20 votes

I believe the strength of the Liberty movement is in Christ

Highly recommend this incredible series:

http://youtu.be/mpLtwILsW3E

Would sure love some more of you guys to wake up to the fact that what is happening in this world is a spiritual war between God and Satan.

The Liberty movement will only prevail when it is backed by Christ, who is in fact its author. Without Christ libertarianism is vague and weak, witness the performance of Gary Johnson's God-free campaign.

With Christ, we cannot fail.




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Yes,

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him [Jesus] the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it waswritten, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at

LIBERTY

them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he [Jesus] began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

...

For me, personally, no... but

I am more than PROUD to stand by you in our shared struggle for Justice and Liberty!

Matters not what "the fuel" is in our hearts... so long as it burns hot enough to give us the strength to be resolute, to make all necessary sacrifices, and to be brave enough to trust one another on this journey.

What would the Founders do?

How can you be a libertarian

If you validate others' "libertarianism" based on their personal beliefs?

Isn't that the entire point of libertarianism? Freedom? Freedom of choice? Freedom of speech? Freedom of religion?

How about I create a thread, but in the title I replace Christianity with atheism, Judaism, or Islam.
Would you come at me with animosity? Acceptance? Disbelief?

How about the advice of Dr. Paul? "People should be treated as individuals, not groups."

not only gary johnson

did you see the denver broncos game. it is clear to me that they did not pray enough, or maybe god just hates denver.

why did god turn his back on ron paul during the election? maybe he loves obama more? that's probably it.

“Call on God, but row away from the rocks.”
Hunter S. Thompson

“I like your Christ, I do not like you Christians. You Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
― Mahatma Gandhi

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
My ฿itcoin: 17khsA7MvBJAGAPkhrFJdQZPYKgxAeXkBY
http://www.dailypaul.com/303151/bitcoin-has-gone-on-an-insan...

This is the Essence of Liberty

While talking to my 15 year old son about gun control, I felt the discussion was incomplete and wrote him a note.

Your post compelled to share it with you.

Hey Son,

When we were talking last night about gun control and you stated that both sides make good points and that made you undecided on your opinion. Then you said you were too wishy washy. I couldn’t relate to this because I pretty much know where I stand on an issue right away. But how do I know I am right? Well I don’t but I pretty much base everything on what I believe, how do I know what I believe is right? Well here’s why I believe what I believe and why I believe I am right.

Until you and your sisters came along I was responsible to two people, so to speak. One was God and two was to me. That’s why I am always honest because I can’t lie to either of us.

I believe there is a God, I believe he is a big enough God that he understands more than I could ever comprehend. But he made me. I am a Protestant by heritage and Baptist by choice. That means I believe that my only sin is that I was born broken, meaning that I am not worthy to be in God presence's and this makes me feel incomplete. But guess what, everyone is born broken and feels incomplete. Therefore I am no better then or worse than everyone else. But God knows I am broken so he sent his only (unbroken) son to die for the sin of being broken…..He sent a gift( and I say gift because it is only offered, I don’t have to accept it) To heal that brokenness. But like I said he is a big enough God that he could create other forms of “ His Gift”, other religions that I don’t understand……it’s my reasonability to accept this and be respectful of it. And that's the whole key..... to respect other's beliefs and be accepting of it. If anyone asks my opinion I feel free to give it with a firm belief that I am not trying to change their minds but they asked what I believe, I expect they want me to be honest.

So how does this translate to gun control?

I believe we have rights granted to us by God that are natural rights that belong just to me and I am insured of these rights by being a creation of God. But so is everyone one else, so my rights end where their rights began which insures equality.

What we give to the community is the ability, but not the right, to make laws that represent that each person rights are protected.

We did that by ratifying the Constitution but withheld certain rights to protect us from the community, to protect our individual rights. They did this for two reasons.

1. They had experience with turning over their rights to protect themselves before and found that they had no protection from the protectors.

2. They were not going to get the Constitution ratified unless the Constitution was amended to include these ten rights to protect the individual from the newly formed government.

So we as individuals collectively made an agreement that we shall never give them the right to takes our weapons.

So my beliefs begins with natural rights given by God and my rights end at where they infringe on anyone else. I allow the government to make laws that provide order and protect the rights of the individual but I reserve the right to protect my natural rights.

I hope this helps you to become more convicted in your opinions.

Love Dad

great post. I agree 100%.

great post. I agree 100%.

How come Christian atheletes

How come Christian atheletes give god all the credit every time they win, but never blame him when they loose?

"God tripped me up on the 50 yard line!"

They don't give God credit for "wins"

They give God credit for their god-given talent.
They give humble thanks for the win.

okeh then...

..how come tsunami or tornado survivors are eager to thank Jehovah or Juju or Jupiter for the "miracle" of their survival, but decline to hold them accountable for the rough weather itself?

And to remove one popular theist dodge:
Rough weather is NOT a manifestation of man's free will. Or is it? Whither the next contradiction?

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

read your bible. that

read your bible. that question is answered in the book of Genesis.

To whom are you refering?

All survivors or just Christian survivors? I can't speak for other Christians - only myself.
But it's basically the same theory - God's power is acknowledged (athletic skill or act of nature)in all things be they good or bad - thanks is given for all good things. Doesn't mean that God isn't present during bad things - during the bad times one asks for strength and courage.
The Bible says that God chastises those he loves - just as a loving earthly father would do his own children. True Christians do acknowledge God in all things. However, there is a difference between "acknowledging" and "blaming"....perhaps that's your confusion.

I have some Truth for you

Posting things like this in a supposed liberty forum, is Divisive. If you don't realize that then you're being ignorant.

Beep beep boop beep... I am a Paulbot... prepare for liberty and prosperity!

???

Being divisive on a "liberty" forum is an oxymoron isn't it?

WHO is being divisive?
The person posting what they believe...(one can't assume it is faked)
Or the person arguing about what was posted?
Just asking...

1+1=2 Passionate

1+1=2

Passionate pro-christian statments claiming that the Liberty movement is all because of them, in a movement peopled by just as many passionate athiests is a recipe for infighting.

Hense: Posting a topic like this on a liberty forum is divisive.

You are free to post as you like, just expect a lot of angry posts and butthurt people. It seems somewhat less productive than threads concerned strategies for taking back our country.

A better title may have been: "I believe the strength of the Liberty movement for many people is in Christ."

That statement is an objective fact and there is no reason to debait it. That sets the stage for all of the christians on here to come post god-is-great-feel-good comments without raising the hackles of all of us athiests who don't appreciate having your god thrust on us... or taking credit for our work.

Just imagine if I posted a topic like this: "I believe the strength of the Liberty movement is in the knoweldge that there is no god."

divisive much?

Personal posts are always "opinionated"

and should be accepted as such...one should not have to preface it with "I believe". That's a given.
Agreed - one is free to post as they wish - and others are equally free to their response. One is also free to ignore the post entirely.

However, as I stated earlier - if one clicks on a post simply to attack or censor the poster, then they are an equal participator or instigator in the division. Limiting or restricting is the opposite of freedom.
If others want to argue/debate an issue - that is their business - they are all adults on the DP and can choose to which posts they respond and which they ignore. As long as posts abide by DP guidelines, it should be acceptable - if not, it will be removed by the mods. Some people actually enjoy the heated, passionate debates.

Many topics other than religion are also argumentative - Rand Paul, 9-11, Alex Jones, chemtrails,etc. It would be rather difficult to eliminate all topics which evoke disagreements - and boring to say the least. I have been around the DP for 5 years and I can assure you that there are many atheists who also like to play devil's advocate with their posts as well. I usually ignore the "hot topics" - you might try the same.

yep

Passionate atheist here and I agree. I don't get too "butthurt" about it, but it is pretty obvious that claiming one particular religion is the key to the movement, even if that were true, does nothing but make everyone else feel like an outsider. As a free market capitalist and atheist, I'd like to see the liberty movement not make the same mistake the right wing made by alienating reasonable, logical atheists who happen to be fiscal conservatives.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

do thoughts have mass?

In order to manifest miracles you do need to have faith...there is nothing wrong with having faith (it has its place in this material realm) in good measure along with REASON.

We see with our eyes little specks of light in the sky at night, by virtue of reason we know these to be suns, solar systems and even galaxies. We see with our eyes the sun move from East to West, by virtue of reason we know the earth moves around the sun. We see with our eyes solid state objects, by virtue of reason we know these objects are energy in constant flux. We see with our eyes a material world, by virtue of reason we know the origins of the material realm are in the spiritual realm, the mental realm.

With an ocean of knowledge available on the internet... the Christian should be able to prove his/her faith is based on sound reason... BUT YOU HAVE TO SEARCH!

No organized religion will give you this knowledge out right, for then you cease to be a sheep in the flock. YOU BECOME AWARE OF WHO AND WHAT YOU REALLY ARE. Who knows if you remain a Christian, however it will fortify your faith in the spirit that animates this world.

Possibly....

Or it could be more easily explained...people want to be free. A Government that will do whatever it pleases to get whatever it wants is a threat to the exact thing that people want...freedom. Christians should try hard not to alienate Atheists who share their passion for freedom. Atheists are our Brothers in this struggle and when it comes to God we should simply agree to disagree and go about the business of fighting tyranny!

Peace!

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
- President John F. Kennedy

Ephesians 5:11

And haue no fellowship with the vnfruitfull workes of darkenesse, but rather reproue them.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Ephesians-5-11/

.

Know Your Enemy torrent
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6548023/Know_Your_Enemy_%28Th...

And again, uck me and my

And again, uck me and my fellow Atheists. Have fun.

Hmm, religion not reality?

What about both? But the important thing to remember - reality is dependent on truth, truth is not dependent on reality. Our age would like to persuade you it is the other way around.

God bless you all in Liberty, and thanks for contributing to this thread!

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

Religion - NOT

Reality - Yes! I am a firm believer in the Word of God, and HE clearly states in the Scripture "As certainly as I live, says the Lord, everyone will worship me, and everyone will praise God."
(God's Word translation 1995-Romans 14:11). It does not matter what anyone thinks or believes at this time - the Kingdom of God is coming into our view very powerfully at this present time. And as we progress in this knowledge, people will be awakened to the ages-old battle of "good versus evil". And, we will be the Overcomers and possess the Kingdom for ever and ever.

"Nothing is as it appears; everything is smoke and mirrors"

BAHAHAHHA.....!!!

Ya'll debating religion on a political forum....BAHAHAHAHHA....!!!!

Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by...

The words of William Penn are still true, regardless of how much some people would like to live in denial of God and the Lord: "Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants."

The Preambles of ALL 50 state Constitutions reference God and the Lord:

Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution ..

Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ..

Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...

Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...

California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom .

Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe .

Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy ...

Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshiping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences .

Florida 1845, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty ... establish this Constitution...

Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...

Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance . establish this Constitution

Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings ..

Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of government..

Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings ... establish this Constitution

Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges . establish this Constitution.

Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties...

Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy ..

Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine .. acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction

Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God or our civil and religious liberty...

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe...in the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction ...

Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ... establish this Constitution

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings

Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

Missouri 1845, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness .. establish this Constitution ..

Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..

Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom .. establish this Constitution

Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom . establish this Constitution ..

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience .

New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ..

New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings .

North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those

North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...

Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common..

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences .

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing

South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of the State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution

South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties . establish this

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...

Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God

Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution .

Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ...

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator . can be directed only by Reason ... and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other...

Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution .

West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia .. reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God .

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility

Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution .

Excellent comment Dreamer!

One just can't deny what you've posted!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

What a laugh. Absolute

What a laugh.

Absolute bullshit. Those who are indocrinated at birth to accept nonsense on faith and bow to the authoritarian rule of a storybook character are vastly more likley to bow to a Tyrant. Infact they are engineered for it.

Those of us who don't bow to scary stories and arrive at our choices by the power of human reason alone will not be so easily fooled by the empty promises and idle threats of would-be tyrants.

William Penn has it backwards.

I was born and raised in a Communist country.

I was born and raised in a Communist country. I believe that I know what Socialism is, as I have lived for a few decades in Europe. I consider grossly incompetent assumptions such as yours to be broad, vague, misleading, and seriously dangerous.

You think you want to be a part of the Liberty movement, but you deny its bedrock. The "brown shirts" did the very same thing back "then". All you are waiting for is your fearless leader to appear out of the blue and to lead you in his/her pseudo-conservative agenda. And then you hope that you will have *your* way.

And of course then you will care less about upholding and defending The Constitution.

Sad...

My fearless leader already

My fearless leader already appeared, and it was Ron Paul.

Im sorry I don't worship your fucking god. I guess that must mean im just like a nazi brownshirt. Kindly go fuck yourself. If every athiest is like a communist, than every christian is like a zealot straight out of the spanish inquisition, burning any woman who appears to have intellect as a witch.

Not only was that one of the stupidest claims ive heard on these forums directed at any "outsider from the faith" by another religeous bigot, but you didn't even use proper reasoning.

You make the assumption that brown shirts aren't religeous. Thats why you fail. They WERE religeous. All collectivists have faith-based minds. They simply worship the state in place of where you stick a diety. That is the ONLY differance.

I worship neither state or diety. I do not subscribe to collectivism, cosmic or otherwise. Im an individualist after the teachings of Bastiat and John Locke. Im also an objectivist in the spirit of Rand. I don't need nor want your ridiculous and comical fairytales. Your BS creation myth is not responsable for the liberty movement. Your plagerized sun god did not become a delegate nor take over his local GOP for me, nor did he do anything else other than to act as a mental opiate for those who can't function without.

Im glad you take strength from it. I hope it makes you happy. Don't try to claim that without faith in the Flying Spagetti Monster, im going to turn into a collectivist. Im not the one who displays an aptitude for believing in impossible things.

The strength of the liberty movement is truth

The sooner folks get their brain around that, the sooner the 'divide and conquer" tactics will stop working.
There is no liberty if the mind is enslaved by lies.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

All truth

is of God.

“It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till." -J.R.R. Tolkien