian party

doesn't make sense. Political parties are collectivist groups set to impose their beliefs on others. We have make such great strides in the Republican party, to hopefully gain control and power of elected office, to destroy that power and political party.

The LP..

it totally irrelevant. Even most of the Gary Johnson supporters openly declared it was just a protest vote. An option to writing in Ron Paul.

In my current observation, the LP wouldn't ever even be mentioned if it weren't being used as a pejorative against anybody who in any way questions or expresses any doubt about Rand. And I am having extreme difficulty finding anyone who has had the LP smear flung at them having any connection or history at all with the LP.

Basically just, "If you disagree with Rand and don't back him you MUST be a progressive liberal LP'er that hates puppies and kittens!".

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

deacon's picture

THE OWNER ASKS FOR A TRUCE!!

did he get what he asked for?
certainly not,the arguing and fighting is starting already
my god!! we can't even act like we are all n the same side
and working for the same goal
how are we going to get anything meaningful accomplished?
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Agreed

I'm more on Rand's side than not, I don't love everything he says, but I don't think he's "the enemy" by any means. Best Senator we have in my estimate, but that doesn't mean there's not room for improvement.

But jeez people, calm down. We all want pretty close to the same thing.

Calling people "zombies" or trying to suggest that they support everything the GOP does or some such tripe just because they support what they think Rand is trying to do is absurd.

So too is the idea that anyone who objects to what Rand does is "killing the movement" or anything other than sharing their opinions. In almost all cases, I understand them entirely, I just don't share their DEGREE of outrage and disapprove of the way they express it. This doesn't mean they're traitors to the cause, or that they're socialists, or progressives, or neo-cons, or closet Libertarian Party supporters, or Martians.

We're all on the same side here folks, just with some different ideas. We're SUPPOSED to be the smart rational folks who use reason instead of name calling. That's why I object to name calling and any other sort of "Oboomya" or that sort of silly names. It's dehumanizing and wrong, honestly.

Use your words folks, but first use your brains. We're all here for Liberty.

Eric Hoffer

This reminds me of "Life of Brian"

Do you remember the scene where he was hanging out with the local revolutionaries and all they talked about was how much they hated the other slightly different revolution party? When we talk about people in our movement that are not pure enough, remember that most of us don't even agree with Ron 100%. For instance, Ron is not an Objectivist and he wrote about how much he disagreed with Ayn Rand but he is happy to make common cause with her followers. He strongly disapproves of drug use but is happy to have the support of drug users who like his stance on legalization. He is a devote Christian but brings in hard core atheists on his team. As for me I strongly disagree with both Ron and Rand on immigration but I would rather have an intellectually honest debate with someone who understands liberty that vote for a Statist who is pandering to me. I think Rand is just bringing in a slightly more populist flavor to our libertarian movement kind of like how Andrew Jackson brought it to Jefferson's party.

Our Libertarian movement?

I really hope this is not a Libertarian movement because the Libertarians work very hard to undermind libertarians to nominate Republicans for president wearing LP lapel pins. The Libertarians work very hard to keep Libertarian issues marginalized.. for example, they promote cannabis, it's their biggest issue, and yet work like a collective to destroy anyone who actually brings the issue to the front, Jack Herer, Steve Kubby for two.. should have been highly supported, but instead were underminded.

What Ron Paul did for me (Libertarian 1976- 92) is deliver me from that go nowhere loser party and gave Libertarian issues a fighting chance in the GOP.

Nobody cares...

about the Libertarian Party. Why do you keep waving it around beating up people who have unrelated disagreements with you? Same with the "progressive" label you randomly fling at those who disagree with you on ANYTHING.

You are just trying to hurt people. AND IT SHOWS. People can see it. You are not fooling anyone. It is super obvious. People are not stupid like you seem to think they are.

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

I care

I'm not here to fool anyone, nor am I here to hurt anyone, nor do I think anyone here is stupid.

I believe many here are not only Libertarian, but care very much about the Libertarian Party, were hoping that Ron Paul's failed preisential bid in the GOP would grow the Libertarian Party, as they continue to push the Libertarian Party to undermine those of us who joined the GOP.

Have I hurt you? Speak for yourself and say how I hurt you.

I belive that not only are people here smart, but able to speck for themselves, and not needing to hide behind some collective.

I didn't say you hurt anybody...

I said you are trying. (and making yourself look bad)

Most all of the people you fling the progressive, liberal, whiner, loser, LP, Libertarian, 1% labels at have things like Justin Amash and Constitution in their bylines or tell you they have never had anything to do with the LP.

The LP is nothing. Not even on the majority of anybody's radar. You are using it as a mere pejorative against the general philosophy of libertarianism of which Ron Paul is proudly and boldly associated with. Even Rand has gone around talking about his supposed libertarianism and how he wants to bring libertarianism to the Republican party.

You've called me a progressive and an LP'er which is just silly. First of all you know nothing about me. Secondly, I am a Constitution and Bill of Rights loving jeffersonian Old Rightist and have been since 1977. At least find out the history of somebody before you blindly start trying to smear them.

And your ongoing accusations about some movement on Daily Paul to start a civil war is just inane and completely baseless.

I am not saying you are hurting other people. You are just hurting yourself. Daily Paul people aren't stupid.

And the "if you disagree with Rand then you are a progressive LP'er" meme is growing old...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

You do not understand The Granger, which is easy to do.

(I mean it is easy to misunderstand her and you are not alone in that.) She has her finger on the pulse of things and her political savvy is spot on. She is ahead of most in her thinking and reasoning. It takes me a while to catch on to what she means sometimes, too. All I know is that time and circumstances usually prove her to be correct, even when I have disagreed with her on some issues. Not 100% but, damn close.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

Actually...

...she has her 'Cult of Rand' and GOP-goggles on and her meaning and intentions are crystal-clear, to a thinking man.

Her finger is up her own and the GOP's ass, not on the pulse of anything.

It is a tired old mantra and dogma she spews, despite her attempts to repackage and reinvigorate it...a mantra and dogma that can be clearly assessed and viewed to have led directly to the pathetic state of affairs we currently live in.

The hissing of 'stay with the party', 'settle for a little bit of what 'we' desire', 'compromise on fundamental principle to achieve the greater good', 'stick with the people and party that has a chance to win', hiss, hiss, hiss......

From where I stand, a person who actually has fundamental liberty-based principles at his core, well, that man will not and in fact, cannot compromise them and that man would NEVER hiss suggestions and rationalizations that others do so.

Just so you know.

What are you saying?

That I have actually been a progressive and Libertarian Party advocate and/or member but just don't realize it yet?

I'm pretty damn sure I've been an articulate small govt, non-interventionist, who wants the Govt out of our lives type libertarian-leaning conservative since the 1970's. I voted for Reagan and have been staunchly pro-life since 1983. Every single vote I've ever cast in my entire life has been for republicans. ;)

And I've been researching the people Granger keeps smearing and I am not finding any evidence of them being progressive or LP'ers either.

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Weebles, I know you're one of the good guys.

You don't have to defend yourself to me. My only point was that you are not understanding The Granger. She's one of the good guys, too.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

Well..

my only contention with her is her calling people progressives and LP'ers for merely questioning or not liking Rand. I have voiced no other objection.

I am not a fan of Rand but I respect her choice to like and advocate for Rand.

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

---

Whether Rand runs or not, it is too soon for me to know. I will look at all potential candidates records and choose accordingly.

Imo, ptb will persist as they have done, and will not readily 'let' a candidate they do not like into the fore-front.

hillary and Rand on the ballot.. Rand is not liked among democrats. They looked past Rons conservatism and supported honesty, Liberty and foreign policy. Once Ron was out, they backed their party. hillary will also pull the minority and women vote.

2014 is critical. Ron, and we, will continue to build an entire generation of local/state, which is required to bring Liberty back to our nation. If our Republic lasts that long, 2020 will be interesting, indeed. Justin Amash is on the horizon ;-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

It was a nice try anyway

So much for that!

Oh well...

*grabs popcorn*

---
**I also have a "wait and see" mindset with Rand. Either way, what he does or doesn't do really isn't a big concern of mine.**

A signature used to be here!

Rand isn't Ron but it also isn't 2016

and to be honest I think there is plenty more to worry about than getting rons son elected as President...

http://shelfsufficient.com - My site on getting my little family prepped for whatever might come our way.

http://growing-elite-marijuana.com - My site on growing marijuana

I'm doing the "Wait 'n' See" too.

I see both good things and questionable things with him. Not enough passion about him either way to get in internet arguments.

I'm with Rand

Pretty sure Ron will endorse and Campaign for his son Rand. And that's good enough for me. I trust Ron, so I support Rand

Frighteningly, mindless...

...cultish zombie rhetoric and reasoning.

So and so supports so and so, therefore, I support him too. Good Lord!

Another perfect exemplar of what this purported liberty-movement is actually largely made up of.........Grangers on one hand and this type on the other.

Sigh....

Don't hold your breath

He won't support warmongering Neocons, even his own son, much as the Neocons are drooling for it.

Really?

You must not be aware of Ron Paul's 2010 endorsement of Lamar Smith, NEOCON....

Michael Nystrom's picture

Don't forget Ted Cruz

.

He's the man.

I'd trust Smith

before I'd trust Rand Paul!

not chess, but poker

You don't lay all your cards out for everyone to see. You don't show your hand until you are ready to win. It's not like chess where everything is in the open and you can see three moves ahead.

Rand Support not neocon, but anti-wild hair libertarians

Michael, thank you for your voice of civility.

Unfortuately, there will never be a way to get around wild hair Libertarians disdain for Rand Paul.

Factor that into your calculus. It's just the dynamic and, unfortunately, it will mean endless flame wars between libertarians who have jobs, haircuts and sometimes wear jackets and ties and the Wild Hairs.

I think the replies below are a microcosm.

I am a career....

...executive, wear a suit at times, I even carry a gun too and I proudly wear the label of 'wild-hair', given your intentions for its meaning.

Many here merely reinforce the lack of allegiance to fundamental principle and their comments certainly serve as a microcosm.

There will always be conflict

between those who seek and promote truth and reality and those who try to obfuscate and deny truth.

#1 statement of obfuscation of truth and reality

"A team of LP members working together to achieve an agreed upon objective and cross the finish line together."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The odds on that one is 1 million to 1.

Truth and Reality:

A room full of wild haired pot-bellied old men arguing for 6 hours about who is the real objectivist and how there can never really be a common objective.

LOL

THAT is the reality. If George Washington had had todays LP members fighting with him in the Contenental Army, we'd all still be speaking the Kings or Queen's English right now and would still be b*tching about the Tories.