8 votes

Bitcoin

(disclaimer: I'm not a Bitcoin expert. Below is just from what I understand of it)

Some people push Bitcoin ("Lew Rockwell even accepts it for donations!") but I have a feeling it's a dangerous idea. Wouldn't the government absolutely *LOVE* the idea of a fiat currency that they can track its usage of electronically? Sure, the government doesn't control and/or bitcoin right now but they might decide it's in their best interest to. I almost could see this being a GSE (government sponsored entity like Fannie and Freddie). The owners of Bitcoin would probably become incredibly wealthy from this but the government would require control of the money supply, ability to automatically debit customer accounts (to put the citizens under their thumb), and to spy on every transaction.

The way I see it - electronic currency is dangerous.



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Nothing different from now.

Nothing different from now.

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

Wrong

Bitcoin will collapse as the market for bitcoin spreads to the other available currencies, especially those seen as more safe.

I like bitcoin, but I have a real concern about the privacy. Everyone says it's private except that every transaction is public. It would and will be easy for government agencies to track down the owners of the wallets engaged in transactions. No?

Sorry ghost ...

But you are right and wrong at the same time: wallets work with open source encryption (public key encryption).

(Thanks to the comment above here is a good video explaining public key encryption:)

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3QnD2c4Xovk&desktop_uri=%2Fwa...

The public key is public but there's no way to be able to trace it back to ones identity. The private key on the other hand is what constitutes the ownership of the wallet- which is important to keep track of. The public key can be changed as many times as you like making what the public believe as if your wallet "vanished". Actually bitcoin Qt the original software does this automatically every time you start up the program. Your private key is what you need to care for the most and you need to keep track of it for it changes after every single transaction.

The moment you change your public key then you changed your identity on the block chain. This whole previous method is part of the system and answers your concern even if an individual keeps the same wallet.

Now if you want to be even more cautious- make a payment to yourself into another wallet or wallets. There would be no way of knowing if you made a payment to someone else or actually just moved money around to another one of your wallets.

It takes time man. I'm still learning. So to end your concern the block chain is open to everyone but no one knows who owns what wallet.

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

Thank you for addressing my

Thank you for addressing my concern.

But I'm also concerned about a bitcoin bubble. I see the current price as rapidly inflating to the point of bursting. I see a lot of damage being done to bitcoin as a result. This goes back to another issue I have, that at this point the market is so small that the FED or any other large organization that wants to could corner the market and destroy it by bidding up the price. We might be seeing this today.

Transactions are public(good

Transactions are public(good thing, transparency, like having an Audit The Fed bill that actually works). But you are anonymous, what you buy with it is anonymous. The two participating accounts are anonymous. When you do something with a bitcoin, it is as anonymous as you make it.

I'm upvoting this topic

I'm upvoting this topic despite the misinformation simply to help dispell some of the Bitcoin ignorance around these parts.

Here is the NUMBER 1 MOST IMPORTANT FACT ABOUT BITCOIN:

It can not be controlled by any one entity.

As a 'peer-to-peer' (P2P) network, all users of Bitcoin _MUST_ agree to a common protocol. This includes details such as the scheduled roll-out of coins, the encyption used, even how much everyone has available to spend (though the leger provides for anonymity).

The beauty of the system is that no single user can change this protocol. Not even a handful of users can change it. It will take a consensus of users to agree to a new protocol of Bitcoin... a highly unlikely occurrence, especially given that the reason many of us are using Bitcoin is to escape from tyrannical centrally-controlled money.

Users vote for a new protocol via their client (essentially, the payment app) they choose to use. If someone nefarious writes a client app which threatens the properties of Bitcoin that make it a unique and valuable currency, users simply will not use the client.

Needless to say, it is very, very difficult to make any changes to Bitcoin's rules.

-Jix

"The owners of Bitcoin"

Find out who the "The owners of Bitcoin" are and you will begin to see why its a brilliant idea. Not a bad one.

No one owns it not even the government. It's an idea; it's a protocol. It's a set of rules that no one can change with decree or at will not even those that started it.

“I’m fully diversified. I’ve got some under the mattress, some under the floor boards, some in the backyard.”

I have 2 BTC, I am one of the "owners" :)

I love being such a powerful "owner"

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

The wiki seems very vague as to "mining"...

who can mine, how to mine, control of the mining, etc.

This fiat currency seems like it could be worse than what we use now.

Bitcoin is not fiat... just letting you know.

Please read into it, even here at the Daily Paul, many a times people have explained this... or you can look here:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bitcoins_don.27t_solve_any_...

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]

If Bitcoin

is fiat then so is gold, because they both get value the same way: from the free market.

Fiat means "by decree, or order" which usually comes from a government. The U.S. dollar gets value because the government says it is legal tender to pay debt. That gives it automatic value without bothering to ask the free market.

Gold on the other hand doesn't get value because of what any government says. Same thing with Bitcoin.

As for who can mine, how to mine, control of the mining etc. That too is similar to gold. The answer is that anyone can do it, and nobody controls all of it. However, competition is now pretty fierce for Bitcoin mining, and it's usually done now by those interested in specializing. For average people it's easier to get bitcoins other ways, like working for them or buying them. I've personally never mined and found bitcoins, although I use them.

Way easier than gold mining

Mining is not that complex. It took me a few hours of research and experimentation to get it going.

I have two computers with fairly nice graphics processors (GPUs). They are all the equipment I needed for mining. The software is all free.

First, you need a Bitcoin wallet. I downloaded and installed Bitcoin-QT. it's fairly easy to use.

Next, you join a mining pool. This step is not absolutely necessary, but it has some advantages. I decided to go with BitCoinCZ.

Next you download and install mining software. I chose guiminer because of its ease of use.

On my older computer, I had to upgrade to the latest device drivers for my graphics card before guiminer could use it.

Configuring guiminer required a combination of searching the online documentation and some guesswork. The documentation is weak.

Once it's working the way you want it, you save the configuration, and it starts up automatically on reboot.

I'm not going to get rich this way, as this only brings in about a dollar a day, but its essentially free money. The GPUs were just sitting there, barely used. Might as well take the money!

However, I'm enjoying it so much that I have ordered one of those $1300 mining rigs so I can mine 1000 times faster.

It will be like switching from a low-investment gold panning operation to a small gold mine with specialized equipment.

I know this whole computer "mining" idea seems pointless, but giving control of the currency to the entire distributed computing network is what prevents governments and other nefarious organizations from controlling it. That's why I really want to be a bigger player, to do my part to make sure the rich and powerful cannot stop Bitcoin!

For newbies...

I recommend they start with another software such as:
Strong coin
Multibit
Blockchain
Electrum

Qt is good if you are computer savvy.

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

OT, but funny stuff

I worked for a time at Nokia, and once in a while I'd overhear a conversation that would go something like this:

"What should we do?"
"I don't know, let's ask the Qt guys."
"Yeah, maybe the Qt guys will know what to do."

Ha. Always had to stop working for a minute or so after hearing something like that.

bitcoin to gold

is easier than cash to gold
http://www.coinabul.com/

-quiet engineer

I noticed that

Silk Road takes Bit Coin

Sorry.

Wake me when I can pay a human being staffed utility company or competitively priced supplier.
I just don't need elf shoes or a Mason jar of unicorn fart I have to buy from a hobbit.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

Unresearched, unsolicited

dumbass comment. You have no idea what you're talking about and it shows. SORRY for calling you out, but I want people that make comments like yours gone from the DP. That wasn't even an opinion, it was just garbage.

Just my 2 Bernanke's. Thanks.

-US Army Veteran for a better DP

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

Many businesses accept Bitcoin

Here's a list of a few thousand businesses that accept Bitcoin. There are many others, growing every day, but these are the ones someone has collected in a list so far. I have not checked the entire list, but I did not see any mention of hobbits.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

Bitspend.net

Allows you to shop at ANY online retailer

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

This post just goes to show

The incredible ignorance when it comes to Bitcoin and it's platform.

Your questions and concerns are invalid.

It's like asking shouldn't we be concerned that our chicken will start barking like a dog..

Does the post show

...how bitcoins will never, ever catch on because of the confusion they create in the minds of typical consumers?

Or will everything be hunky-dory in bitcoin land once everyone stops being so stupid and grabs onto some good old fashioned faith? Or, maybe, is it to be "bitcoin education camp" for everyone touched by the light of such a glorious crypto-dawn?

Does Prometheus have a facespook wall? Are there enough mining servers out there to calculate a thousand points of light?

What happens when the price of bitcoin reaches 666?

Ok but can you enlighten me then?

Why are my questions/concerns invalid? Please elaborate.

(note: I'm not saying that in a sarcastic manner. I really am interested in hearing your points)

Sure, I'll answer

To the point about tracking... it's very possible to use Bitcoin completely anonymously. It's done every day in fact by users of a site called Silk Road which openly sells any drug imaginable and trades exclusively in Bitcoin, which makes it all possible. See here for a news clip about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmiBzvW4P40

As for being able to control it, no one can due to the way it works. It's decentralized - it works by all the people that make it up. Instead of explaining it technologically think of it like the people in a stadium doing the "wave". The wave is a single thing, but it only exists if all the people do it a certain way. Imagine a government trying to force all people in a country to do a "wave" which the government owned. This would never happen unless all the people agreed to do exactly what the government said. Bitcoin works in a similar way. I hope that makes sense.

Another way to think of it is like gold. Imagine a government claiming it will control all the world's gold. That can't happen. Gold exists in nature and is available to all that seek it out.

wanna bet Silk Road is run by

wanna bet Silk Road is run by the CIA? Haha ;)

do you know how a peer to peer network works?

Any one can put up a new machine somewhere and generate all the new addresses aka accounts they want.

They wanted to destroy both Napster and torrents.

Napster was centralized so it was toast.

Torrents were and are not, and so are still around and have held their own. That's the power of decentralized peer 2 peer.

I like competing currencies

I won't be using bitcoin however because you would think that we have learned that with a currency, being able to HOLD IT and it actually be worth some sort of VALUE makes the bitcoin seem like the exact OPPOSITE of what a "free" currency would look like.

If the net goes down so does your wallet no matter what people try and state otherwise.

What if the us says anyone using bitcoins will go to jail, or that they ban just the bitcoin processes online?

For folks to think that the IMF will let bitcoin go GLOBAL and take over without them having a hand in it then that's on you and your investments.

My investments will not be in virtual b.s. though.

http://shelfsufficient.com - My site on getting my little family prepped for whatever might come our way.

http://growing-elite-marijuana.com - My site on growing marijuana

Very many people

hold "physical bitcoins", including myself. See here:

https://www.casascius.com/

BS?

It's much more gold then sh*t.

Pick a better substance analogy.