14 votes

A difficult question for my fellow Catholics in faith.

I'm a life long Catholic. It is my faith. It will remain my faith.

I'm sure you're aware of the Vatican document, "Toward Reforming the International Financial and Monetary Systems in the Context of Global Public Authority," that was released in 2011 that recommended items such as forming a global government, creating a world bank, and redistributing wealth through out the entire world of nations. See Catholic News Story for specifics: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1104173.htm

I realize that humans have frailties and the church is made up of men. I've always understood that Jesus mistrusted the government and that men are instructed to do good out of free will, and not by force.

It pains me to ask this, but my question to you is, how are you able to reconcile your faith with that which we believe to be true about freedom and all that freedom entails?



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Kind of interesting but

Kind of interesting but there's more misinformation there than not, just through the first 3rd of it so far

My Experience

I was at a mass in a big Cathedral several months ago. After the mass the priest asked for a show of hands. He wanted to know if any college students were present. Everyone one looked around and none was around to raise their hand. Needless to say the priest and his help were very much dismayed.

It was an evening mass and there were about 100 people there imo.

The Catholic Church really needs to do make some changes I think.

I would suggest getting back to basics.

donvino

Catholic here

While the Church's moral dictates must be obeyed (this includes the uncomfortable ones), the policy recommendations are a matter of prudential judgement. As far as I know, there is no moral dictate to create a world government, this is simply a policy recommendation that can be analyzed for utility and if found to be lacking, ignored in favor of more utilitarian methods.

When you follow the edicts of men...

You are following the edicts of men - regardless of whether a god exists or not.

The Catholic establishment also used political force to refuse the validity of the heliocentric universe. Divinely sanctioned? A big fat NO!

Yes, I am aware of that document

I am Catholic first, an American second.

The longevity if the Cathoic Church shows us that governments come and go. In my Church, there are families who have resided in the area for over 300 years by documents of the Catholic Church. They were Mexicans and became Americans in 1850 when CA joined the Union.

Catholic, as you know, translates to Universal. The Catholic Church is a global Church. The Church encourages us to travel and anyone who travels knows money transactions from country to country can be difficult, especially in places that are corrupt. The Church is always being audited by every government, including Communist China and other communist countries, where, as the government's money fluctuates, so does the gross net value of the Church.

The Church is also aware that in most countires, it is a minority. It will follow the laws of the land to the best of it's ability to administer to those in our faith.

America, for example is a puritan Country, Christian, not Cathoic.. and the Church is well aware of the resistance it recieves. If Catholics would find relief from a global currancy, that's the last thing the host country s government seemingly wants to give to the Church, least they help the Church expand.

So I do not make too much of this.. I see it as the Church is willing to work with a global government /UN,or not, as long as it can minister FAITH, CHARITY, MERCY, HOPE and LOVE. THOSE our are goals.

To serve God as best we can.

If after Davos, the World Bank and UN decide to have a global currancy, I will comply, as the Church will comply. There is God and our Church, and there is The World. The World without end.. as it has been, and will be forever and ever.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=502480

After all.. do you really love America's Fiat currancy and FRNs? What if the new global currancy was gold? Of course that is what the Church would prefer.

Perfect. Your comment is pure

Perfect. Your comment is pure gold. You helped me, Granger. Thank you so much for the link. Now I can put this post to rest.

Thank you to everyone who tried to help answer my question. Daily Paul is truly the greatest!

What man has authority other than Christ to be intercessor?

Do you need a pope, a priest, a pastor, a preacher to find God's grace?

Is not Christ enough for you, for God to have mercy on your soul?

Isn't anyone else who puts on such a robe merely an evil impostor, a swindler; one destined to the lake of fire?

.

Cathoic Church is apolstolic

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/apostolic-succession

As Catholics we believe in a trinity, three in one, God the Father ALL MIGHTY, LORD of Heaven and Earth Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit.

Jesus IS God.

We also believe in miracles, and those who have performed miracles are saints. Mother Mary is a saint, for she gave herself completely to God, asking no questions, only replying, "YOUR WILL BE DONE". Her immaculate conception gave the world a God in Jesus Christ who came to us as a helpless baby. And Joseph, witnessed it all and supported her at a time, when he had every right to abandon her and cast her out.

We PRAY to Jesus for many things, but we also ask angels and saints to help us because they are closer to Jesus than we are. We are sinners who Christ heals, takes away our sins. Jesus is THE JUDGE.

I adore my Church very very much. I LOVE my preist and my bishop and parrish, and I THANK GOD to be so blessed to be in communion with people who pray, worship, praise and glorify our Lord Jesus Christ.

As a Universal Church, we accept ALL baptisms. I am never alone even when no one is around me. The LOVE, PEACE, HAPPINESS and GOOD things my FAITH brings me.. is so precious. All I can pray for you is to be as in love, grateful and happy as I am.

If you are.,. PRAISE GOD! And GOD BLESS YOU!!!!

Granger. I was about to ask

Granger. I was about to ask to have this thread deleted. But your comments are just too good to be deleted. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, Granger and RealDeal,

I am a Believer in Christ first, an American second. Please do me the favor of reading my entire reply, regardless of whether you respond or not.

“Mother Mary is a saint...We PRAY to Jesus for many things, but we also ask angels and saints to help us because they are closer to Jesus than we are.”

Can you tell me the Scripture references where you find in God's Word that He ever once says that any of his angels, saints, or Mary bring Him requests that He doesn't know about and that He answers them because of who's asking? God is omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (always present), and omnipotent (all-powerful). Where does it even say that the saints or Mary have any power to intercede? Besides this, saints are redeemed sinners, since the Bible says in Romans 3:23 that “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” It doesn't say “All have sinned except Mary and come short of the glory of God.” The trinity is the ONLY one without sin. The Holy Spirit intercedes with groanings that cannot be uttered: but again, He is one of the Trinity.

While the angels, saints, Mary, and our departed saved loved ones (saints), may be closer in proximity to God (Heaven), they cannot intercede for anyone on earth. The Bible says in 1 Timothy 2:5 there is only “one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Furthermore, if we are saved (humbly have put all our trust, not in baptism, communion, or the other five sacraments, but in Christ alone to be saved from hell and destined for heaven) THEN we are just as close to God through this personal relationship with Jesus. He is our High Priest.

So if one wants their prayers answered, according to Scripture, they should stop praying to graven images and pray directly to Christ, the Mediator. As for graven images, those little statues or necklace pendants of saints or Mary really violate the 2nd Commandment: “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God...” Exodus 20:4-5a

Well, this is a problem for the Catholic church – they'd lose the profit from all the saint replicas they sell, so they took that Commandment out of the 10 Commandments. I kid you not – the 2nd Commandment (Exodus 20:4-6) is missing from the Catholic 10 commandments! Problem. They only had 9 Commandments then, so they “solved” that temporarily (not in eternity) by splitting the real 10th Commandment “Thou shalt not covet” into their number 9 & 10 – thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife (9) and thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods (10). Incidentally, that's not even a natural division the Catholic Church capitalized on. The order not to covet in Exodus 20:17 is not listed wife, then everything else – it is listed: house (like household), wife, manservant, maidservant, ox, ass, anything that is thy neighbors. (and a wife is anything that is thy neighbors. The 10th commandment according to Scripture is “Thou shalt not covet”.)

And besides all this, don't you think it grieves the Saviour's heart that he suffered so very much on the cross to save you completely only to have you pray to others of His creation that cannot help you? I KNOW they cannot help you because again the Bible says there is only ONE Mediator. One. The blessed Christ.
If you're going to be Catholic, please be saved, Biblical, and educate others of the truth. Thanks.

PS I know of no Christian denomination that has any plans like the Catholic Church “to forming a global government, creating a world bank, and redistributing wealth through out the entire world of nations.” (actually it sounds like something out of the book, Creature from Jekyll Island)

In fact, those plans are in direct opposition to the Christian's role at the end of the age – please read the book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible. It is Satan's plan to have one-world government, monetary system, etc...so if the Catholic church's plotted path is already on the wrong side of the war in Revelation, then that might just be a bad sign. You're patriots. You know in your gut – this is why you posted the question – that this is wrong. And if a religion has deceived you into thinking even Catholic enslavement is an exception, or even justified, then maybe this is your epiphany.

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know (not think or hope, but know) that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” 1 John 5:13 (parenthesis mine)

Hi Revolutionaies

I will pray for you. God Bless You.

I've been praying for both of you, too...

May the Lord bless you and reveal His truth to you.

Get this (((((Revolutionaries))))))

After this thread, I went to Church. Father Sean's homily went like this:

There was a young couple who were planning to be married. The woman was Catholic and her fiance was not. He was a surfer, and one day they had gone to the beach, and she watched him surfing, when a shark attacked him. He struggled to shore, and as he lay there bleeding to death, waiting for medical help, the woman thought he might die, so she grabbed her bottle of drinking water and baptised him.

Medical help arrived and the surfer recoved from the bite. A year passed and they were ready to marry. They went to the Preist who asked if the surfer was baptized. The couple said "Yes!" The preist saw no record of the surfer's baptism and told the couple that he would not marry them until the surfer was baptised. The woman protested. They took the matter up to the Bishop. The Bishop approved the baptism of the woman to the surfer and the couple were able to marry.

How was it possible? WE ARE ALL PREISTS. WE ARE ALL ENDOWED WITH THE POWER TO BAPTISE IN THE NAME OF JESUS BECAUSE JESUS SAVES. JESUS IS OUR LORD GOD and it is his word, his judgement, his will that we must most concern ourselves.

http://bible.cc/matthew/7-5.htm

Abundant and consant blessings to you ((((Revolutionaies)))))

((((((((((realdeal)))))))

Thank God.. it's pretty apparent he LOVES you and is hearing your cry for understanding, answering your call for help, looking over you, in the name of LOVE. GOD BLESS YOU and keep you in communion.

Are you sure compartmentalize is the word you want to use..

or would reconcile be more appropriate? Regardless, the document you refer to is cause for concern, deserving more research into who (in the Vatican) produced it (the Peace and Justice crowd tends to be rather liberal), what it actually says and whether or not it was issued as a matter of an official opinion, and whether or not most of the members are in agreement. As in our civil gov't here, just because someone introduces a bill does not mean that it reflects the opinion or position of the gov't.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Yes. Reconcile is a much

Yes. Reconcile is a much better word. Are you a Catholic? I liked that you said that perhaps this document is not official church opinion. That helped. Thank you.

From the article....

"At a news conference Oct. 24, the Vatican spokesman, Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, emphasized that the document was "not an expression of papal magisterium," but instead was an "authoritative note of a Vatican agency," the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace. In that sense, he said, it would not be correct to report that "Pope Benedict says" what's in the document, he said."

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

I am Catholic

I answer to my Lord. Even God let Noah live knowing he was sinful.I ask God for forgiveness for my sins.Even though a Priest.One day it will be just me at my day of reckoning.No on else involved except my forgiving Lord and Savior. I pray he finds favour in me like Noah.

Money talks and dogs bark

jrd3820's picture

I grew up Catholic

I do not really practice anymore. The Vatican is a governing body and an authoritative one at that.

When the Vatican pushes for things that are so obviously against your political views, remember, they are not pushing that from a religious angle, they are pushing it from a power hungry governing body angle and you do not have to agree with it or answer to it.

When the Vatican comes out to play with the rest of the world powers, no matter what they say, they are not acting as representatives of faith, they are acting as power hungry rulers.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

I brought a somewhat similar

I brought a somewhat similar question up to my former pastor once. His response was abrupt and didn't help. I just thought maybe some fellow Catholics might have some wise words for me.

jrd3820's picture

Oh yeah...

The pastor's usually abruptly change the subject if they cannot answer the question.

I understand what you are struggling with in your head. I wish I could be more helpful here, but I do not have an answer for you.

Do not let the Vatican intimidate you.

Love yourself, Love Christ (if you choose Christ and Christianity), and love others and you will be fine.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Great question!

I am not Catholic but I respect your courage in seeking truth.

Bump

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

It took me a long time before

It took me a long time before I could hit the submit button, Jackie. I just let my post sit there for awhile. I felt like I was wrong some how to say out loud something that has been bothering me.

me too

I have written several posts, some far too long, that have gone away without being posted. Well done.

I visited the Vatican a couple of years ago. I will never forget the beggars outside the fortified walls or the finely dressed priests with their fancy shoes and briefcases that walked right by. Let the catholic church put their money where their mouth is on this one. A position is shown by action, without which the written word can lose its punch.