77 votes

An Anarchist's Frustration

You believe that war is just when an American flag is present on the battlefield. I do not.

You say that taxation is the price we pay for civilization. I disagree.

You claim that men with guns and badges have a higher claim on my life and property because they were elected, or appointed, to a position of power. I am offended.

You think that an organization who has the final say in any disagreement, even involving itself; a monopoly on aggressive force; the sole power to declare legal tender; and the ability to fund itself through involuntary means isn't going to abuse this power? I know better.

Yet somehow, I am the idealist?

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I know many liberty lovers are not anarchists, as I am, but surely you understand my frustration when someone claims, "Oh, you're just being idealistic."




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You're not listening at all,

You're not listening at all, liar. You're just going on angry rants at anyone who disagrees with you. You don't even read what they have to say. You label anyone who replies to you an anarchist regardless of whether they are even remotely close.

Freedom in our lifetime! - fiol.us

I still don't hear how Ron Paul is an Anarchist

I still don't hear how Ron Paul is an Anarchist, because Anarchists are liars and frauds who hide behind liberty, yet do it no service, and in fact attack anything that does liberty ANY service. He was a Congressman and Representative, a member of the government and serving the people, a Constitutionalist, a Libertarian and Republican trying to defend liberty with government and doing it by debating the use of collective force and limited government.

He has no problem with governments defending their own borders, serving justice, or defending the rights of their people.

Anarchists are WORTHLESS to liberty because they won't defend liberty with the only thing that can, collective force, and they argue against justice, disavowing unwanted interaction, pretending mans covetous nature doesn't exist so thus we never have to deal with them. They want to destroy government and replace it with a free market of coercion and violence, and covetous people will have NO PROBLEM operating within that system. They WANT THAT SYSTEM.

The free market does not serve justice, and covetous people hate justice. The free market serves VALUE and the best way to create value with violence and coercion is SLAVERY because productive labor is where value is born.

A free market of violence serving the principle of self interest will serve mans covetous nature and whichever man has the most money wins. Might will make right, so slavery and the products of slavery will be normalized in a world without justice.

Anarchy is a fraud born from those who think they're surrounded by sheep and soulless animals, something to be preyed on and ridiculed, to be fed upon in a free market of coercion and violence serving the principle of self interest, but the only thing it will serve is the self interest and covetous nature of the Anarchists who buy and use coercion and violence to get what they unjustly want; power.

You aren't fit to vote, and that's about the only GOOD thing that comes from Anarchism, fewer Anarchists vote or take part in the debate because all they want to do is destroy something they NEVER understood.

Probably because you are

Probably because you are utterly confused, because I NEVER SAID THAT! Ron Paul is not, not, NOT an anarchist!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE FUCKING CONFUSED AND ARGUING WITH THE WRONG PERSON. CLEAR YOUR HEAD FOR A SEC AND RE-READ!!!!!!!! And then consider that you might be comprehending something completely and utterly WRONG next time you want to go off on someone for something they didn't even close to say! You're an idiot!

Freedom in our lifetime! - fiol.us

"Ron Paul is not, not, NOT an anarchist!!!!!!!!!"

Scroll up and you'll find the guy you should of screamed that at, but you didn't. You said NOTHING! You started attacking ME calling me a liar. Are you surprised that I assume you're an Anarchist? Are you?

"CLEAR YOUR HEAD FOR A SEC AND RE-READ!"

I read your comment the first time. Don't pretend you did anything but attack me, and here you are, back again, running your foul mouth at me.

"YOU ARE FUCKING CONFUSED AND ARGUING WITH THE WRONG PERSON."

I'm not confused nor was I attacking the wrong person. You were.

I have debated several of

I have debated several of them as well, albeit in a far more civil manner than you have. You come out here attacking people with vile hatred! There is no place for that whether you are right or wrong. The things you are saying make absolutely no sense whatsoever. You are an angry fool, and yes, you were completely and UTTERLY confused. Even after like 7 posts trying to tell you I was NOT an anarchist you still insisted I was. You are the one attacking people, not me. You attacked me first because of some misconceived notions of yours. It was only by stating it in all caps on my title that you paid any attention to it at all, and you still ignore the substance of the rest. No one likes you, not even me and I agree with you. That's kind of my point. Quit being such an ass.

Freedom in our lifetime! - fiol.us

Ron Paul is a Voluntarist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoUrrlbDoVs

At least watch it before you reply with another one of your nauseatingly ignorant diatribes.

P.S.

You and your comment history are living proof that people with the most blatantly idiotic opinions, are usually those who proclaim them the loudest and most obnoxiously.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Send me a link where Ron Paul says he's an Anarchist

Send me a link where Ron Paul says he's an Anarchist, and I will proceed to destroy Ron Paul along with all of his little Anarchist stooges.

Point me towards ANY REPRESENTATIVE who calls himself an Anarchist, and I will remove them from our Government because they are attempting to destroy what they swore under oath to protect, our laws. They want to rule men in a free market of violence and coercion and are doing everything they can to destroy what they swore to defend, the people and our government.

They want dominion over man using collective force bought and sold to the highest bidder in a free market of coercion and violence.

I say you're right. I'll bet there are lots of Anarchists in our Government, but they're cowards who know they'll face justice should they ever mistakenly speak out about their political affiliation. You on the other hand aren't as smart, and like a jackass sing out about how you're an enemy of our country and anti-government.

Voluntarist is a code word for "liberty without justice" which is a meaningless and failed idea. So maybe Ron Paul IS just a fraud and liar who used people to betray the office he held?

Convince me?

Nobody who takes peoples liberty with violence wants to be stopped by justice, by force, by something they would never voluntarily submit to. Justice is imposed on voluntarists who chose to take somebodies liberty with force, and Anarchists want a free market of coercion and violence so that they can do just that without facing justice themselves.

Yes, you can refuse to pay taxes, and go live in a tree as far as I care, but don't ever pretend that the rest of humanity gives a damn what you think or want, and you're more than welcome to climb down out of your tree once you remember that you're a man not a monkey.

So everybody who believes that voluntary interaction is a good thing is an Anarchist now aye? So all those people defending liberty with force, serving justice are Anarchists, everybody who defends the innocent against a covetous man taking liberty with force is an Anarchist...

An Anarchist is a very specific thing that hides behind words like voluntarist while they try to use people to destroy, so as liars and destroyers they will be destroyed.

More lies reapeated as nauseum

.

and everything from security

and everything from security to the law would be provided by private means instead of monopolies... in fact the Constitution is a socialist document... the government runs legislatures, law, courts, even the post office.

Idealist

Anarchists and Libertarians and small government people need to work together. The divisions between us are not as big as our real opponents.

Using the term idealist is just a way of dismissing out of hand someone's opinion. An idealist is just someone with principles, the alternative is to have no principle on which your ideas are founded.

Note that the chance that something is unlikely to happen, does not mean it cannot happen.

In the U.K we have set up a party to unite those who want to downsize government. www.proliberty.org.uk

(this different than my own website listed below)

Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/youownyou (quotes)
Website: http://www.own-yourself.com

I work AGAINST those trying to destroy my country.

NOT WITH THEM.

Anarchist are frauds who want to use people to destroy America and Constitution. They don't want to fix anything. They ridicule the very idea of small government or fixing anything. What they want is a mob to hide and use to serve their agenda, destruction.

Screw em. Keep them away from me, Ron Paul, and anybody who advocates liberty, because they are WORTHLESS to liberty, and a cancer amongst those who want to fix anything.

They want to be users and destroyers, so let them now be destroyed. It's a justice thing.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

Chill Pill Time !

Ok, everyone cool down. I'm sure we can have a meaningful discussion. I have only ONE question to those who believe in the "authority of the state". WHERE does the state derive it's "authority"?

Please respond with a serious argument and refrain from name-calling.

From "necessity"

From "necessity". The same place the Father derives his authority.

Ventura 2012

A father's authority comes

A father's authority comes from the fact that his child hasn't fully developed mentally and has limited experience and knowledge of the world.

If you're saying that adults have the same deficiencies, then you must explain where you expect to find these superior beings that SHOULD be running our gov't..... and you'd have to explain why we are letting mere humans run the show while your looking for superman.

Saying,"people are evil" is no justification for letting said people have power over others. It doesn't even make sense. Fear of your neighbor, which is real, can be used to logically justify a gov't, though, but, without that fear, it has no purpose. It's nothing more than a parasite.

"I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."

Authority

It derives its authority from those who want to be ruled. And it has the authority to rule over ONLY those who consent to be ruled and no one else.

Again, anarcho capitalists are libertarians, too

Seriously? Someone down-voted this? Anarchists are an integral part of the libertarianism and always have been. I'm not one, but I'm sympathetic and understand their scepticism of government. I admire their intellectuals' creative ways of pushing the envelope on finding ways to privatize traditionally government services. They help find new ways we could limit government even further.

Anarchists are also an

Anarchists are also an integral part of communism and always have been

Ventura 2012

To so label anarchist is communist thinking.

Identify and hate a collective is the core of Marxist teaching.

Then this can be used as an excuse for atrocities to be committed.

Free includes debt-free!

Paul, I like you but this is

Paul, I like you but this is a misdirection.

Ventura 2012

Marx was all about creating 'us vs them'.

He was seeking violent revolution.

The oppressor vs the oppressed.

Are anarchists the oppressor or the oppressed?

Free includes debt-free!

I'm prolly as close

to an anarcho capitalist as one can get without diving all the way into the deep end.

I believe "night-watchman" functions are perfectly appropriate for a government that has been instituted by the people. I see little benefit in privatizing fire departments... for instance. It just makes little difference to me either way.

The authority for any government has to be derived from the willful consent of the governed. And again, a limit just actions of the state solely to "night-watchman" functions.

free market economics,

free market economics, austrian economics tells us that if the fire department was privatived then more fires would be put out more quickly and at a cheaper cost... making us all richer and safer. Too bad most people here wont even step into Ron Pauls economics... Ron Paul is a anarchist

The only people telling

The only people telling absolute lies in this debate are the Anarchists claiming that Ron Paul is an anarchist. Get over yourselves you fanatics.

Ventura 2012

There seems to be two meanings on this thread

Literally anarchy means without ruler.

So an anarchist is with a ruler or lord. A monarchist has one King or Queen.

Does Dr.Paul have or admit to having a ruler?

Free includes debt-free!

Enough sophistry, thanks. We

Enough sophistry, thanks. We both know Ron Paul, a long-time Federal Government employee and supporter of the Constitution, is a minarchist like Mises. The overwhelming weight of the evidence supports it. You can't possibly believe otherwise unless you are disingenuous. I don't address disingenuous argumentation tactics like you are trying to pull here.

Ventura 2012

I didn't expect you to dodge the question.

It's not sophistry, I am not trying to trick you.

I merely submitted literal translation of ancient Greek.

Instead the word Anarchist is being used as a label devoid of meaning to create a collective and condemn them as such.

The Amish accept no earthly ruler. Does this label apply to them?

Free includes debt-free!

While I agree that private

While I agree that private fire companies would operate less expensively than government fire departments in the cities and urban areas; however, most of us on the outer outskirts f the closest city utilize volunteer fire departments, and therefore, no fire department -which has to be paid for- will be as cheap as a vlunteer fire department.

As someone

who reads a considerable amount of austrian economics, I would greatly enjoy reading this study on anarcho-fire departments. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction.

I would also greatly enjoy reading about Ron Paul's agreement with anarchy, which is completely contradictory to his defense of the constitution.

Thank you in advance.

Read some Rothbard.

"As someone who reads a considerable amount of austrian economics, I would greatly enjoy reading this study on anarcho-fire departments. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction"

Doesn't sound like you've read enough of it.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Screw you and your chill pill phony.

You're lying two faced Anarchist who thinks he's "already living in Anarchy".

"I have only ONE question to those who believe in the "authority of the state"."

By the consent of the people and you've been overruled Anarchist. They want government, and your Anarchist utopia is WHY they want it. They can "think" just fine for themselves and know what kind of people they're surrounded by. They know Anarchism better than you because they aren't naive to the evil inside themselves or the people around them.

I know it sucks, the people no longer want liberty, but instead want slaves plunder and dominion, so that's what the people give their consent to pursue. That's what they unjustly want from their Constitutional Republic, and that's what they'll unjustly want from your Anarchist system. They are covetous people who prey on each other through violence.

At least with government, our elected representatives need to make that case in public, in the light of day, and I love watching looters trying to pretend they're serving justice. Notice how hard it's getting for them? They need to defend their action because without the consent of the people, they lose support and the only authority they have left is a gun. (enter the gun grabber) They can't get anything done, which is what you're now seeing, the collapse of consent.

In Anarchism, there will be no debate, and no need for consent, because you want a free market of violence with those who can buy the most muscle lording over the people serving their self interest.

YOU ARE A LIAR who wants a warlord economy, a free market of violence serving the principle of self interest, so don't try and tell people to "take a chill pill". I say it's time for people to get pissed and deal with you phonies and destroyers once and for all.