56 votes

Paper is Warning Americans of "anti-Federalists"!

A West Point think tank is warning Americans of an “anti-federalist” movement, which supports “civil activism, individual freedoms and self-government.”

This paper typically focuses on "al Qaeda and other Islamic extremists attempting to gain power in Asia, the Middle East and Africa through violence."

The report also draws a link between the mainstream conservative movement and the violent “far right,” and describes liberals as “future oriented” and conservatives as living in the past.

“While liberal worldviews are future- or progressive -oriented, conservative perspectives are more past-oriented, and in general, are interested in preserving the status quo.” the report says. “The far right represents a more extreme version of conservatism, as its political vision is usually justified by the aspiration to restore or preserve values and practices that are part of the idealized historical heritage of the nation or ethnic community.”

FULL ARTICLE HERE: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/17/west-point-c...



Trending on the Web

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

I'll be back

but wanted to throw this at you too: http://www.dailypaul.com/271468/revolutionary-japan-is-sudde... with link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_prit...

"We all watch with disbelief as China and Japan rattle sabres over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, so like the seemingly minor events that drew Europe's alliance systems into conflict from 1911 onwards."

I have eys that see but cannot see. I have ears that hear but cannot hear. It is too much to absorb, these current affairs. So, yes, I feel shocked and bewildered even though the handwriting is on the wall. It is still more than I can accept.

I have to run, but wanted to give you that link and quote. You may have already seen it, so if so, please forgive the redundance.

...

Few think like me.

Those who do are still not thinking like me on specific things.

I can agree with much of what is said by Gerald Celente, Alex Jones, Ron Paul, and Jesse Ventura, when listing the most notable current public access figures.

Note:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asKFlT2LQVY

Joe

Cutting to the Chase

is what you do!

"Instead of "fire on US citizens", can we realize, before it is too late, that those symbols are lies?

Why not know, instead, that the topic in view is murder?"
--------------------
"I'm telling you, bear, the World War III thing is the focus of destructive POWER at this time, and all these other things are distractions. "

Yes, and look at this: http://www.dailypaul.com/271666/turn-out-the-lights-the-part...

The Legal Criminals will be raiding that gold at some point in the future?
--------------------
"Waco happens every day, the names are different, the color of the skin is different."

Yes, I failed to see it that way.
------------------
"I think that our Military/Police/Citizens (same thing) will prove the point before We The People end up being either/or murdered or murderers."

I hope so, because I tend to think that we Americans may be being judged by God thru the principle of reaping and sowing for the evil we have allowed to take over our land and ruin the lives of innocents around the world. You see, I think if as America we had lived the Bible that some of our Founders had in sight the prosperity of this country would not be part and party to evil.

Proverbs 21:31 KJV
The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD.

I tend to think that if we do not turn to the Lord even those who want to protect will be unable to do so. Some people call this turning "revival."

2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
-----------------------
Thank you for your insight. As always it is appreciated!

...

Not sure

I don't know what the first link was all about since the picture of the woman distracted me to no end.

The comments were typically filtered with deception that almost completely destroys any accurate understanding - in my opinion.

"The Legal Criminals will be raiding that gold at some point in the future?

Gold is a very good way to store Purchasing Power but it is not a good currency compared to less costly forms of currency.

I can get almost anything shipped to me from almost anywhere in a week (small common goods) by clicking with my mouse - that is currency.

I can store a house worth of Gold in a small safe for safe keeping. How much does it cost me to keep criminals from stealing my house worth of Gold in my small safe?

How much does it cost me to keep the criminals from stealing my house?

The Criminals have badges now.

How much does it cost?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

It depends on who is answering the question.

"The Legal Criminals will be raiding that gold at some point in the future?"

That is the business they are in, so the answer is self-evident - in my opinion.

Yes.

The Legal Criminals will be raiding anything anyone earns in every way they can because that is their business and they are good at it.

"You see, I think if as America we had lived the Bible that some of our Founders had in sight the prosperity of this country would not be part and party to evil."

American Legal Criminals started their crime spree in 1788, the rest of The People are victims, the tally is accountable by people, and I am nearly certain that you are right about God having an accounting too - I'm not sure which way I'm going.

"I tend to think that if we do not turn to the Lord even those who want to protect will be unable to do so. Some people call this turning "revival.""

A function of power as a percentage or is it all or nothing?

"Thank you for your insight. As always it is appreciated!"

Thank you too, the journey continues!

Joe

Call me crazy

but I really thought that I read text on the OP. I don't think I ever went to that link...The OP was about the Chinese backing the Yuan with gold. Sorry to have distracted you with a link to a link with a picture.

I do not understand this question:

"A function of power as a percentage or is it all or nothing?"

China

++++++++++++++++
"I tend to think that if we do not turn to the Lord even those who want to protect will be unable to do so. Some people call this turning "revival.""

A function of power as a percentage or is it all or nothing?
++++++++++++++++

That then this:

________________
I do not understand this question:

"A function of power as a percentage or is it all or nothing?"
________________

You use the word "we" as in: "I tend to think that if we do not..."

If we do not, I ask, as a percentage of the whole, do this or that, or, on the other hand, if we do not, I ask, everyone at once without exception (all or nothing), do this or that, then...?

If we...

All of us or some of us and if some of us then how many of us?

If it must be all of us or nothing, then the bad ones RULE.

If the bad ones take over China, do to it what has been done in America, then we will be RULED by foreign criminals and the word "foreign" can be taken any way that works in reality.

Joe

We

That was one of the first lessons taught to me by Joe Kelley.

I am not careful with my words. I am careless with my words though I do not mean to be so.

To answer the question: "A function of power as a percentage or is it all or nothing?"

I must restate the Scripture:
• 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

It is not we, as in you, me, and everyone else. It is we as in we, Christians. So I should not have used the word we. The statement I should have used is:

I tend to think that if CHRISTIANS do not turn to the Lord even those who want to protect will be unable to do so. Some people call this turning "revival."

The verse is actually speaking to the Israelites. But Christians claim it as well because we are called by “His Name,” CHRISTians, or in otherwords “little Christs.”

Of course it wouldn’t hurt if we had sweeping revival thru our land whereby Christians get right with God and also those that do not know Christ come to know him.

The Amish do not vote. I asked them about it. They said they believe they will do more good by praying that day. I said something to the fact that one of our church members was going to pray while filling out their ballot so they would know who to select…I said I thought the person should know prior to filling out the ballot who they should select by studying the candidate. The Amish man indicated that there was a day when he though that praying to know was possible, but that we (used loosely) are so far from the Lord that we wouldn’t or can’t hear from the Lord. I don’t know if that makes sense to you, but what he was saying in effect that Christians are so far from the Lord and living holy lives that we don’t seek the Lord’s will as we should and go about it in a half-hearted manner. We do not truly “wait” to hear and maybe we can’t hear because there is sin in our lives that we take lightly. Josf, sin can be in the form of attitudes or negligence. Not just outward wrong doing like lying or stealing. I guess what I am saying is that Christians, ME, MYSELF, and I first and foremost need to weep, fast, and not get off my knees until all is right and that Christians, ME, MYSELF, and I should continue in that petition until God hears and turns the hearts of Americans toward Him. Churches are full of sin…in the form of materialism, hatred, envying’s, bitterness, unforgiveness, etc. People in churches need to get the sin out of their - ME MYSELF and I and everyone else that names the name of Christ – lives. It must be the most important and driving force. We, Christians, should not get off our knees until God has restored Goodness in America.

So, when you ask: "A function of power as a percentage or is it all or nothing?"

I would say that revival would be contagious and would spread. It would be an outpouring of the Spirit of God. It would spread like fire. What could be more important? Oh, well, going to Walmart, giving the dog a bath, cleaning the house, putting on makeup and fixing hair, washing the car, etc. etc. the mundane things of life and hidden sin are elevated above the dire need to have the Mercy of God fall upon our Nation and deliver us from evil: Legal Criminals and our own short comings. What is the cost of all the lies (I remember from the abyss)? A little sin affects everything.

Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

I know there is trouble with the Nation word, but we do have a consolidated government, like it or not, so as I see it I can use the word Nation even though it should be the States of America. Patrick Henry didn’t even use the word United:

“The question turns, sir, on that poor little thing the expression, We, the people, instead of the states, of America.”

So, I would say the answer to: "A function of power as a percentage or is it all or nothing?"

If God's Spirit falls, it will be contagious! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_revival but for the most part Christians are flippant with their commitment to the Lordship of Christ. We, Me are too busy to care to plead with God to send a Spiritual Awakening even though the circumstances are dire. For the most part we are more interested in being able to drive thru McDonalds and shop at Walmart. It may actually take catastrophe to run Christians to seek God. That truth can be seen in the history of Israel.

...

Due Dilligence

What you can't employ now with training and experience you can employ with due diligence, persistence, training, and experience.

Your answer dodges the question.

"It must be the most important and driving force. We, Christians, should not get off our knees until God has restored Goodness in America."

Is "it" a function of percentage or is "it" all or nothing?

I can avoid the feelings of jealousy as I am left out of the POWER that is then either/or good enough to restore "Goodness in America", and know that nothing I can do will add to or subtract from the POWER that is then either/or good enough to restore "Goodness in America", but the question remains to be the same question.

God is on the razor edge, the tipping point, and either/or, depending upon "it", God does, or does not, restore "Goodness in America".

I have no part in it, as I am not "it", since I am not Christian, and therefore whatever I do has no effect on the future one way or the other, I get that, loud and clear, but the question remains to be either/or answered instead of either/or unanswered.

Is "it" a function of percentage or is "it" all or none?

"It must be the most important and driving force."

Force can be converted to an accurate measure relative to POWER, such as kilowatt/hours.

If there could be a Smart Meter on this force that "must be the most important driving force", then "it" is watched by God and us, even us who are not Christians, and we can witness, if not participate, in the situation as "it" plays out, and we can, all of us, Christians and non-Christians, and God too, watch this POWER Struggle, as it either/or, reaches the level at which something significant happens or does not happen.

"We, Christians, should not get off our knees until God has restored Goodness in America."

Who is going to produce any food?

I am persistent for a reason.

I see contradictions.

Suppose everyone but me wakes up tomorrow morning as Christians and each one is working to be a better Christian than each other one, and none of your group is off their knees for the next month.

I am trying, I can tell you stories that you won't believe as to how I'm trying to hear God, and I'm failing, so I'm the one, so far, who does not wake up tomorrow morning, and I'm the one that, so far, is not on their knees all next month, persistently, trying to resolve this apparent contradiction to em.

All humanity except me, now Christians, as of tomorrow morning, only me left, and all next month, everyone but me, all on their knees, and that is the persistent question rephrased in a way that leaves no room for further non-answers (hopefully).

Does God say, nope, that one guy over there ruined "it" for all of you?

That would be 99.99999999999% "yea" and one "nay" and if God says, never mind, it is all or nothing, then the force is insufficient.

This:

"It must be the most important and driving force. We, Christians, should not get off our knees until God has restored Goodness in America."

If God says OK, the one guy not getting it is forgivable, here you go, you get "Goodness in America" after all, then there is a possibility that it can be 2 people who don't get it, or 4, or 16, or 256, or 65,536.

There is a possibility, theoretically, that I will get it by tomorrow morning, unless there are physical qualifications that keep me out of the group, or other things I don't know about that remove all possibility of me ever being in the group that constitutes this POWER that you measure as a force as in:

"It must be the most important and driving force."

If you were to hazard a guess could you guess at the current level of that force relative to the level you think that force should reach and can you hazard a guess as to how much time is left before there is no longer any hope for "Goodness in America"?

My thinking is such that there is a measurable increase in accurate perception, as more and more people are waking up into a world where their perceptions are willfully questioning the official lies that have previously been believed to be the truth without question.

I hope that the group can muster the required force in time.

I think that the group has mustered enough force to tip the balance.

I may be deluding myself.

+++++++++++++++++
So, when you ask: "A function of power as a percentage or is it all or nothing?"

I would say that revival would be contagious and would spread.
++++++++++++++++

I did not read ahead, so that is good news to me. My responses above that were me being me, being persistent, as I've trained myself to be, as I've gained a lot of experience in this thinking stuff - which may or may not be a good thing.

"It would be an outpouring of the Spirit of God. It would spread like fire. What could be more important?"

To me the concept of "importance" is based upon the concept of morality which is based upon the concept of life being good, and since I am human, then human life is good, and worth reproducing for as long as humanly possible: so nothing can be more important unless there is a better species to replace our failed one, and I'm not on that bus yet.

"Legal Criminals and our own short comings."

If you mean to say that Legal Criminals are your groups (Christians) short comings, then that is one thing, and another thing would be for you to mean that Legal Criminals are a shortcoming of mankind.

Either way I do not want to be in the "we" category. I am not a Legal Criminal, so pinning that on me, in any way, is unwarranted, a case of prejudice, a case where I am being held to account for the actions of other people, a case of me being guilty by false association, a case of me being punished with the often routine of collective punishment, which is what the Legal Criminals do, so again, I want no part of it, I don't invent it, I don't produce it, and I don't employ it, and even if I do slip up and parrot it, then I can at least admit my mistake and work to never let myself make that mistake again.

Collective punishment is a huge part of Legal Crime, a subset of the three routines:

1.
Deception upon the innocent.
2.
Threats of violence upon the innocent.
3.
Violence upon the innocent.

We went over this already, and that is why I'm very persistent with the case where you say The Word of God is such that God says kill those babies over there, and then some human says OK God, I'll get to it, and then there is a measurable case of collective punishment.

Babies are punished for having been born in the wrong place and the wrong time? What did the babies do to deserve to be murdered?

It makes no sense, unless again, there is something I don't know, which is certain, but you don't know either, other than trust in words conveyed to you, or anyone, through human beings controlled by God, as you say, or as is written in the book written by human beings controlled by God, or if I hazard a guess, then God is a participant in the process of Evolution and the babies are failed experiments in genetic make-up, so they have to go too: a bad seed scenario.

"What is the cost of all the lies (I remember from the abyss)? A little sin affects everything."

1. All or nothing (every Christian: I have nothing to do with it)

2. A percentage of the whole number of Christians (what is the measure of that force if so?)

3. If there is only 1 Christian left, then that is the whole of that number in that group (then it is go or no go depending upon the percentage of force relative to the whole number of human beings?)

I see contradictions again: as explained in number 3 above, since we non-Christians have nothing to do with this force, or, on the other hand our number relative to the number of Christians does tip the balance in some way.

"Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump."

How much is a little?

1 good person leeaveneth the whole lump?

1 bad person ends human kind forever?

Bread is a lump of something, sprinkle some weapons grade plutonium on top and what do you get?

Yellow cake?

"It may actually take catastrophe to run Christians to seek God. That truth can be seen in the history of Israel."

Here is where I see more contradiction. I can be wrong, of course. I am wrong, often. To get past the abuse of Legal Criminals, I see 3 things that can be done by anyone, including Christians who may or may not be on their knees.

1.
End the Fed
2.
End the IRS
3.
Bring the Troops Home (not in body bags, not to be targeted as terrorists, not to be left to commit suicide, not to be experimented on by Legal Criminals, but to start out in the day with less power and end the day with more productive power)

As to a version of History compared to another version of History, a competition of versions, I think it is important to measure one relative to the other, to see which appears to be more accurate, until a better (more accurate) one is produced by someone acting on their own will, or someone being controlled by God.

If I were to be able to understand how The Bible was written by God, as God controlled people in that writing, then I could read it. I have a huge problem here, since I do not read Hebrew.

Do I trust translators, and are they also controlled by God, according to the Hebrew symbols written by people controlled by God, or are the translators themselves controlled by God and their translations are in that way done according to God POWER - not human power.

1.
God made sure that the original Hebrew words foretold of efforts to translate into English, precisely, and those future translators would do it right, according to the Hebrew versions.

2.
God made sure that the translators mentioned, in English, that they, the translators, were being controlled by God and therefore not making any mistakes, or not twisting, or spinning, the information in such a way as to injure innocent people with such deceptions.

I persist because I don't know, and because persistence, in my case, is necessary in resolving important contradictions that confront my sense of importance.

Joe

You make my head spin

Lol

I am trying to figure out what happened to Linda Thompson (is she still alive?) and Waco over on that other post and you are asking me questions I don’t know the answer too: Specific answers to vague (in my mind) concepts.

First of all, I have been inspired in the past to ask you, do you not read all of my words before you start replying? Do you read 1 page or 1 sentence of a book and try to construct a whole book of words around that page or that sentence?

When I am writing, I am in someway building a thought and it takes all of my words to get the whole meaning of the thought I am trying ever so poorly to convey. I just want you to know, I read all of your words before I start typing. Then I reread as I type.

So, I am thinking that we got the “it” problem solved, and this is the first unresolved issue:

“To me the concept of "importance" is based upon the concept of morality which is based upon the concept of life being good, and since I am human, then human life is good, and worth reproducing for as long as humanly possible: so nothing can be more important unless there is a better species to replace our failed one, and I'm not on that bus yet.”

Having to do with: "It would be an outpouring of the Spirit of God. It would spread like fire. What could be more important?"

I was contrasting the casualness by which Christians approach the need for God to intervene in comparison with being too busy with the mundane/unimportant things of life.

Your concept of morality having to do with human life being good is different from my concept. I think that may be where we get out of sink. I think of morality as being holy like God is holy: Sinless perfection. Anything short of sinless perfection is unholy. Anything that is unholy is evil. So that is why I say man is evil. I do not mean that all man does is evil, what I mean is that man is not holy. Man is sinful. Man sins. We all sin. We are all unholy. We all take part in doing sin. We all take part in doing things that are evil. We take part in evil. Man is evil. Man is not Holy. Man is not God.

Man is incapable of being holy, but man is capable of being evil.
-------------------
The phrase: "Legal Criminals and our own short comings."

Is another contrast and comparison. The evil of the evil criminals that we, you and I speak of, and the short comings, the not so evil works of everyday people, you, me or specifically Christians.

Legal Criminals: Murder torture, etc.

Short Comings of people and/or Christians: materialism, hatred, envying’s, bitterness, unforgiveness, etc and worse things.

I am speaking in the sense that we would want the “Mercy of God fall upon our Nation and deliver us from evil: both that of Legal Criminals and our own short comings.” i.e. when we detest our own short comings, our own sin as much as we detest the sin of others, even if “their” sin is worse, then we understand the assault or affront of sin to a Holy God. It is then that we, I am talking about Christians, will see the mercy of God. I am not talking about Christians to leave you out, I am saying though that in the sense of repentance for revival you are not liable. However, in repentance for salvation you are liable for yourself. I am probably going to get in trouble with that liable word aren’t I. I mean responsible. As in:

• 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray , and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

God is talking to His people.

Here is an example from American History:
http://www.americanchristianhistory.com/ChristianHistory35.html
Please go to that link and read all of it. It is a short 1 page. It explains what I am talking about when I mean we, that can include you and everyone else, need to get right with God.

There is collective punishment and there is collective goodness:

• Matthew 5:45 KJV
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

God reigned hail fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah. There undoubtedly children there. God flooded the whole earth. Children were drowned by God. There are accounts of Israel being sieged and the people ate their own children. Those sieges by enemies were judgments of God because the people turned away from God and turned to worshipping idols. And yet, God sends the sun to shine and rain to give water on all humankind, no matter how good or bad they might be.
--------------------
As far as the Bible being written in Hebrew, yes. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament was written in Greek. The Bible is 66 separate books written by 40 different authors over a period of about 1500 years. It is all God breathed. The Bible has been painstakenly translated by people who were martyred for translating the Bible to the English Language. The Catholic church kept the scriptures locked up in the Latin Language so that the common people could not read or understand the words.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale “William Tyndale (sometimes spelled Tynsdale, Tindall, Tindill, Tyndall; c. 1492–1536) was an English scholar who became a leading figure in Protestant reform in the years leading up to his execution. He is well known for his translation of the Bible into English. He was influenced by the work of Desiderius Erasmus, who made the Greek New Testament available in Europe, and by Martin Luther.[1] While a number of partial and incomplete translations had been made from the seventh century onward, the grass-roots spread of Wycliffe's Bible resulted in a death sentence for any unlicensed possession of Scripture in English—even though all the major European languages had been translated and made available.[2][3] Tyndale's translation was the first English Bible to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, the first English one to take advantage of the printing press, and first of the new English Bibles of the Reformation. It was taken to be a direct challenge to the hegemony of both the Roman Catholic Church and English Laws to maintain church rulings. In 1530, Tyndale also wrote The Practyse of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's divorce on the grounds that it contravened Scripture… Eventually, Tyndale was betrayed by Henry Phillips to the imperial authorities,[23] seized in Antwerp in 1535 and held in the castle of Vilvoorde (Filford) near Brussels.[24] He was tried on a charge of heresy in 1536 and condemned to death, despite Thomas Cromwell's intercession on his behalf. Tyndale "was strangled to death while tied at the stake, and then his dead body was burned".[25] Tyndale's final words, spoken "at the stake with a fervent zeal, and a loud voice", were reported as "Lord! Open the King of England's eyes.”

“I persist because I don't know, and because persistence, in my case, is necessary in resolving important contradictions that confront my sense of importance.”

And that is good. But you have an English copy of the Bible and it was provided because a man was willing to risk his life so you would have it. I urge you, read it. What else could be more important? Human life? Your human eternity depends on it. As far as accuracy, I will say, if God can create the heavens and the earth and every living thing and can author the Hebrew and Greek Bibles as well as create the words in every language in the world, He can most certainly ensure that His Word is passed to us pure. The dead sea scrolls are a modern confirmation of that.

There is no magical recipe for revival. I don’t know what will happen to our country. There are people who seek God devoutly. I would not include myself in that group, even though I am a pastor’s wife. I have other concerns. I have priorities that are not right. I struggle, that being said, I am basically a good person. However, I find that I want to do what I want to do over what I might know I should do. There were men who wore out the floor boards next to their beds. There were men who asked to be lifted from their death bed so that they might pray. I know nothing of that in my life. The carpet is fine next to my be. Gee, I rarely even get on my knees...

...

Simulating conversation

"First of all, I have been inspired in the past to ask you, do you not read all of my words before you start replying? Do you read 1 page or 1 sentence of a book and try to construct a whole book of words around that page or that sentence?"

I've described how I read and respond in Forum Discussions before, and so my assumption (probably wrong), is that I have describe this to you too. I read as far as I can and then when I feel the need to respond I stop reading and I respond before reading the rest of the latest offering in discussion. I think this way that I do things is good for somethings, not so good for other things, and I call this way that I do this with the label Simulating Conversation.

I but in, I cut off your monologue, and I blurt out a response, and a good thing about this is that it is educational concerning how sometimes I am very wrong about what I am reading, and other times I get the message right away: to be confirmed as I read on.

"When I am writing, I am in someway building a thought and it takes all of my words to get the whole meaning of the thought I am trying ever so poorly to convey. I just want you to know, I read all of your words before I start typing. Then I reread as I type."

Sometimes I read all of your words, and I have no response, and I don't respond until later, or not at all. We do things differently which is not a surprise to me, and it may be a good thing (blessing?).

"Your concept of morality having to do with human life being good is different from my concept. I think that may be where we get out of sink."

I cut that off, like holding my hand up to you in conversation, asking you (actually telling you since this is not a conversation person to person in real time, this only simulates one), asking you to stop while I address how that sentence affects my perspective.

"Your concept of morality having to do with human life being good is different from my concept. I think that may be where we get out of sink."

My thinking is trained to work along a specific pattern based upon one measurable truth, then obvious best guesses which can be considered truth, and then on and on from that one foundation of fact, through best guesses, and onward into more complicated matters.

I do not think like anyone else I know. I do think consistently the same way over and over and over again, and from this very diligent method of thinking, over time, I can gauge my "feelings" as being separate from my thinking. I don't know if you understand these words. I know that very few people get a fraction of the distance you have moved toward being able to discuss (compare perspectives) with me. How odd can I get?

You have no idea how your offerings in discussion affect me compared to how long I've been unable to discuss what we have already discussed, and to me we are scratching on the surface of a snow flake on top of an iceberg.

"Your concept of morality having to do with human life being good is different from my concept. I think that may be where we get out of sink."

All things being relative the measure of our two perspectives being out of sink can be considered very much out of sink on one end of the scale to almost in harmony but missing a few fractions of a wave length.

I hope to hear, in the rest of your response, how you perceive morality having to do with human life being good.

"I think of morality as being holy like God is holy: Sinless perfection."

I have to hold up my hand again, well I don't have to, no one is forcing me to hold up my hand, but my sense of morality automatically reverts back to the murdered babies as soon as I read your sentence quoted above, and there is no way I'm going to be able to abdicate, robotically, any sense of morality that murders babies, a force would have to take over me, consume me, and I would no longer be the me I am right now, for that to happen.

"Sinless perfection."

Murder babies.

That does not compute.

"Anything that is unholy is evil. So that is why I say man is evil."

If God does it, or makes one human being do it, it is Holy, and if any man does something on his own, it is evil by definition?

I can offer, again, that I am wrong, certainly, but a human brain, if I am not mistaken, works with switches, and therefore a human brain is either one or zero, on or off, and so reason (not intuition) requires that things add up: 1 plus 1 equals 2, etc.

If you are speaking about intuition, belief, trust, instinct, whatever is the force at work that your perspective is based upon, then there is no reason to offer reasons for it. You have this immeasurable (reasonable) POWER to trust/believe/know/be guided by God, as you see it = perceive.

If on the other hand there is reason, then we aught to be able to reason it out, not requiring any belief on either of our parts, it is reasonable, and there it is, separate from us, it is reasoned like having one apple placed next to another apple and knowing, by reason, that there are 2 apples separate from us two.

"I think of morality as being holy like God is holy: Sinless perfection. Anything short of sinless perfection is unholy. Anything that is unholy is evil. So that is why I say man is evil."

Take that apart please:

"God is holy"

What does that mean?

We have arrived at a point where God orders the murder of babies. God does it, so it is by definition Holy. The murder of babies is sinless perfection, so long as God does it, or so long as someone ordered by God does it, and they obey without question, or they question, but not enough to stop them, they obey, and then the babies are murdered by someone, and in that case the murder of babies is a case of sinless perfection almost, but not quite, because only God is Holy.

God is holy: meaning do as I say not as a I do type holy?

What is holy?

Wait for orders and then obey those orders without question?

Again, if it is unreasonable, if it is a power that is not tied down with reason, then that is one thing. If it is going to be reasoned out, then an obvious question is "What is holy?"

"Anything short of sinless perfection is unholy."

If it is not an unreasonable POWER that takes over someone, rendering someone a drone, or a puppet, being forced by God to do things, then a person is then self POWERED by something. If it is instinct then a person will defend themselves in some way, without thinking, or a person will suddenly move out of the way as a knife slices at someone, barely missing someone. If a person has time to see, to think, and then to act willfully, then calculations are made with the brain, ones and zeros, reasons, perceptions, reactions (not willful), actions (willful), and all done by self propulsion, self-evident, self-powered, individual, autonomous, actions.

"Anything short of sinless perfection is unholy."

I acted immediately, and my actions were nearly sinless, by some means other than reason, because I had no time to think, I had to act immediately.

I acted willfully, and my actions were designed by me to be nearly sinless, and I used whatever power I could find, in time, before I had to act, eventually.

What POWER do I use in any case whatsoever, to act closer to an ideal and further away from evil?

Murder those babies Joe.

No, sorry, that is unreasonable, and as far as I know there is no power in me to do so without thinking.

"Man is incapable of being holy, but man is capable of being evil."

By that reasoning, and again that is separate from some other power at work, other than reason, but by that reasoning there isn't any sense in working to do something that is impossible to do, so why try?

Why try what?

What is holy?

If it can't be measured, then reason isn't going to work well in answering the question: what is holy?

• 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray , and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

You are not getting in trouble as far as I am concerned. The battle to do good things and avoid doing bad things is driven by some power.

What is holy?

Baby murder

If that is the case then I'm out for sure. I won't be holy. I don't think I have it in me to be holy.

If baby murder isn't holy, then it isn't.

If baby murder is only holy when God, or God's helpers, do it, then anything can be holy, anything at all.

Wipe out the human race, it is holy.

There is the button.

Send every soul into the lake of fire, that is holy.

I don't know. I'm using reason. If baby murder is holy, then what is the definition of holy?

Holy is what God says, and that is it.

That is not reason, that is something else, so why spend another minute, wasted, on willful employment of human power to accomplish the impossible?

If it is not possible, then it isn't possible. If it is possible, then what is it?

What is holy?

Baby murder.

Am I beating a dead horse?

At least I'm not beating babies to death.

I'm typing.

Relatively speaking, trying to be reasonable, if I were on my knees praying, instead of typing, fewer babies will be murdered?

I'd have to abandon reason for me to start in that direction. How long on my knees will work. Is it constant? If I start now I can save 100 babies before I die on my knees for lack of water? My wife might arrive and stick a tube in my arm to keep me hydrated while I save babies; another tube for food.

If I pray harder more babies are saved. If I last longer more babies are saved.

"God is talking to His people."

That was this:

• 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray , and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

So I'm jealous again.

"Please go to that link and read all of it. It is a short 1 page. It explains what I am talking about when I mean we, that can include you and everyone else, need to get right with God."

I can sink all day working on this path of trying to save babies the Christian way. I don't think we are communicating well, and you have identified a very significant founding point that clearly separates our perspectives at the root of our thinking (reason).

For me to get right with God, whatever that means, I have to accept that right is baby murder. I can't do that, it makes no sense to me, my brain is getting in the way.

"There is collective punishment and there is collective goodness:"

There is where my brain gets in the way again. "Collective Punishment" is a false front, a lie, it is invented by criminals, and they paint up their crimes with any color, and false flag, any false front, any lie, any disguise, any way, that works to divert attention away from them, the criminals, so as to keep the victims powerless and incapable of defense.

I'll read on to see what Matthew has to say:

• Matthew 5:45 KJV
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Again, reason, getting in the way, the concept of natural law appears to make sense to me, as natural forces (God forces) occur, such as a flood, and a storm, and a super nova, and living things are created, and living things are destroyed. No matter how much I may want human beings to survive for a long as possible, the fact that Earth will not last forever ensures, logically, that human beings have to either learn how to colonize other planets, or perish with the Earth.

That has little to do with murdering babies, unless, again, reason getting in the way, God is working the process called Evolution, and therefore those "bad seeds" have to be culled from the herd, and there can be no more of those genetic experiments working to "spoil the brew".

God, the holy Evolutionist, gets rid of the genetic mutations that are undesirable, but baby murderers who follow orders without question are among the desired genetic makeup orders ordered by God to carry on, according to the plan.

Again, reason getting in the way, and I'm not working to make your head spin, or my own, but reason works reasonably, or the discussion can end on blind obedience to whatever Power is handed to Christians and kept from me. I don't have it. I try to get it. It does not arrive, so far.

As to translating God's word. If God is what I think God is then God is not speaking in human languages, what would be the point? If God is as you say, then I am left out, and I am incapable of knowing God without either God's personal help, or my dependence upon human beings for their evil help, or their help that isn't evil when God is pulling their strings. If that sounds like me attacking your perspective, then it is not my intention, my intention is to know better.

My reasoned out concept of morality is based upon the fact that life exists, and human life in particular exists, and if there is a life form that can exist on other planets, moving to other planets from Earth, then that is good, by that reason, so why not go that way, why not move from Earth to another planet?

Your reasoning, as far as I can tell, is that the definition of good is only what God says it is, at any given moment, and man is bad, or evil, so it makes sense, to me, in that context, by that reasoning, that God aught to wipe out this poor excuse for life, and start over, or give up.

I don't know. My head isn't spinning. I'm relying upon reason.

"And that is good. But you have an English copy of the Bible and it was provided because a man was willing to risk his life so you would have it. I urge you, read it."

My daughter inherited a sewing machine that I am charged with the duty to fix it. I may be able to do so. I may not.

I've read parts of the Bible. Which version? Which text? When I get to the baby murder parts, I put it down. I'm not on that bus.

Willful, purposeful, premeditated, reasoned, murder of babies.

I'm not saying that there aren't any very important things to know written in many religious books, and many religious books agree on many things that reason out to be good.

What is holy?

What is good?

I'm asking.

I get that men are bad.

All.

Genetics?

Does it say in the Bible that God created the process of evolution and at times God places his thumb on the scale?

Hey, you, yes you, go over there, and get rid of that genetic mutation, it isn't working for me.

"There is no magical recipe for revival. I don’t know what will happen to our country. There are people who seek God devoutly. I would not include myself in that group, even though I am a pastor’s wife. I have other concerns. I have priorities that are not right. I struggle, that being said, I am basically a good person."

My hand is up again. I see contradiction again. Man is bad. Where did I read that?

"Your concept of morality having to do with human life being good is different from my concept. I think that may be where we get out of sink. I think of morality as being holy like God is holy: Sinless perfection. Anything short of sinless perfection is unholy. Anything that is unholy is evil. So that is why I say man is evil."

There it is, and as you have repeated: "Cutting to the chase."

"I am basically a good person."
"I say man is evil."

"I am basically a good person."
"I say man is evil."

I willfully work toward perpetuating life as a general rule. Do no harm. If I make errors I can recognize those errors, failure to recognize errors is an error, and I can avoid repeating errors: reasonably.

I say that there are Legal Criminals among us, and it is past time to stop paying them so well for injuring so many innocent people.

God is a fact.

I do not see any contradiction in that fact.

But those places where I see contradiction, reasonably, I think it is important to get help resolving them.

I've been working to pray, to ask Jesus, to ask God, for help.

I get this:

God (as far as I can tell based upon non-reason):

"Joe, you want my help, then you have to help other people, and if you really help them, then you have to actually listen to what they have to say."

I'm not told, in any way, to be Christian. You don't even tell me.

I do read The Bible, rarely, but I've read a whole lot of scripture since meeting you, relative to how much Bible reading I've done, and my guess is that the copy of The Bible I have is not the one your group sanctions, so I may be getting the version that is spun, or inaccurate, for some reason.

In order for me to feel right, about myself, reasonably, I see a need to read some of the text offered by you, to me, in those links.

Here:

http://www.americanchristianhistory.com/ChristianHistory35.html

Editing will have to wait

"arm of flesh,"

I listened to (read) the link that includes George Washington as a "Founding Father", and my understanding is such that George Washington is a False Front, a "patriot" of dubious authority, myth, legend, a cover story, a "Federalist", and from then on it was hard to read the work.

What does "arm of flesh" mean?

Does it mean the power commanded by human beings?

Don't trust the power commanded by human beings, in particular, for example, the power commanded by false flag human beings like George Washington the turn coat, Red Coat, hiding behind a false Blue Coat?

In relative comparison to God all other powers can't measure up?

So why try to do something that is impossible?

What is possible?

1.
End the FED

That is not tough to do, and in fact The FED is being ended and a replacement will be "better" than The FED, better for Legal Criminals.

Why not replace the FED with something better for everyone except those who earn their lives through crimes that include baby murder for fun and profit?

2.
End the IRS

That is almost the same problem and solution as replacing The FED with something better for everyone instead of replacing The FED with something better for only a few of the worst human beings ever to pollute the human gene pool. Those who control the money, forcing everyone to use ONE, make debtors (victims) of everyone but a few of the worse people imaginable, and they aim to collect their money; so why not compete with accurate money instead?

3.
Bring the Troops Home (look in the mirror)

Joe

On Topic

West Point

I find it concerning that they do "studies" on American citizens. I suppose those things should not shock me, but the do. Who paid for the study? Tax dollars?

The other thing I think of is how in Nazi Germany Hitler purged the "congress" and that happened in Spain also. Political leaders are actually removed from office and imprisoned. I often wonder if that will happen here.