20 votes

I believe the strength of the Liberty movement is in Christ

Highly recommend this incredible series:


Would sure love some more of you guys to wake up to the fact that what is happening in this world is a spiritual war between God and Satan.

The Liberty movement will only prevail when it is backed by Christ, who is in fact its author. Without Christ libertarianism is vague and weak, witness the performance of Gary Johnson's God-free campaign.

With Christ, we cannot fail.

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And Jesus said, "I am the Truth"


Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

So did the Flying Spagetti

So did the Flying Spagetti Monster.

Truth is provable by reason, wether we currently have the means or not. When you can proove it, let me know. I don't accept "faith" as proof of anything other than a lack of reason and a knack for being easily fooled.

really? please post it....

really? please post it.... I've never seen it..

Have we talked before?

Faith in the Biblical sense is belief based on evidence.--Kinda like me saying "I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow".

If you want the truth, you will find it. If not, it doesn't matter what facts I throw in your face.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

We can proove the sun will

We can proove the sun will rise because we can track it's movements in conjunction with ours. Barring calamity, its a pretty reasonable bet that its going to rise.

"If you want the truth, you will find it. If not, it doesn't matter what facts I throw in your face."

This the summery of a faith-based mind and the utter lack of the need for evidence. Evidence does not "appear" for you because you "want" it to. You must search for it, and either find it (to the best of your ability) or do not find it. A reasoning mind draws a conclusion based on what evidence he/she finds. An absurd belief that if you "want" to find truth, it will magically appear for you is just another way of saying that you can find reasons to rationalise ridiculous mythology as being fact in your mind. This is the kind of reasoning that leads to statments like: "You can't disprove it, so it must be true!"

Does "wanting" to believe that Obamacare and Gun Control are good for Liberty make it true? If you want to believe this, does it matter what facts anyone throws in your face? What kind of person thinks like this? There is a differance between objective reality and the whims with which people "choose" to believe in bullshit.

Also, what "facts" you throw in my face will absolutly determine wether I believe in gods, higher beings, aliens, or anything else. The fact is, you have no facts, or you wouldn't need faith.

if you want some evidence

watch a kent hovind seminar.

watch moody science videos on youtube.

read 'in defense of the faith' by dave hunt. read 'tortured for christ' by richard wurmbrand.

but, you probably don't want evidence. that was my point. i hope i'm wrong.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

I am a former Christian. I

I am a former Christian. I spent the first half of my life compiling all the "facts" for why god is real. So yes, you are very much wrong.

Im watching the video now. Ill let you know what I think.

update: Ha! Did you even watch this? Do you not know that this video is saying almost 180' opposite of what you want it to say?

So... A 30 minute video explaining that humans require science (the product of human reason) to navigate when they don't have use of all of their senses. And that we should "trust" in the product of our reason (instruments) because we become disoriented if we are blinded while flying a plane.

Somehow, this is an argument that god is real? That blind-faith is neccessary? The core argument at the end is that since people have "faith" in their instruments, faith must be a gift from god. Are you freaking kidding me!? This is what passes as evidence for you? Wow.

The reason I "trust" the instruments in my car, is because I use them every day and have never found them to be wrong. This did not come to me automatically. I had to "learn" to drive. This training helped me learn to use and trust in my guages and controls. There is no faith involved. Infact, at times I question the validity of my instruments because they seem to be acting abnormally according to my past experiance and knowledge. If this happens, I take them apart to see if something is wrong. Trust is earned through experiancing safe, dependable use over time. Faith is believing in things you are provided no reason to believe in, just because you feel you should. Thats why we call it peasant control.

You'll notice all the pilots have to "train" for hours and hours in order to begin to "trust" their instruments. If they don't they often revert back to their reactionary impulses and crash when flying into a cloud. This trust is earned through hours of repetitive use of the instruments which build a bedrock trust that they are functioning properly and can be relied upon. This isn't faith, blindly given to something you have never seen or met before. It is the product of human reason and ability to adapt to a world integrated with technology which we have developed.

The other video you posted was 2:30 long. Seriously? The half hour one you posted completely blew up in your face and made my argument for me; are you sure you want me to take apart the 2 1/2 hour marathon you posted alongside it? I really do have better things to do. Besides, if you consider the 1/2 hour one to be the rock solid evidence for god that was going to make a believer out of me... than I can only imagine what else passes for evidence for you.

Still I feel obligated to watch it so you can't complain that I won't "look at the *cough*evidence*cough*. But I feel you owe me one. Im going to dig up 3 hours worth of arguments against god and ask you to watch them some time.

Since im so nice, ill just

Since im so nice, ill just post a single 11 minute video for you.


I couldn't watch it...it was blocked.

And you may as well not bother watching Kent Hovind either. Thanks for being willing to look at some evidence. Your heart seems so hard, I don't think it will get through. The scripture tells us that God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. If you are ever willing to humbly look at the evidence, send me a line. Thanks anyway.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Did you not read what I wrote

Did you not read what I wrote about that pilot video? Instead of telling me that my "heart is hard" or some other patronizing mumbo jumbo, why don't you read what I said concearning that video, and tell me how im wrong. Please tell me how training and learning to trust in your instruments is an alogory for blind-faith in things you have no good reason to believe in and prooves the existance of god?

If I give you a two hour video on evolution, and you come back telling me that it didn't even come close to convincing you, does that mean you have a "hard heart?" I don't have a heard heart, I have a brain. My brain requires evidence before I buy into life-changing theories that claim amazing and unbelievable things to be true. Im asking you to provide one. You came up with a video showing me that pilots have to train in order to gain trust in their instruments so they can fly without their eyes. Clearly, it wasn't what I (or any other reasoning person) would consider to be proof.

Last: What does my heart have to do with it? I use my brain for these sorts of things. If you're used to using your heart to find "proof" maybe thats where you're going wrong? Try using the organ that thinks.

That video I posted was blocked? You don't get out that easy. Turn down your parental controls, or go to youtube and type in: "Why doesn't god heal amputies?"

sorry i tried to watch. there are a lot of youtubes titled

that. could you give me a link to the one you want me to see? thanks.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

It didn't even have a title...so now, I will watch your video.

I was not trying to patronize you. I was merely realizing that it probably doesn't matter what I show you, you are not going to change your mind. I already know God exists, so I don't want to waste hours and hours watching videos that try to disprove that. It's kinda like when you realized what the Fed was all about, you are not going to waste your time with books about how wonderful the Fed is.

The pilot video was merely making the point that humans have faith in many areas of their lives. I wasn't giving it to you to prove there was a God, but more to point out the nature of faith. There are other Moody Science videos on youtube; that just happens to be one of my favorites. You may like the others, I don't know.

I want someone who wants truth to find it, but I have a family and don't have time to spend hours and hours with someone who has already made up their mind. Hopefully you are the previous, I would love to help.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Know Your Religion!!!!!

Here is a list of interesting radio interviews from Red Ice Radio
hosted by Henrik Palmgren, broadcast from Sweden

Joseph Atwill - Hour 1 - Caesar's Messiah, The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus

Joseph Farrell - Hour 1 - Yahweh The Two-Faced God

Webster Tarpley - Hour 2 The Venetian Conspiracy

Feel like I should to respond to this

So I listened to the (long) first clip.

Should state that this seems like disinfo designed to undermine exactly the strength of God in Christianity that is so powerful and threatens tyrants everywhere. This is indicated by the pagan symbology used as visuals during the clip.

So firstly Atwill is coming from a perspective that is:

a) completely materialist, i.e. that the actual explanations in the Bible cannot possibly be true, therefore he has to seek others. So many of his arguments are circular, e.g. the only explanation for this coincidence is such and such, only being - if we exclude the possibility that Jesus was exactly who he said he was. (Here's an example: "Its the only coherent way the text can be read.")

b) a Romanist. He loves and studies Roman history, and is intoxicated with it. This leads him to look at Christian history from a Roman perspective, using Roman concepts, and against the idea of God altogether (never mentioned). Not surprisingly he finds a Roman origin for it. In fact his theory amounts to the idea that the Gospels were nothing more than a Roman joke at Jewish expense, that people took seriously. So his beloved Rome is proven to be superior than those who believe in God - clearly his aim.

His theory is that the gospels were written by the Roman Flavian family as some kind of propaganda tool. However the exact usefulness of this is where it gets shaky. He states that Jesus' prophecies describe events that had already happened during the first Jewish War 66-73AD and were written after.

He asserts that the events described were too close to what actually occurred to be a coincidence (because Jesus could not have accurately predicted them).

This is his main assertion, but it does not in any way disprove Jesus. What it does is argue for an 'anti-dispensationalist' view of Biblical prophecy, that the prophecies have already come true, rather than still being in the future. Okay, he's not alone in this theory.

Then he uses this assertion of the gospels late authorship to argue they were written after the war, and in it the 'son of man' referred to is Titus Flavius - the Roman General sent to put down the Jewish revolt and one of the authors he says of the gospels. First of all, that would make Titus the anti-Christ - according to the gospels, not Jesus. This again in no way disproves Jesus.

Then he goes on to say that Titus is somehow also Jesus, in these Roman-written gospels. The proof of this he states is the similarities between Jesus' acts in the Bible, and Titus acts when he got to Judea. But he only actually states one: they both went to the Sea of Galilee. Not much of a proof.

That's about it. He does not once actually refute or disprove the actual existence of Jesus, or the evidence of him actually existing when he did. In fact none of this does, the entire thing is one massive speculation. Essentially attempting to re-attribute authorship of the gospels based on literary analysis alone.

He states that the purpose of this fake invention of Christianity, was to pacify Judea and thereby increase the hold of Rome on the Jews.

Hmmm. There's a slight problem with that rationale. Firstly, the Jews rebelled again in two massive and huge wars that shook the entire empire (115 and 133), he admits this himself.

Secondly, in terms of Christianity and the rest of the Empire apart from Judea, Edward Gibbon in his definitive work 'The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' states that Christianity was the entire CAUSE of the fall of the Roman Empire. Yes. Christ's spiritual Empire destroyed the Roman Empire. So either it was a massive and disastrous backfire, or maybe this whole theory is bunk.

What it amounts to is an attempt to wish away the reality of Christ.

Finally, Christ is King of Heaven, not of Earth. No 'evidence' is sufficient to remove Him from his true Kingdom - mens' hearts.

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

Satanism - the other Abrahamic religion

Sometime ago, I heard about two Russian students who layered the Book of Kings overtop the history of Romans kings and got an exact match. I think you might be able to track down the article somewhere online.

Like I said, if you are truly certain in your faith... a faith that must recognize the spirit in ALL THAT IS CREATED and even that is yet to be CREATED... you would not have a problem with this information.

How big is your God?

Find out about Christianity and astro-theology from Santos Bonacci and Bill Donahue. Don't give me crap about 'it's idolatry'.
Practically, all my life, I've been searching for the true meaning of Jesus, God and the bible...round about Oct 2012, I discovered these two men on YouTube. wow!

Pagans?... Pagan is an old word referring to 'people from the countryside'... When the TPTB were pushing organized religion in major city hubs, they found the pagans in the countryside were a hard sell. LOL!

Well I think its clear where your agenda is coming from.

And it is not coming from what is good, but from satanism. Certainly that is where Bonacci et al are coming from. I believe you are trying to distract us from finding strength in Christ for Liberty. You worship satan if you want to, I will decline.

"What fellowship has darkness with light?" 2 Corinthians 6

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

Thunderbolt of the Gods

ps: you need to grow up and stop calling people satanists every time you hear something you've never heard before. i'm sure God, Jesus and Ron Paul would prefer their followers to KNOW the truth about something or someone as opposed to spreading assumptions and lies.

Anyhoo, the astro-theology guys talk about the planet Saturn being the inspiration for Satan. They also claim Saturn gives off maleficent radio waves which negatively effect situations here on earth.

Check out 'Thunderbolt of the Gods' on YouTube and on the Web. This is the next paradigm shift in astronomy and physics, WHETHER you like it or not.

They claim the universe is ELectro-MAGnetic. What we refer to as gravity will eventually be described as an aspect of Electricity. (ELohim and mary MAGdalene... it's all in the bible...but how would you know...you have never read it that way!!!!!)

After researching all ancient mythologies from around the world in combination with studying the nature of the present day universe, they have come to the conclusion, the so called planet Saturn was at one point our Sun, then huge things happened, it became a brown dwarf sun and our galaxy began to revolve around the sun we know today.

... Of course there is much more to this... you should check it out.

Oh yeah, you're right.

Ron Paul must be an idiot for believing in nonsense like his religion. He's obviously too dumb to be tuned into the deception. And he's obviously never been privy to the profound information you are providing here.

(eyeroll, obvious irony)

you seem a little disturbed about this information

Kinda like when I was telling my brother about the fraudulent money system and the crimes committed by banksters because of fractional reserve banking.

Funny enough after a retort similar to yours, he rolled his eyes.


He never did inspect the information I gave him, including links to Ron Paul videos and books on the subject of money.

...I guess you will never inspect this information either.

Oh well.

Oh quite the contrary....

I'm fully aware of the information PRESENTED. However, there are unstated assumptions and conclusions made which dont all stand up, nor it is wholly historically accurate. That said not all of it is wrong either, but you miss the point.

And, no it's an entirely different reaction than with the fraudulent money system as that is easily demonstrable and evidenced unlike the supposedly religious expose links provided.

Do you think Ron Paul himself is unware of anything you presented?

i can hardly believe

....that you are familiar with the information PRESENTED.

Either, you listened to all three hours worth of interviews or you didn't.

Either you are curious about Jesus or you are not.

Santos Bonacci has great lectures on the nature of Jesus posted on YouTube.
Also, Bill Donahue.

Go ahead expand your mind. I wager, if you really were 100% certain in your beliefs, you would have no problem reviewing information presented by scholars that challenge the information you have thus far been exposed to.

What you afraid of? ... a paradigm shift?

Don't stress over FBIexposer.

Don't stress over FBIexposer. In general he is immune to learning and facts. If he did watch what you posted, he was in "read only" mode, so naturally its not going to sink into his head any more than the definition of "collectivism" or "straw man" will.

Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experiance.

And here is a Podcast on

And here is a Podcast on Bigfoot:

The strength of the Liberty

The strength of the Liberty movement is in Christ the Constitution!

But has that been sufficient?

I ask you. The Constitution is still in place today, yet does America have Liberty? It is not enough. There are darker forces out there that wish to destroy and undermine the Constitution, and they are succeeding. The only thing that can defeat them, is Jesus Christ.

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

I guess we are doomed then....

....because Jesus never even existed. I hate to sound like a jerk, but I get a little annoyed when this sort of stuff comes up in the liberty movement. I thought liberty and freedom were logical and reasonable ideas which we could support using our brains, not our faith.
This is the same kind of stuff Republicans say all the time which alienates fiscal conservatives who would otherwise support them. I'm atheist and I'd hate to think that this cause which I've been so passionate about depends on the existence of something I can't prove.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Exactly my point.

Atheists always lose. Sorry but its true. In fact they would rather lose, than admit they need God. Atheism is a death wish. Luckily Christ does exist, and with him as our strength, we DO have the option to prevail, if we will accept his leadership.

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

If there is no God...

...then Liberty loses in the end, when the universe undergoes heat death. Even if it succeeds in being spread through the solar system and beyond, it can't outrun physics forever. The end of the story is bleak, from that ultimate perspective.

I believe the end of the story is good, and that true Love and Liberty will triumph in the long run.

How bleak...

...the end is has nothing to do with truth. We don't get to say what is true based simply on how happy or sad we are about it. As far as the universe ending, thus, liberty ending, that is like saying my life will end, therefore my liberty will end. If I'm just going to die, why even care about being free while I'm alive, right? Well, I'm alive now, and the universe is still here, so I still care about being free, no matter if I die tomorrow, or if the universe ends tomorrow.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).


Your tongue-in-cheek comment about the movement being doomed since Jesus doesn't exist, just reminded me that an atheistic view necessitates doom in the end, whereas the theistic view gives Life, Love and Liberty the ultimate victory. I think you will be pleasantly surprised if you discover the latter is true, after all? :)